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Old 01-20-2018, 11:51 AM   #21
FredWolfLeonardo
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The only time I found OT shredder sympathetic was in Turtles Forever when he fought against Utrom Shredder alongside the turtles to save the multiverse.

Ch'rell's relationship with Karai came off as somewhat sympathetic to me as well.
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 01-20-2018, 03:53 PM   #22
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Off the top of my head... agree with OT Baxter. OT and 2003 Rat King probably too... he never asked to be what he was, be it an experiment or just some guy that wasn't right in he head, even if it made him bad. Maybe OT Slash for similar reasons.

2012 Baxter maybe a tiny bit. 2003 however, hell no; too evil at heart, he deserved whatever he got.
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Old 01-20-2018, 03:58 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo View Post
The only time I found OT shredder sympathetic was in Turtles Forever when he fought against Utrom Shredder alongside the turtles to save the multiverse.

Ch'rell's relationship with Karai came off as somewhat sympathetic to me as well.
I would argue that Shredder came off as more of a pathetic character than a sympathetic one in Turtles Forever. Crucial difference.
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Old 01-20-2018, 04:44 PM   #24
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For most of the movie yes, he was shown to be utterly pathetic, as were almost all the Original Cartoon characters in that film.

However, Original Cartoon Shredder (and Krang) saw Ch'rell's attempt at destroying the multi-verse to be too insane (even by their standards) and showed some humanity.

Despite being out of character since Shredder and Krang had no problem with destroying the world in The Old Toon and the Nick crossovers, that moment did come off as sympathetic.

Another moment of Original Cartoon Shredder being somewhat sympathetic came to my mind when I remembered how he was in season 8 and 10. A lot more vicious and serious, but also very close to Krang rather than always arguing with him. He even gave his own blood to save Krang who was drained by Dregg.
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.

Last edited by FredWolfLeonardo; 01-20-2018 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 01-20-2018, 06:54 PM   #25
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Most sympathetic: Karai, having a sad excuse of a father like Shredder. This applies to 2k3 & Nick version.

Least sympathetic: Timothy/Mutagen Man from Nick TMNT. Good riddance he's dead - so annoying and pathetic.
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Old 01-20-2018, 06:58 PM   #26
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FW Bebop and Rocksteady. They're hard to hate, really. They're a comedic duo.

I wouldn't really call FW Baxter sympathetic... but I do pity him.

Chrell was the first one I thought for least sympathetic. Dregg also wasn't sympathetic at all.

As for one-shot villains... that guy who wanted to turn the Turtles into wax in the FW series. Couldn't stand that guy.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:31 PM   #27
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I wouldn't really call FW Baxter sympathetic... but I do pity him.
Out of curiosity why would't you call FW Baxter sympathetic
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:43 PM   #28
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The only time I found OT shredder sympathetic was in Turtles Forever when he fought against Utrom Shredder alongside the turtles to save the multiverse.

Ch'rell's relationship with Karai came off as somewhat sympathetic to me as well.
I do not think Ch'rell cares about Karai and sees her as anything but a tool, he tried to kill her when she stopped him from killing Leo and was willing to let her die when he tried to destroy the multiverse.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:58 PM   #29
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I do not think Ch'rell cares about Karai and sees her as anything but a tool, he tried to kill her when she stopped him from killing Leo and was willing to let her die when he tried to destroy the multiverse.
True, Ch'rell may have raised Karai and all, but he was pretty ruthless and uncaring overall. I find Nick Shredder to be much more sympathetic when it came to his relationship with Karai.
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:05 PM   #30
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I personally think that Karai should have been his Achilles Heel. It would at least give him at least a bit more dimension and potentially raise questions about his full backstory even if it was never going to be fully explained.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:44 PM   #31
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Out of curiosity why would't you call FW Baxter sympathetic
He was a bad guy right from the start. The only episode where you could say otherwise was his debut episode.
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:30 PM   #32
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He was a bad guy right from the start. The only episode where you could say otherwise was his debut episode.
I mean if he was good in his debut episode that means he wasn't a bad guy from the start.
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Old 01-21-2018, 02:39 AM   #33
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Monroe Q. Flem

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As for one-shot villains... that guy who wanted to turn the Turtles into wax in the FW series. Couldn't stand that guy.
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Old 01-21-2018, 02:43 AM   #34
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Monroe Q. Flem
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:54 AM   #35
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A name! It has a name!
Not the best episode, but I at least liked the design of his robots once the wax melted.
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Because of continuity and timeline errors, I've given up writing fanfiction based on the 1987-1996 animated television series. Instead, I'm trying to reboot the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles story, something many other fanfiction writers alredy do:

Hopefully, stories will later appear at

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/968367/O...NT-Cartoon-Fan
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Old 01-21-2018, 10:35 AM   #36
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OT Shredder did eventually get very sympathetic and not just when he saved Krang. I remember a very brief moment in Turtle Trek where it looked like Shredder actually had genuine remorse for Leonardo almost being crushed in that factory; almost like a "What have I become?" moment. I also figured that also explained why they made no attempt to return to Earth in Season 9 and 10 other than being kidnapped by Dregg.

Human Baxter had pretty much gone insane after his first appearance so maybe his fate as a fly was good for him. You do feel bad for him because he never gets that chance to be human. On the other side of the coin, he'd still be looking at serious jail time if he did get demutated and captured.

Flem... now there was a character. It was rare to see another villain (even a one or two shot) on the syndicated episodes and this guy was something else. He was indeed annoying, but it was a refreshing concept nonetheless. I even brought him back in a fanfic to create the series' answer to Mekaturtle from the first NES game.
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Old 01-21-2018, 11:00 AM   #37
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remember a very brief moment in Turtle Trek where it looked like Shredder actually had genuine remorse for Leonardo almost being crushed in that factory; almost like a "What have I become?" moment.
Me too, I am also intrigued by that moment. I wonder if the writers/animators made it happen on purpose or was it just a mistake? Either way, its surreal how for a moment he looks sad as Leonardo is abou to get crushed then after he is saved, goes back to being evil.
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 01-21-2018, 01:02 PM   #38
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OT Baxter definitely has huge sympathy points.

All he wanted was to help his city with a severe pest problem, and that got him rejected, pushed around, and mutated into a monster.
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Old 01-21-2018, 01:12 PM   #39
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mutated into a monster.
I think it was just a way of writing him out of the series in a time of censors.
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Because of continuity and timeline errors, I've given up writing fanfiction based on the 1987-1996 animated television series. Instead, I'm trying to reboot the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles story, something many other fanfiction writers alredy do:

Hopefully, stories will later appear at

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/968367/O...NT-Cartoon-Fan
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:39 PM   #40
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I'd say the most sympathetic villain was Baxter...somehow...
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