The Quartering critisizes IDW Turtles

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FsoQ...662c/giphy.gif

You want Kevin to clear that up for you?

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

What are you talking about? Bobby Curnow doesn't get to tell us if Mirage TMNT was created to be a parody or not.

What makes you qualified? Fans have a special kind of blindness, I suppose.

Originally Posted by Bobby Curnow

I don't recall ever saying TMNT was a parody. Certainly doesn't sound like something i'd say or reflect my thoughts. Or that we had to mutate Jennika. That's just something Tom wanted to do and went ahead and did with the rest of our blessing.

Can we get an official comment then?

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Igglet

You honestly shouldn't waste braincells even thinking about TheQuartering's opinion. He just pretends to be outraged by everything for views.

His video showed a number of incorrect statements. As far as I'm aware while the IDW comic doesn't do fantastic sales it still does pretty well compared to others.

Originally Posted by Bobby Curnow

I don't want to speak for Tom. But my personal answer would be that there's no reason not to and it's important for different people to be able see themselves represented in their favorite media. If you can do that in a natural way that works in the story, then everyone wins in my personal opinion.

Now, maybe some would say it doesn't work for the story and that it feels forced... that's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I know we took steps to make Jennika a fully-realized character before the mutation so in my mind it works as a surprise twist for her that opens up more story potential.

Thanks for the clarification. While you're here do you know the contact email to ask about reprints? I know you don't handle that part of IDW so just wondered who to ask.

[Kamekichi]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

It's pretty simple.

We asked Kevin: "Hey Kevin, is or was TMNT a parody?"

Kevin: "No."

We asked Peter: "Hey Peter, is or was TMNT a parody?"

Peter: "No."

Case closed. But people still like to often pretend the opposite, and/or call them liars.

The 1985 Comic's Interview with Pete and Kevin both have them acknowledge TMNT was a parody of how comic were at that time.

They go on to say how it's not a direct parody of any particular comics just the elements from Ronin, Cerebus, Daredevil with the humor that this serious story was being done with turtles.



And to make it more official this screenshot comes from Kevin's site.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by Kamekichi

The 1985 Comic's Interview with Pete and Kevin both have them acknowledge TMNT was a parody of how comic were at that time.

They go on to say how it's not a direct parody of any particular comics just the elements from Ronin, Cerebus, Daredevil with the humor that this serious story was being done with turtles.

https://i.imgur.com/gQ2b6jy.png

And to make it more official this screenshot comes from Kevin's site.

Thanks for pulling this up. I didn't have the time to go searching my boxes to find proof, but also thought none was really needed.
Perhaps the point of contention was that it wasn't a parody of any one comic, but comics in general.

[Kamekichi]

Originally Posted by TommyT

Thanks for pulling this up. I didn't have the time to go searching my boxes to find proof, but also thought none was really needed.
Perhaps the point of contention was that it wasn't a parody of any one comic, but comics in general.

I just felt it best to point out that it is not the interviewer putting the word parody out there, it is in fact Peter Laird himself calling the series a parody. Whether it is a parody of a specific comic, comic genre, or just elements of comics in the '80s is another thing.

More recently:
2019 interview with Kevin using parody to describe the creation.

2014 interview with Kevin

What I'm most interested in are these interviews when they said that they were not parodies at all...

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by Kamekichi

I just felt it best to point out that it is not the interviewer putting the word parody out there, it is in fact Peter Laird himself calling the series a parody. Whether it is a parody of a specific comic, comic genre, or just elements of comics in the '80s is another thing.

More recently:
2019 interview with Kevin using parody to describe the creation.

2014 interview with Kevin

What I'm most interested in are these interviews when they said that they were not parodies at all...

Maybe, it’s difficult for lifelong fanboys to admit when they are wrong, and instead they choose to double down on incorrect assumptions. Imagine being wrong about a fundamental fanboy fact. Sad!

[Cloudrunner]

Originally Posted by Bobby Curnow

I don't want to speak for Tom. But my personal answer would be that there's no reason not to and it's important for different people to be able see themselves represented in their favorite media. If you can do that in a natural way that works in the story, then everyone wins in my personal opinion.

Now, maybe some would say it doesn't work for the story and that it feels forced... that's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I know we took steps to make Jennika a fully-realized character before the mutation so in my mind it works as a surprise twist for her that opens up more story potential.

Most of the time, when people (myself included) complain about stuff like this, it's because they're altering an existing character to fit some new progressive theme or taking the character in name only and applying it to some completely new unrelated character. What you guys have done is neither of those things. You created a new character, who fits in the lore, who has a reason to exist alongside the turtles. She's not a Mary Sue, she's not some race/gender/sexuality swap. She's her own character.

You all did everything right in Jennika's creation. If people still want to complain about it... well then there's no pleasing them.

[TommyT]

Jennika won’t last, anymore than dead Donatello did. I doubt they’ll kill her off, but she’ll be gone in 20 issues or less.

IDW is bleeding, badly. Expect all the stunts, in quick succession.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by TommyT

Expect all the stunts, in quick succession.

They're called story beats, actually. Y'know, just like "climate change" is really called seasons by people old enough to not be surprised by them.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

They're called story beats, actually. Y'know, just like "climate change" is really called seasons by people old enough to not be surprised by them.

I’m not opposed to the character, but the fact remains that IDW is a sinking ship. The female turtle/fifth turtle is scraping the bottom of the proverbial barrel, but in other respects, a hail mary.

I’d hazard a guess that Laird is not pleased with this move, but then again, maybe the resident experts here would know better.

[ChosenOne]

What makes you think of it as a sinking ship? IDW TMNT is only now getting to that point in any ongoing series where it can tell its best and most intricate stories atop the foundation of its own continuity. It's never been as exciting.

[Dejablue]

Originally Posted by Whatswiththeheadbands?

So as someone has never read the IDW, largely because it came out when i lost interest in the franchise and when I got back into it, it had a large number of issues that I couldn't catch up with.

I heard about Jennika a few days after the initial issue came out. I started thinking it was a bad idea, but after reading her backstory and seeing her design, I liked the idea. She doesn't look female. She looks like a Mutant Turtle. The other four don't look overly male, so why does Jennika need to look overly female?

Also, due to her backstory, the idea of her wearing clothes is perfectly fine.

The idea that people are calling this 'SJW pandering' is pathetic really. They wanted to make a female Turtle, and they did. Not because of an agenda, but because they wanted to

Lol I'm just coming back to say I agree with this post. So far at least I think Jennika is being handled mostly okay as the dreaded "5th Turtle."

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

What makes you think of it as a sinking ship? IDW TMNT is only now getting to that point in any ongoing series where it can tell its best and most intricate stories atop the foundation of its own continuity. It's never been as exciting.

“IDW Media Holdings, the parent company of IDW Publishing, continues to lose money, their latest financial report for Q3 2019 reveals. IDWM reported over $1.5 million in losses for the period from May 1st to July 31st, listed in the opening statement of the press release as “a net loss per share of ($0.20) on revenue of $11.5 million.

In Q2 2019, IDW Media Holdings lost $3.7 million dollars, leading one large investor, ADW Capital, to call for a sale of the company and IDW to engage J.P. Morgan Chase to evaluate the prospect of taking on a “strategic partner.” However, IDW was able to raise $23 million by selling more Class B stock to existing investors, though the largest buyer of said stock was Howard Jonas himself.

At press time, IDW could not be reached for comment.”

[ChosenOne]

As I understand it, the entire comic industry is facing a downturn at the moment. Why should IDW be any different? Doesn't seem like a cause for alarm.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

As I understand it, the entire comic industry is facing a downturn at the moment. Why should IDW be any different? Doesn't seem like a cause for alarm.

That was 2017/2018.

The industry is healthy again, with sales up for most high profile books.
I’ve supported the argument. IDW is losing millions quarter over quarter. You could try googling it for yourself, if you still feel you need further proof that a FEMALE 5th TURTLE isn’t a stunt.

Especially given it will be helmed by a trans woman. How much more headline grabby could it get? Laird has a blog post about how cheap he feels the idea is, but I don’t feel it’s worth linking.

The Quartering, as loathsome as he is, has a point.

[ChosenOne]

Laird's distaste for the concept of a female turtle is hardly breaking news, and certainly not originated by Jennika. We'll just have to wait and see.

Originally Posted by TommyT

Especially given it will be helmed by a trans woman.

I fail to see the relevance of this point to the discussion. She's not allowed to write female characters now? Dude...

[Candy Kappa]

Sophie Campbell is more then qualified to write Ninja Turtles

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Laird's distaste for the concept of a female turtle is hardly breaking news, and certainly not originated by Jennika. We'll just have to wait and see.



I fail to see the relevance of this point to the discussion. She's not allowed to write female characters now? Dude...

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Sophie Campbell is more then qualified to write Ninja Turtles

Of course. Is that what I wrote?
Its headline grabbing clickbait. Sophie taking control alone is not something to talk about, Sophie taking control with a new character that she created that was sort of her personal avatar and is the 5th female turtle...

I mean, it’s a swissarmy knife of clickiness. This is man bites dog, to spike sales.

[ChosenOne]

Sorry, I don't see it that way. You're glossing over the fact that all big developments in comics (such as Donnie's death, Splinter taking over the Foot Clan, etc) are meant to attract the public's attention, and that the concept of a female turtle was around long before Sophie, not to mention she didn't have as much of a hand in making Turtle!Jennika canon as you seem to think. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Sorry, I don't see it that way. You're glossing over the fact that all big developments in comics (such as Donnie's death, Splinter taking over the Foot Clan, etc) are meant to attract the public's attention, and that the concept of a female turtle was around long before Sophie, not to mention she didn't have as much of a hand in making Turtle!Jennika canon as you seem to think. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Are you serious? Tom Waltz published his correspondence with her about his plans, asking her to design the character!

How blind are you? You’ve argued that IDW isn’t sinking, but the news is the opposite, now Sophie didn’t get tapped to create Jennika? Do your research, please.