Bebop & Rocksteady pre-mutation - First Look

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Xav

True, but I think building an army of teenage runaways is still a more plausible plan than releasing toxic gas from the top of a skyscraper and selling people a cure made from mutant blood.

And such an edgier concept. The first tmnt film may have created my favorite interpretation of Shredder and The Foot.

[Coola Yagami]

Well to be fair, only Donnie got the shaft. Mikey was still the silliest one, Raph was the hothead, Leo was the more serious one and devoted to Splinter. Don... he was Mikey's buddy basically.

Shredder was aight. He was already running the city with a crimewave, robbing it blind. He was basically kinda sorta like the Kingpin. He didn't need a 'master plan' cause he was already in charge and running things.

[Myko]

The totally reduced scope of the 1990 film is an element that makes it better. Not everything has to be end of the world type of things, and I prefer when the Turtles themselves (mutations) are the only supernatural element.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Myko

The totally reduced scope of the 1990 film is an element that makes it better. Not everything has to be end of the world type of things, and I prefer when the Turtles themselves (mutations) are the only supernatural element.

That's kind of boring to me, I like it better when they added all the fantastical stuff. TMNT to me is scifi, but with the martial arts elements

[Yabuturtle]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

That's kind of boring to me, I like it better when they added all the fantastical stuff. TMNT to me is scifi, but with the martial arts elements

Lots of their enemies include mutants and aliens so to take that out would eliminate over half of the villain roster. I don't mind if they fight mutants, demons, aliens, ect. as long as it's entertaining.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by Matt2310

whats the point in being a fan if your just going to bash every new idea they come out with?

Alternately: what's the point of being a fan if you're just going to support anything with the name attached to it?

The reason so many fans hate this movie is because it doesn't live up to the qualities of the story or the characters and concepts that have been established time and again. It doesn't have to be the "same" as what's come before, but it does have to come from an understanding and respect of the core concepts, characters, themes and story that made the property so beloved for 30 years. BayTurtles didn't do any of that.

[Yabuturtle]

Originally Posted by Bry

Alternately: what's the point of being a fan if you're just going to support anything with the name attached to it?

The reason so many fans hate this movie is because it doesn't live up to the qualities of the story or the characters and concepts that have been established time and again. It doesn't have to be the "same" as what's come before, but it does have to come from an understanding and respect of the core concepts, characters, themes and story that made the property so beloved for 30 years. BayTurtles didn't do any of that.

Sometimes fans will just whine when even the slightest change is made which is beyond asinine. Changes will be made. They have to be made and I am willing to accept changes and even like some as some changes can be improvements. But it gets bad when the changes either make the series almost unrecognizable or the changes don't make sense.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Bry

Alternately: what's the point of being a fan if you're just going to support anything with the name attached to it?

The reason so many fans hate this movie is because it doesn't live up to the qualities of the story or the characters and concepts that have been established time and again. It doesn't have to be the "same" as what's come before, but it does have to come from an understanding and respect of the core concepts, characters, themes and story that made the property so beloved for 30 years. BayTurtles didn't do any of that.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

Sometimes fans will just whine when even the slightest change is made which is beyond asinine. Changes will be made. They have to be made and I am willing to accept changes and even like some as some changes can be improvements. But it gets bad when the changes either make the series almost unrecognizable or the changes don't make sense.

The same can be said about the Marvel movies, They make major changes in order for things to work in the MCU, Just cause its in the comics, May not translate well in live action.

[TurtleTitan97]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

The same can be said about the Marvel movies, They make major changes in order for things to work in the MCU, Just cause its in the comics, May not translate well in live action.

I think you're missing the fact that literally every MCU film so far has been more well received than the PD TMNT film could ever hope to be. The same goes for DC films.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by TurtleTitan97

I think you're missing the fact that literally every MCU film so far has been more well received than the PD TMNT film could ever hope to be. The same goes for DC films.

And also that the MCU movies kept the heart of the characters and their stories intact. They update and streamline many elements of those stories, yes, but they're still remarkably true to the well-established versions of those characters and their backstories while also making them accessible to a (much) wider audience. Marvel Studios knows how to walk that line. Platinum Dunes tends to vomit all over it.

Originally Posted by Powder

http://realfoodforlife.com/wp-conten...ith-plants.jpg

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

Sometimes fans will just whine when even the slightest change is made which is beyond asinine. Changes will be made. They have to be made and I am willing to accept changes and even like some as some changes can be improvements. But it gets bad when the changes either make the series almost unrecognizable or the changes don't make sense.

Yeah, proper changes that make sense I can deal with. (i.e. they put a little clothing on them; I'm not personally too bothered by that. It's real life NYC, at the very least footwear makes sense.) Stupid changes that shouldn't even have been bothered with or skimped on the foundation of TMNT... no. >.>

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

It's a guy with a purple Mohawk. He looked silly back then and he looks silly now. Even if it was in the 80s it would still look silly. Because it's a guy with a purple Mohawk.

As I said, there's no pleasing people. You try to stick with the original look and people will say it's cheesy and outdated. You change it, and people whine that he doesn't look like the original.

No one is complaining that Bebop and Rocksteady's pre-mutation costume doesn't look like the original but that it's badly executed.

I'm something of a traditionalist when it comes to adapting my favorite franchises. More often than not I think the whole idea that a certain things don't translate well to live action is used as an excuse not to even try.

However I know the certain things from comic books don't always translate to live action but that means a film maker has to work at it. This execution looks lazy and poor and not accurate to the animates series at all - I mean in the series Bebops's mohawk was supposed to be real, he and Rocksteady were supposed to be real punkers but these look like two guys in a bad cosplay outfits and sadly I think there's more than an outside chance that's exactly what they are in the story.

Regardless of that one of the (admittedly many) problems with the last movie was the sense of cognitive dissonance

I didn't think Heath Ledger's Joker was going to be good. I didn't think it was a good choice to have Heath play Joker, I didn't care for the design ect. but it actually turned out to be good. In some ways it was better than Jack's version of the Joker, despite being nothing like the comic book version.

A lot of people throw out examples of casting choices that fans thought were bad but turned out well like Heath Ledger as the Joker or Michael Keaton as Batman but these are generally exceptions to the rule.

Bare in mind that once people saw a little of Heath Ledger in his outfit and heard more about his take on the character it eased a lot of fans tensions and Tim Burton put out an early teaser that not only allayed fan concerns about Keaton's casting but also about whether the movie was going to be a complete camp-fest.

Platinum Dunes TMNT series has never done this. Their strategy has been to hide as much as possible, deflection and outright lying and a bizarre mixture of imploring us to trust them with no reason to and at times attempting to shame us for not taking them at their word.

Being different doesn't mean it's going to suck. Speculation is the only thing we can do until it comes out.

Actually I'm coming around to the idea that in this context being different means it's going to suck.

Comic book movies are experiencing a renaissance at the moment and the most well received ones like the original Iron Man, Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Batman Begins are very faithful to the comics. Even the ones that don't adapt specific stories draw a lot from the comics to generally good affect.

But why?

It's that the comics and animated series and so forth these characters have been featured in have done the legwork for them.

Change is vital for a property to sustain itself for decades whether it's through taking characters in a new direction or through a process of retconning or rebooting aspects. Sometimes these changes are popular and are added to the canon or largely discarded. It's through that process of trial and error we get a continually evolving picture of what works and what doesn't for these characters. The movies already have their blueprint all they have to do is follow it.

You may ask why doesn't this process extend to the movies themselves? In principal there's no reason why it shouldn't...but more people watch movies of a franchise than will ever watch an episode of an animated series or read a comic on which it's based on which is why fans place such an importance on them.

From a commercial standpoint why would a studio risk so much on some freaky alternate version when they know what works well? It's only the aforementioned excuse that "it doesn't translate well to a movie" that holds this back and the current comic movie landscape continues to devalue that idea. That's not to say that a director can't come along with a unique vision for the characters or an objectively good idea never found in the various material but no one making TMNT had a unique vision and things like Splinter learning ninjutsu from a book is hardly a good idea.

[TurtleTitan97]

Originally Posted by Bry

And also that the MCU movies kept the heart of the characters and their stories intact. They update and streamline many elements of those stories, yes, but they're still remarkably true to the well-established versions of those characters and their backstories while also making them accessible to a (much) wider audience. Marvel Studios knows

^ THIS.

PD TMNT didn't do that sort of thing at all. It made changes just simply for the sake of change. And in the end those changes did more to hurt the film than help it. I mean for goodness sakes, this film ripped off so much from The Amazing Spider-Man films that it was laughable.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Galactus

That's not to say that a director can't come along with a unique vision for the characters or an objectively good idea never found in the various material but no one making TMNT had a unique vision and things like Splinter learning ninjutsu from a book is hardly a good idea.

Fully agree. Clever, good (even brilliant) new ideas are welcome. Ninja books, etc however aren't so much ideas as they are just lazy shortcuts that feel a bit insulting to one's intelligence.

If you're going to change something or bring in a new idea, then have a great reason for it to happen and summon up the personal talent and enough film making brilliance to have me walking out of there thinking it was a great idea to incorporate into TMNT. Rather than leaving me feeling like you really just didn't want to bother with a part, esp a foundational part of the franchise, and cut corners as closely as you could. (i.e. If 2014 started off with TMNT as, say, adults and it's now years later post-Shredder and the film came up with an original new enemy... that would work fine if done in a good way. And saved them the trouble and criticism of rebooting or disregarding the foundational stuff.)

Honestly, if the film makers would listen and pay attention to what people are saying, TMNT could potentially be a learning experience in their quality of film making for that genre IF they could find the will to resist digging their heels in.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Fully agree. Clever, good (even brilliant) new ideas are welcome. Ninja books, etc however aren't so much ideas as they are just lazy shortcuts that feel a bit insulting to one's intelligence.

Examples of brilliant new ideas?

Old Hob
Agent Bishop
Hun
Karai as Splinter's biological daughter

Examples of insulting idiocy some defenders try to pass off as new ideas?

Splinter learning ninjitsu from a book
Shredder and Splinter not knowing each other

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Examples of insulting idiocy some defenders try to pass off as new ideas?

Splinter learning ninjitsu from a book
Shredder and Splinter not knowing each other

Don't forget hogosha April as the center of everything.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Don't forget hogosha April as the center of everything.

April as the center of everything could have worked; Platinum Dunes just screwed it up.

After all, April working at the lab where the Turtles and Splinter were created/mutated is lifted directly from the IDW comics, and it works perfectly there.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Splinter learning ninjitsu from a book
Shredder and Splinter not knowing each other

You know you suck when the Fred Wolf cartoon adapted the source material way better than you.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

You know you suck when the Fred Wolf cartoon adapted the source material way better than you.

Wamp wamp WAAAAAAAMP.

Also, yes.