Downfall of the original Playmates toy line (80s and 90s kids)

[I Crave Pizza No More]

Originally Posted by wpugh2424

Do they collect all the individual prints? Any missing? I see some on the amazon site and if they are complete I may start to buy them to give them a try. I have read almost every TMNT comic and need some more to read

Are crossovers in this saga collection?

So, there are some standalone books that aren't part of the actual Usagi chronology. For instance, there is a book that collects all of the TMNT/Usagi crossovers. And the Legends Saga collects other stories that weren't part of the main narrative, including Space Usagi. But otherwise, if you start with Saga 1 you'll get all of the Usagi stuff published by Dark Horse comics, which has been Usagi's home for most of its run.

The only hiccup might be with the stuff than released before Dark Horse took over, since Usagi started out on Fantagraphic Books, and then continued with Mirage for a short time. It's possible that those stories have been packaged as part of the Saga collection, but I'm not sure--since I already had them when I really dove into Usagi a few years ago, I didn't buy them again (if they were re-released, that is).

EDIT: Yes, those original stories have been collected and republished: https://smile.amazon.com/Usagi-Yojim...+fantagraphics

[wpugh2424]

Originally Posted by I Crave Pizza No More

So, there are some standalone books that aren't part of the actual Usagi chronology. For instance, there is a book that collects all of the TMNT/Usagi crossovers. And the Legends Saga collects other stories that weren't part of the main narrative, including Space Usagi. But otherwise, if you start with Saga 1 you'll get all of the Usagi stuff published by Dark Horse comics, which has been Usagi's home for most of its run.

The only hiccup might be with the stuff than released before Dark Horse took over, since Usagi started out on Fantagraphic Books, and then continued with Mirage for a short time. It's possible that those stories have been packaged as part of the Saga collection, but I'm not sure--since I already had them when I really dove into Usagi a few years ago, I didn't buy them again (if they were re-released, that is).

EDIT: Yes, those original stories have been collected and republished: https://smile.amazon.com/Usagi-Yojim...+fantagraphics

would you recommend this in the link over the other saga set you mentioned if I wanna dive into the majority? it would be cheaper overall I do believe

[I Crave Pizza No More]

Originally Posted by wpugh2424

would you recommend this in the link over the other saga set you mentioned if I wanna dive into the majority? it would be cheaper overall I do believe

I think this set is where you'd start, and then you'd move on to Usagi Saga #1. Pretty sure that's the natural progression. That's also likely the cheapest way to catch up on the series. The linked book is like 1000 pages (the table of contents shows up to 423, but the description says it's over 1000 pages and encompasses all of the Fantagraphics publications), and each of the Saga books is about 600 pages.

[wpugh2424]

Cool
I’ll try this link u gave me and then move to the saga sets

[mikey0]

Perhaps another problem with the original line was that there not many amazingly innovative and well-made action figures being produced in the late 1980s to base a new set of items off of.

You can look at everything Playmates sold from 1988 to 1994 or so and see the influence other toy lines had on the creators then.

Soft Heads - Masters of the Universe
Gags,Jokes, and Crazy Weapons - G.I. Joe Battle Gear Accessory Packs
Retromutagen Ooze - Mattel Slime
Wacky Action set - Masters of the Universe
Mini Inserts (pop-up displays) - Masters of the Universe
Giant Turtles - Star Wars
Mega Mutants - Masters of the Universe
Sidekick Buddy figurines - The Real Ghostbusters/Thundercats
Misc. Variant Spin-off Lines - Barbie/Masters of the Universe/G.I. Joe
Talkin’ Turtles - Toy Biz Marvel Superheroes line
Mutations/ Road Ready Mutations/ Auto Mutations/ Mighty Mutations - Transformers
Cave Turtles - Dino Riders
Practice Pals - Tonka Wrestling Buddies
Toon Turtles - Kenner Police Academy
Turtle Trolls - Assorted Troll dolls
Star Trek - The Playmates Star Trek line
Mini Mutants - Polly Pocket/Micro Machines

It’s a real shame the Sewer Playset was not as expansive as the Matchbox Pee Wee’s Playhouse playset from the very late 1980s. The playsets for the original toyline could have been worse, I suppose. The 1990 Technodrome was not as high as the 1978 Kenner Death Star Space Station or the 1986 Kenner The Real Ghostbusters Fire House Headquarters, but it was heaps better than the 1989 Toy Biz Batcave, 1990 Mattel Nordor playset for He-Man, and the 1991 Kenner Swamp Thing Swamp Trap.

The original toyline is a lot harder to revisit than the first Mattel Masters of the Universe toyline because it went in so many different directions from the end of the late 80s into the 90s. Playmates should have stayed with the formula it had for the line initially from mid ‘88 to the spring of ‘89. I feel like the bulkier, overly cartoony, colorful, and gimmicky figures (i.e. - Ray Filet) took more away from the line than the first set of Wacky Action figures and Ace Duck. The original line had to come into its own as a ‘90s toyline somehow though. With the exception of a few figures from that fourth basic assortment (i.e.- Fugitoid, Panda Khan, and Triceraton), most of the 1990 figures made the late 80s ones stand out more in my eyes.

[I Crave Pizza No More]

Originally Posted by mikey0

Soft Heads - Masters of the Universe

I think a lot of toys besides MOTU had soft heads. Pretty sure Rambo and Chuck Norris figures both did, and I had some kind of Spider-Man who did, too. So, I don't think this was Playmates not having their own ideas as much as it was that they were following general practice within the industry.

Originally Posted by mikey0

Mini Mutants - Polly Pocket/Micro Machines

Don't forget about Mighty Max, which was pretty popular there for awhile.

Originally Posted by mikey0

Playmates should have stayed with the formula it had for the line initially from mid ‘88 to the spring of ‘89. I feel like the bulkier, overly cartoony, colorful, and gimmicky figures (i.e. - Ray Filet) took more away from the line than the first set of Wacky Action figures and Ace Duck. The original line had to come into its own as a ‘90s toyline somehow though. With the exception of a few figures from that fourth basic assortment (i.e.- Fugitoid, Panda Khan, and Triceraton), most of the 1990 figures made the late 80s ones stand out more in my eyes.

While I'll agree that figures like Slash and Triceraton are all-time classics, I also loved figures like Ray Fillet and Chrome Dome. And as I've said, I have a real soft spot for the rock n roll TMNT and the Mutant Military figures. I think it was later on that some of the desperation showed, when we got stuff like the Pizza Tossin' turtles and to some extent the Mutations figures.

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by I Crave Pizza No More

I think it was later on that some of the desperation showed, when we got stuff like the Pizza Tossin' turtles and to some extent the Mutations figures.

To this very day, my cousin prefers the 1986 Kenner The Real Ghostbusters line to the original 1988 Playmates line because the makers of The Real Ghostbusters toyline knew when to quit. The 1986 The Real Ghostbusters toyline holds up better today because most of the human figures were in-scale with each other, the ideas were fun and unique to the line (you could the Gulper Ghost trying to munch on Egon’s head), and the larger stuff (i.e.- Ecto 1, Ecto 1A, and Fire House Headquarters) was all visually appealing. The downfall of The Real Ghostbusters line happened in the late ‘80s with the Fright Features, Screaming Heroes, and Monsters set, but even those did not take away too much from how amazing the Kenner line was. The 1988 Fright Features Ray Stanz (the version of Ray with the Ecto Goggles) was a welcome addition to the collections of many children of the 1980s. The 1989 Screaming Heroes Peter Venkman even came with a ghost trap accessory. The Kenner The Real Ghostbusters line jumped back from the shark, too, in the early ‘90s with assortments like the Power Pack Heroes, Slimed Heroes, and Ecto Glow Heroes. By then, it was too late. The Real Ghostbusters cartoon and second Ghostbusters movie never warranted attention from children of the time the way the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles syndicated cartoon and the first two live-action movies did. I mean, there were two Topps wax pack trading card sets for the weekday Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Fred Wolf cartoon that were released in two different years!

The foreign released promotional poster catalogs and other advertising for the 1986 Kenner The Real Ghostbusters toyline also made the Kenner line a delight for children of the 80s and early 90s to collect. It’s truly sad that an action figure line that started out alright in the 80s like the original Playmates one is known today for the oddities that no child wanted back then. Playmates should have stuck to releasing turtle variants like the Wacky Action sets rather than costumed Turtles. One disguised turtle per basic wave might have been fine if the ensemble stemmed from the cartoon, Mirage comic book, or Archie comic book universe like Undercover Donatello and Leo, the Sewer Samurai. Figures like Mike, the Sewer Surfer and Raph, the Space Cadet were not moving from shelves quickly enough for there to be a Skateboardin’ Mike and Make My Day Leo in the last basic figure wave of 1991. In Playmates’ defense, they had to pander to fans of the cartoon, the Archie adaption, retailers, and the Mirage comics. Whereas, Kenner was looking to reach children of the ‘80s exclusively with its 1986 The Real Ghostbusters line. Kenner really lucked up because some moviegoers who loved the 1984 Ghostbusters film wanted a few of characters from the first case like Stay Puft Marshmallow Man and Slimer (Green Ghost) also.

I find that when it comes to the original 1988 Playmates Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles line, there are collectors in different camps from one another. There are those who own the ‘88 to ‘90 sets. And there are those with everything from ‘88 to ‘93 on display in their rooms. Others have anything they could get from ‘88 to ‘96 or so. I have noticed in recent times that toy collectors and designers stop talking about the original Playmates line when they get to 1995 releases. I guess you can say the ideas from late ‘94 to ‘97 were so off the wall that discussions about them are best left in the 1990s.

I think the original Playmates toyline ultimately suffered because it could not come up to the time. In the 80s, 3.5 inch figures were ditched for 5 inchers. While 5 inch figures were still the items to grab in the early ‘90s, I believe there was this hidden inclination within older collectors that things were not going to stay that way for the rest of the decade. Obviously, the big change came when Kyoryu Sentai Zyuranger was adapted into Mighty Morphin’ Power Rangers. First, Bandai launched a set of 8 inch Rangers and Space Aliens. After the show took off and became a craze in the spring of ‘94, the 6 inch Auto Morphin’ Rangers were sold in stores. Many of the MMPR knock-offs had toy lines in that scale as well. So, the 8 inch and 6 inch action figures of the mid to late ‘90s into the 2000s made the popular toys of 1990 like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Micro Machines, and Koosh balls obsolete.

Frankly, I thought the original Playmates toyline was totally in dire straits in the spring of 1993 when the sleeker and well-sculpted at times 5-inch Toy Biz The Uncanny X-Men toy line was all of the rage. I felt the Toy Biz The Uncanny X-Men, X-Force, and X-Men lines were everything the 1988 original Playmates toyline should have been. There is no debating that more allies and foes over silly variants is how the first Turtles toyline should have looked. Then again, nothing stays on top forever. Playmates should have thrown in the towel after the third live-action film bombed in theaters. The Super Mario franchise coincidentally took a big fall that year after their live-action movie was a failure. In other words, it was time for children of the 90s to move on to properties that made their debut in the 90s by the last months of 1993.

[DonnieLaForge]

I love most of the entire original line. Being ridiculous is kind of the point for me, and when they went ridiculous they at least put all the effort they could into the sculpts, the marketing copy, etc.

The endless turtle variants of the 2012 line were largely boring, with the notable exceptions of the LARPs & Mystics. The endless turtle variants of the original line were visually interesting if nothing else. I have been enjoying re-collecting them in my adult years. The only figures from the later years I have no true interest in at all are the Krackin' Eggs and the Power Coils. I wasn't too thrilled about the Ninja Actions either, but I have them. Those series are not visually interesting in that they are closer to the original designs with only mechanical gimmicks added in and sharing much of the same sculpt per character. The Undercover series fits this bill as well...

Still...I grew up with TMNT perfectly timed to my age. For me there is no other vintage line first and foremost worth completing. I loved Ghostbusters before turtles at a younger age and would love to recollect some of those too but the variants of that line do not interest me and turn me off, unlike the original line turtle variants.

I laid in bed at night dreaming of owning every single TMNT figure, checking off everything on those card backs...the toon, the movies, novelizations, graphic adaptations, trading cards, misc junk, figures, all of it was my obsession from the moment it hit UNTIL...

Growing up. It hits most of us. That stage where life becomes a bit bigger than our bedroom playtime and sleepovers at friends'. IMO that is the simple truth which all kid-targeted properties face, which kills or puts on hiatus all toy lines. Nothing can last forever because people change and big business tries to change with them.

I lost interest in TMNT simply because I lost interest in most everything at that age. I was 7 in 1988, and 14 in 1995. You can do the math...girls, school, extracurriculars, life goals began to take over right when TMNT died, for an entire generation. Those who were babies when my contemporaries discovered TMNT found Power Rangers as their own call to action, which I never found interest in whatsoever. For them, TMNT was their RGB and MMPR was their TMNT.

If I had stayed a kid forever, then I like to think old school TMNT would have lasted forever. Alas. Now as an adult whose love of toys resurged with a vengeance...those were my golden years, and the entire original line my golden grail.

Here's to hoping the 2012 toon found itself it's own generation to inspire. The out of control merchandising we endured over the last decade surely suggests it did. It paid proper homage and tribute to the original line in nearly every way, both regarding the toon and the toys, and for that it caught me up in its nostalgic whirlwind and I collected that line to completion because finally as an adult I had the resources to do it!

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by DonnieLaForge

I love most of the entire original line. Being ridiculous is kind of the point for me, and when they went ridiculous they at least put all the effort they could into the sculpts, the marketing copy, etc.

The endless turtle variants of the 2012 line were largely boring, with the notable exceptions of the LARPs & Mystics. The endless turtle variants of the original line were visually interesting if nothing else. I have been enjoying re-collecting them in my adult years. The only figures from the later years I have no true interest in at all are the Krackin' Eggs and the Power Coils. I wasn't too thrilled about the Ninja Actions either, but I have them. Those series are not visually interesting in that they are closer to the original designs with only mechanical gimmicks added in and sharing much of the same sculpt per character. The Undercover series fits this bill as well...

Still...I grew up with TMNT perfectly timed to my age. For me there is no other vintage line first and foremost worth completing. I loved Ghostbusters before turtles at a younger age and would love to recollect some of those too but the variants of that line do not interest me and turn me off, unlike the original line turtle variants.

I laid in bed at night dreaming of owning every single TMNT figure, checking off everything on those card backs...the toon, the movies, novelizations, graphic adaptations, trading cards, misc junk, figures, all of it was my obsession from the moment it hit UNTIL...

Growing up. It hits most of us. That stage where life becomes a bit bigger than our bedroom playtime and sleepovers at friends'. IMO that is the simple truth which all kid-targeted properties face, which kills or puts on hiatus all toy lines. Nothing can last forever because people change and big business tries to change with them.

I lost interest in TMNT simply because I lost interest in most everything at that age. I was 7 in 1988, and 14 in 1995. You can do the math...girls, school, extracurriculars, life goals began to take over right when TMNT died, for an entire generation. Those who were babies when my contemporaries discovered TMNT found Power Rangers as their own call to action, which I never found interest in whatsoever. For them, TMNT was their RGB and MMPR was their TMNT.

If I had stayed a kid forever, then I like to think old school TMNT would have lasted forever. Alas. Now as an adult whose love of toys resurged with a vengeance...those were my golden years, and the entire original line my golden grail.

Here's to hoping the 2012 toon found itself it's own generation to inspire. The out of control merchandising we endured over the last decade surely suggests it did. It paid proper homage and tribute to the original line in nearly every way, both regarding the toon and the toys, and for that it caught me up in its nostalgic whirlwind and I collected that line to completion because finally as an adult I had the resources to do it!

I was a baby when the original cartoon debuted and was also a good age for MMPR and Pokemon,but TMNT had staying power that the other two did not. What is RGB? I thought He-Man was the phenomenon ahead of TMNT?

It is disappointing that the line focused on odd themed TMNT subsets and did not get some characters from the original show made into a toy instead. I would have liked to have seen the Galaxons, Beserko,Titanus, Krakus, Rex-1, Dirk Savage, etc.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

It is disappointing that the line focused on odd themed TMNT subsets and did not get some characters from the original show made into a toy instead.

How about Dregg and his goons? They were the main villains for the two final seasons, and no toys.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

How about Dregg and his goons? They were the main villains for the two final seasons, and no toys.

Oh, yeah. I just listed a few that I would would have liked. There was also Lotus Blossom, Tempestra, Shreeka ( not enough female characters), heck even Landor and Merrick as you mentioned late series characters.

I was surprised that the trio of Neutrinos and the three coworkers of April, Irma, Vernon, and Burne made into the line as Toon. Why did Burne have that stupid napkin attached to his shoe? Is he supposed to be a slob? Okay, now I am nitpicking.

[DonnieLaForge]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

What is RGB? I thought He-Man was the phenomenon ahead of TMNT?

Real Ghostbusters. It went MOTU, Transformers, Thundercats, RGB, TMNT as far as toon release dates.... I was too young to latch onto the first three that hard, they were out there and I was aware of them and the toys were interesting but the toons weren't that interesting to a toddler...but I did latch onto RGB before TMNT both toon and toywise.

I think you can probably estimate the age of most TMNT fans to the year if you know their biggest pre-TMNT passion.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by DonnieLaForge

Real Ghostbusters. It went MOTU, Transformers, Thundercats, RGB, TMNT as far as toon release dates.... I was too young to latch onto the first three that hard, they were out there and I was aware of them and the toys were interesting but the toons weren't that interesting to a toddler...but I did latch onto RGB before TMNT both toon and toywise.

I think you can probably estimate the age of most TMNT fans to the year if you know their biggest pre-TMNT passion.

Haha. I was the perfect age for all 3 90s' fads, only the first one stuck with me. The other two did in a nostalgia sense alone. I always thought it was He-Man on top before the TMNT were the It thing. Maybe He-Man then Transformers or the two shared the crown,but it was before my time. Did Pokemon have a successor fad?

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I was a baby when the original cartoon debuted and was also a good age for MMPR and Pokemon,but TMNT had staying power that the other two did not. What is RGB? I thought He-Man was the phenomenon ahead of TMNT?

It is disappointing that the line focused on odd themed TMNT subsets and did not get some characters from the original show made into a toy instead. I would have liked to have seen the Galaxons, Beserko,Titanus, Krakus, Rex-1, Dirk Savage, etc.

RGB is the acronym for The Real Ghostbusters. The Kenner The Real Ghostbusters action figures and role-playing gear (especially the Proton Pack) was a big seller for the Christmas season of 1988. The Real Ghostbusters line was quite popular until the summer of 1989. During that summer, Tim Burton’s Batman did better than Ghostbusters 2 in theaters, the Fred Wolf TMNT cartoon was discovered by more children of the late 1980s, and the Nintendo Game Boy came to US markets. Not to mention, miscellaneous Tyco R/C cars were gaining a lot of attention. The Real Ghostbusters cartoon had been on for almost three years by that summer and the late 1980s were coming to a close.

In hindsight, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles variant subsets could have been much better than they were. The Sewer Sports All Stars should have been a Kenner Starting Lineup crossover like the Turtle Trolls were for Treasure Trolls and the Star Trek TMNT were for the 1992 Playmates Star Trek line. The Mutant Military stuff should have reminded us of the 1982 Hasbro G.I. Joe line, also. And it does not need to be said that the actual original Playmates TMNT toyline commercials were losing people when the Fred Wolf cartoon segments were switched out for hilariously bad Coming Out of Their Shells costumed turtle pitchmen from the fall of ‘91 to 1993 or so.

The first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles flick being a smash box office hit did not help matters any at all, either. The reason the reissues of the ‘88 figures did so well in 1990 was because the Movie Star subline was not made yet. After the first sequel did well for three weeks, the onus was really on Playmates to make molds that closely resembled the characters from that movie. The problem was Playmates was already catering to fans of different forms of TMNT media. Tokka and Rhazar did not appeal to the children of the late ‘80s and very early ‘90s who loved Bebop and Rocksteady. So, Playmates Toys were starting to lose collectors they had from the late ‘80s with the selection that was stores in the autumn of 1991.

Like I said in an earlier post, the original toyline suffered from not knowing what it wanted to be. Were the figures being made to coincide with the Fred Wolf show exclusively? If so, what were mutants from other comic book series like Panda Khan and Usagi Yojimbo doing in the basic assortments? Was it a toyline for Mirage Comics fans? Fugitoid was never in any episode of the 1987 Fred Wolf series. What was Fugitoid doing in the fifth basic wave? Then, there were standard wave variants of favorites from past cases like Space Usagi. Was Playmates giving us a small glimpse into the future of the Stan Sakai Usagi universe by including Space Usagi with the other basic figures in late ‘91 or was the figure made because Usagi leaped through dimensional portals in the syndicated FW cartoon episodes he was in?

There was too much to keep up with for the original Playmates line from the fall of 1991 to 1996 or so. It tried to be too many things all at once to please different types of people.

The Galaxons, Killer Pizza aliens, Beserko,Titanus, Krakus, Rex-1, and Dirk Savage were all like Skeletor’s Robot Knights from the 1983 Masters of the Universe cartoon. Those animated extras of the FW shows were never important to the cartoon like General Traag, Zak, the Neutrino and Genghis Frog were.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Irma, Vernon, and Burne.

A Channel 6 playset would also have been nice. And the news helicopter (to place on the Channel 6 rooftop.)

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Did Pokemon have a successor fad?

The POG Milk Cap and Slammers game.

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

A Channel 6 playset would also have been nice. And the news helicopter (to place on the Channel 6 rooftop.)

That would have made the already waning original toyline into a Mattel The Simpsons or Kenner Police Academy like action figure line. I’m sorry, but bad business move. The 1993 Channel 6 Newsvan and Toon Turtles subline was more than enough. The Channel 6 news crew figures were peg warmers at drugstore chains like Rock Bottom for years.

[Discogod]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Haha. I was the perfect age for all 3 90s' fads, only the first one stuck with me. The other two did in a nostalgia sense alone. I always thought it was He-Man on top before the TMNT were the It thing. Maybe He-Man then Transformers or the two shared the crown,but it was before my time. Did Pokemon have a successor fad?

For me, it was MOTU from around '83 - '85 (with Star Wars before that), then Transformers took over. Around '87 it was M.A.S.K. and RGB before I discovered TMNT in mid-'89.

[mikey0]

The first three waves of the original Playmates toy line were near perfect. I did not like the usage of bright colors for the 1990 basic figures and individual card art, even at the time. Playmates should have stuck with the dark theme to everything they released in the late ‘80s. As a toyline, the original Playmates toys were in a league of their own. The action figure line was better in the beginning when Playmates Toys borrowed heavily from the successful 3.5 and 5 inch Reagan ‘80s toylines before it. The 1990 basic assortment was really the borderline between when it was a good up and coming toyline for the ‘90s and when the stocks for Playmates began falling. The take it or leave it point of the original TMNT toy series, if you will.

The Best figures of 1990 to me: Fugitoid, Triceraton, Panda Khan, Sword Slicin’ Leonardo, Don, the undercover turtle, Leo, the Sewer Samurai

The worst of the 1990 batch for me: Napoleon Bonafrog, Storage Shell Donatello, Mike the Sewer Surfer, Raph, the Space Cadet, Creepy Crawlin Splinter, Slice N’ Dice Shredder, Mondo Gecko, Scumbug, Pizzaface, Mutagen man

The eh from me: Muckman, Wingnut, and Slash

The toys of 1990 that looked better as prototypes on the cardbacks: Mondo Gecko (it should have been smaller with less clashing bright colors and stickers)

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Oh, yeah. I just listed a few that I would would have liked.

How about Big Louie? My favourite gangster in the series.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

How about Big Louie? My favourite gangster in the series.

He is my favorite overall gangster aside from Kingpin. One of the TMNT characters with the biggest untapped potential.