Splinter as a rat or as Hamato Yoshi?

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Logan

Rat. I just have qualms with him mimicking martial arts in pre-mutated form. I'd prefer that part be scrubbed from the origin or at least retconned in some way.

There's no way to retcon any existing universes this way, but I always thought it would be cool to have Yoshi survive the night Shredder kills Shen and, using his connections as a Guardian, mutate Splinter purposefully.

Then have Yoshi train him, and them battling the Foot for a few years until Shredder finally kills Yoshi. THEN the turtles are mutated (either accidentally or as a result of Splinter's actions).

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by pferreira

I only chose Hamato Yoshi as turning into the rat because it gave him a character goal for the Fred Wolf series. A shame then by Splinter No More they got rid of that. But I think it gives Ninja Turtles an interesting goal to push towards.

The first videogame also had him mutating back by the end.

[IndigoErth]

On the topic of how the mutagen has been made to work, as mentioned by previous commenters...

Now see, personally that has never bothered me, the whole "turning humans into animals" thing, as I'd always simply dismissed any largely socialized mentality of humans being some other different thing with the fact that humans are still just one of many existing species, equally vulnerable to it, and the mutagen simply has the ability to change a creature and give them some of the traits of another species. And could in theory include a cross that doesn't even include human...

(Which come to think of it could actually get really interesting and drive some weird 80s/90s style toy concepts. i.e. Someone's dog came into contact with the mutagen somehow, but its last contact was with the same family's cat. o.O It's only those who mix with human who luck out in gaining human intelligence and personhood.)

Now... the part I take issue with is when they just start letting it bring to life inanimate objects. As much as I loved the design of the Speed Demon car Nick came out with and still want a toy of it (with opening mouth/hood), the mutagen factor... just no.

edit: Though that also gives me issue with Ice Cream Kitty. Love the character and tend to just give it a pass, but the turning into the ice cream she ingested... eh. Really, her last contact was with Mikey, which could have been far stranger.

[HeroTurtlesFan]

Definitely Hamato Yoshi.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by HeroTurtlesFan

Definitely Hamato Yoshi.

It seems to at least be the most popular version.

[Yabuturtle]

Seems to make more sense form Yoshi to be the rat. No ran can copy martial arts moves, which suggests that rat was already mutated in some way, shape or form. I sometimes speculated that rat was one of the rats from Nihm from The Secret of Nihm. Would explain how he was so intelligent enough to copy moves.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

The first videogame also had him mutating back by the end.

Does it? Yeah you're right. I meant the cartoon though.

[Utrommaniac]

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

Seems to make more sense form Yoshi to be the rat. No rat can copy martial arts moves, which suggests that rat was already mutated in some way, shape or form. I sometimes speculated that rat was one of the rats from Nihm from The Secret of Nihm. Would explain how he was so intelligent enough to copy moves.

Come to think of it, that's kind of how it was handled in IDW. I just didn't think of it that way until now.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by pferreira

Does it? Yeah you're right. I meant the cartoon though.

Check out a playthrough of the first videogame.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by HeroTurtlesFan

Definitely Hamato Yoshi.

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

It seems to at least be the most popular version.

Meaningless.

[DonatelloDomeHead31]

I went with rat for my vote because in the 1990 ninja turtles movie, it's funny watching the little rat puppet doing little kicks. As he gets intelligent, I was a bit unsure about that.

[ToTheNines]

A relevant little article: http://comicsalliance.com/ask-chris-...two-splinters/

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

A relevant little article: http://comicsalliance.com/ask-chris-...two-splinters/

So his problem with the pet rat origin is that Splinter would technically not be much older than the Turtles, but what's fine with it is that it explains the lack of ninja focus?... Which was an issue in the show that started the human origin, not the comic. And the problem he has with the human origin, is that the tragedy of it is needlessly excessive? Even though that tends to be an argument in favor of it?

I don't think I've ever heard any of those arguments before, seems oddly reversed from what I'm used to hearing. I suppose I agree with the idea that reincarnation might be the best solution, and guess he has a point about adding a huge tragedy to a show that was essentially a comedy was a bizarre move, but I think I'm gonna have to process the other arguments.

[ABrown]

I suppose if I have my pick, I would go with a rat. However, it's a non-issue for me. I find the personality, character design, and voice actor to be far more important as to whether I like said version of Splinter.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

O
Now see, personally that has never bothered me, the whole "turning humans into animals" thing, as I'd always simply dismissed any largely socialized mentality of humans being some other different thing with the fact that humans are still just one of many existing species, equally vulnerable to it, and the mutagen simply has the ability to change a creature and give them some of the traits of another species. And could in theory include a cross that doesn't even include human...

It's not that I think humans are fundamentally different from other animals. It's that I don't think inanimate ooze would be able to "tell" which creature one had most recently touched.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

It doesn't have to "tell". It just fuses the DNA of the base creature with whatever DNA was left by the last organic/living thing it came in contact with. Which is how Snakeweed(in Nick), Baxter(any mutant version), or even the "Mootagen Monster" (as Mikey dubbed it) from the OT were all created. (The last one simply being a severely mutated "super-cow".) In theory, ANY two(or more) creatures that come in contact with each other could be mutated to a hybrid form. Like the cat/dog mix Indigo suggested, or something more bizarre like a mix of human, lion and scorpion(manticore), or cat and hawk (small griffon?), or any other combination one could think of. The fun part is that with the "last creature in contact", it doesn't even need to be one that is noticable- it could be dog hairs on your clothes counting as "contact"! (And Ice Cream Kitty is easy to explain- ice cream is made from frozen cream, which has lots of bacteria and enzymes from the milk....)

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

or something more bizarre like a mix of human, lion and scorpion(manticore)

Manbearpig.


Yeah, at least in my head the best sense I could always make of it is it's just reacting with trace DNA from skin cells or whatnot.

I dunno though, I might have to debate the Ice Cream Kitty thing; she aught to have turned into a cat-cow then, or a cat and...god knows what the bacteria would look like cat sized. lol

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Well she DID melt into a blob during her mutation lol! I kind if take it as a mix of all the ice cream ingredients combining with the cat to make- whatever she is. Flavored, and frozen, of course.

Manbearpig, ROFL!! I could see that. Shredder would probably come up with something like that as a weapon. My best guess is the trace DNA would just get mixed in with the closest equivelant in the base creature's genes, like taking two puzzles and trading pieces of one for the other that fit the general image. (Adding a rat's tail, claws, fur and head shape to a human, or altering the skeketal structure of a turtle to bipedal form.) I've spent a lot of time researching the anatomical logistics of the turtles to see how they "tick" as it were. The biggest difference is the pelvic and shoulder joints. Shift them outside the shell and it's not hard to see how the mutagen would work.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Check out a playthrough of the first videogame.

No I remember, thanks for mentioning it.

[ABrown]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

It doesn't have to "tell". It just fuses the DNA of the base creature with whatever DNA was left by the last organic/living thing it came in contact with. Which is how Snakeweed(in Nick), Baxter(any mutant version), or even the "Mootagen Monster" (as Mikey dubbed it) from the OT were all created. (The last one simply being a severely mutated "super-cow".) In theory, ANY two(or more) creatures that come in contact with each other could be mutated to a hybrid form. Like the cat/dog mix Indigo suggested, or something more bizarre like a mix of human, lion and scorpion(manticore), or cat and hawk (small griffon?), or any other combination one could think of. The fun part is that with the "last creature in contact", it doesn't even need to be one that is noticable- it could be dog hairs on your clothes counting as "contact"! (And Ice Cream Kitty is easy to explain- ice cream is made from frozen cream, which has lots of bacteria and enzymes from the milk....)

This is how I've always interpreted it as well.