DC Relaunching AGAIN

[Autbot_Benz]

Looks like John Constantine got the Rebirth Treatment . Was in a comic shop today and found DC Rebirth The Hellblazer. Its up to Issue 3



hope its as good as the 80's Vertigo one is

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Getting REALLY sick of Tom King.

He promises me a story arc with one of my favorite antagonists, and then they barely feature at all.

"Night of the Monster Men"... all monsters, practically no Hugo Strange. Three pages at most? And the story is terrible.

"I Am Suicide"... all WTF, practically no Bane. And the story is terrible.

Not really sure why I should even bother with this title anymore.

[ZariusTwo]

Yeah, I'm close to dropping King's Batman entirely.

Nightwing#9 was the most fun I've had with that title yet, but then, I only stopped boycotting it this week because Superman was in it. Nice to see him be the reason Dick opts to go to Bludhaven (apparently, in a fresh retcon, he thinks he's never been there before)

Jon and Damian got a couple of cute moments together in Superman.

I was more interested in what they're setting up for Lois going up against Ivy in Trinity than I am in the trinity being subjected to the White Mercy.

Cyborg is fun, but the art just caved in on itself

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Yeah, I'm close to dropping King's Batman entirely.

Nightwing#9 was the most fun I've had with that title yet, but then, I only stopped boycotting it this week because Superman was in it. Nice to see him be the reason Dick opts to go to Bludhaven (apparently, in a fresh retcon, he thinks he's never been there before)

Jon and Damian got a couple of cute moments together in Superman.

I was more interested in what they're setting up for Lois going up against Ivy in Trinity than I am in the trinity being subjected to the White Mercy.

Cyborg is fun, but the art just caved in on itself

Curious, what do you have against the current Nightwing title? I've enjoyed it alright, though nothing has ever come close to topping the original Nightwing run in Bludhaven with Blockbuster. At least he's back in a mask and not running around playing James Bond. That was a weird time.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Getting REALLY sick of Tom King.

He promises me a story arc with one of my favorite antagonists, and then they barely feature at all.

"Night of the Monster Men"... all monsters, practically no Hugo Strange. Three pages at most? And the story is terrible.

"I Am Suicide"... all WTF, practically no Bane. And the story is terrible.

Not really sure why I should even bother with this title anymore.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Yeah, I'm close to dropping King's Batman entirely.

i just don't think Tom King is a good fit for Batman. feels like he was just thrown on the title for no other reason than him being the flavor of the month star writer.
i haven't enjoyed one thing he's written for the character since he started.
i like what he's done with Catwoman even less.


the conclusion to the Super Sons prequel in Superman #11 felt a bit rushed, but it was still fun.
i really thought it was going to go for more than just two issues.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Curious, what do you have against the current Nightwing title?

The Dick/Babs drama annoys me, it has ever since they got married in Convergence and then they just conveniently forgot because of Flashpoint and are back to will they/won't they, and Babs character has taken so many steps backwards I've practically written her off as nothing more than a clone.

I want Dick to grow up at last, Babs too, and until they do I'm not touching either of their books.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by myconius

i just don't think Tom King is a good fit for Batman. feels like he was just thrown on the title for no other reason than him being the flavor of the month star writer.
i haven't enjoyed one thing he's written for the character since he started.
i like what he's done with Catwoman even less.

And we thought New52 Catwoman was bad. With that lady writer who was on crack... don't even remember her name; I blocked it out of my mind.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

The Dick/Babs drama annoys me, it has ever since they got married in Convergence and then they just conveniently forgot because of Flashpoint and are back to will they/won't they, and Babs character has taken so many steps backwards I've practically written her off as nothing more than a clone.

I want Dick to grow up at last, Babs too, and until they do I'm not touching either of their books.

Babs hasn't been in a book since Gail Simone left. You can't tell me HipsterBabs is Barbara Gordon.

HipsterBabs is, I'm pretty sure, THE worst character direction in all the New 52.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

And we thought New52 Catwoman was bad. With that lady writer who was on crack... don't even remember her name; I blocked it out of my mind.

you can say that again! Catwoman's ONLY good arc in the entire New 52 was the first 6 issues by Judd Winick and Guillem March.
everything since was pretty much crud. i did NOT like that whole crime boss story either.

Ann Nocenti. i actually bought all those terrible issues.
a fools hope that it'd actually improve! YUP, i definitely have dain bramage!!

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

And we thought New52 Catwoman was bad. With that lady writer who was on crack... don't even remember her name; I blocked it out of my mind.



Babs hasn't been in a book since Gail Simone left. You can't tell me HipsterBabs is Barbara Gordon.

HipsterBabs is, I'm pretty sure, THE worst character direction in all the New 52.

Hey,at the very least Barbara Gordon IS Batgirl! The main factor is right. Also, Gail Simone started off wonderfully,but after 15 issues it got dark and creepy and Babs didn't seem like Babs. The early 70s' backup in Detective Comics it echoed disappeared almost immediately.

CKD, if you do read any of those Hugo Strange story arcs I gave you post your thoughts in my pre-crisis Batman thread. Myconius and I at the very least are interested.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Hey,at the very least Barbara Gordon IS Batgirl! The main factor is right. Also, Gail Simone started off wonderfully,but after 15 issues it got dark and creepy and Babs didn't seem like Babs. The early 70s' backup in Detective Comics it echoed disappeared almost immediately.

CKD, if you do read any of those Hugo Strange story arcs I gave you post your thoughts in my pre-crisis Batman thread. Myconius and I at the very least are interested.

Only if you and Myconius go chime in on "Batman villains redeemed."

I will be reading those arcs over Thanksgiving week while editing my novel.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Only if you and Myconius go chime in on "Batman villains redeemed."

I will be reading those arcs over Thanksgiving week while editing my novel.

Link me up and I will.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Only if you and Myconius go chime in on "Batman villains redeemed."

I will be reading those arcs over Thanksgiving week while editing my novel.

Batman villains redeemed?

what's that? is sounds interesting enough.

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

CKD, if you do read any of those Hugo Strange story arcs I gave you post your thoughts in my pre-crisis Batman thread. Myconius and I at the very least are interested.

Strange Apparitions remains my favorite Hugo Strange story ever done.
i did mildly enjoy the legends of the dark knight story 'Prey'.

[Autbot_Benz]

read The Hellblazer rebirth issue 1. Pretty solid Lots of nods to the Vertigo Era Constantine. The artwork makes John kind of resemble the Matt Ryan John from TV. Only thing that sucks is No cursing in the comic. The swear words are changed to Pentagrams. Its a teen rated Comic let John Swear.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Hey,at the very least Barbara Gordon IS Batgirl! The main factor is right.

When I got into comics, Babs wasn't Batgirl, she was Oracle, and should have stayed that way.

New Superman, Aquaman, and Batgirl are in the red

http://www.newsarama.com/31730-on-th...your-help.html

[myconius]

as much as i love Killing Joke, it should have never been allowed to be cannon.

it totally contradicts the intended "KILLING JOKE" of Joker finally pushing Batman too far and Batman silencing his laughter in the final panels.

that theory seemed so absurd when i first heard it.

but it's really the only way that ending makes ANY sense!

otherwise why else would Batman be laughing with the Joker at the end?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Redeemed Villains in Batman:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=56861

I dunno, the Joker doesn't make ANY sense when you think about it. He killed Jason, crippled Babs, killed Sarah Essen, drove Harleen insane (debatable, I realize), and has the highest bodycount in all of Gotham City (if not the entire DC universe). Of anyone, Batman should have killed him long ago.

So the ending of "Killing Joke" doesn't have to make any sense for me, because I know nothing about the Joker makes sense.

I guess you can explain it away as the fact that Batman is truly as insane as the Joker, except he's on the side of "good" (debatable). The same way that Batman knows he really belongs inside Arkham Asylum, with the Joker, Harvey, and the rest of the inmates (Serious House on a Serious Earth).

[myconius]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Redeemed Villains in Batman:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=56861

I dunno, the Joker doesn't make ANY sense when you think about it. He killed Jason, crippled Babs, killed Sarah Essen, drove Harleen insane (debatable, I realize), and has the highest bodycount in all of Gotham City (if not the entire DC universe). Of anyone, Batman should have killed him long ago.

So the ending of "Killing Joke" doesn't have to make any sense for me, because I know nothing about the Joker makes sense.

I guess you can explain it away as the fact that Batman is truly as insane as the Joker, except he's on the side of "good" (debatable). The same way that Batman knows he really belongs inside Arkham Asylum, with the Joker, Harvey, and the rest of the inmates (Serious House on a Serious Earth).

but the thing about The Killing Joke is it was never even supposed to be cannon in the first place.

so it's not even worth trying to make sense of it.

someone after the fact decided to make it canon just from the Cash Cow aspect of it.

profitability over creativity.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by myconius

but the thing about The Killing Joke is it was never even supposed to be cannon in the first place.

so it's not even worth trying to make sense of it.

someone after the fact decided to make it canon just from the Cash Cow aspect of it.

profitability over creativity.

Well, it WAS a good story. And DC did very good things with Barbara after the story, so I'm fine with them retroactively making it canon. (Even if it was a bit "women in fridges.")

[myconius]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Well, it WAS a good story. And DC did very good things with Barbara after the story, so I'm fine with them retroactively making it canon. (Even if it was a bit "women in fridges.")

Killing Joke was an AWESOME story!
but forcing it into continuity diminished it's impact i think?

i wasn't a fan of them turning Barbara into Oracle.
many writers just wrote her as a grumpy shrew.

in a lot of the recent stories right before flashpoint, there really wasn't anything new they could have done with her character that wasn't already done.

Gail Simone took her into the best direction she could have with the "miracle recovery" story-line.
it's just that it eventually became TOO grim with her thinking she killed her brother and her father wanting to arrest her alter ego.
then her father shooting her boyfriend's (wheeverhewas?)

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by myconius

Killing Joke was an AWESOME story!
but forcing it into continuity diminished it's impact i think?

i wasn't a fan of them turning Barbara into Oracle.
many writers just wrote her as a grumpy shrew.

in a lot of the recent stories right before flashpoint, there really wasn't anything new they could have done with her character that wasn't already done.

Gail Simone took her into the best direction she could have with the "miracle recovery" story-line.
it's just that it eventually became TOO grim with her thinking she killed her brother and her father wanting to arrest her alter ego.
then her father shooting her boyfriend's (wheeverhewas?)

So many cool storylines came out of Babs' crippling, though.

#1. She became Oracle
#2. She formed the Birds of Prey
#3. Batgirl became a legacy identity, leading to Helena, Cassandra, and Stephanie

Gail Simone COULD have told some good stories, but they were mostly pretty gruesome and dark. I think that's a bad fit for Batgirl. And I HATE that DC made James Gordon Jr a villain (thanks a lot, Snyder). None of those storylines appeals to me OR were handled well. (Gordon vows revenge on Batgirl for killing a KNOWN killer? Please.)

Also, if DC had to give Babs her legs back, I wish that had been the first storyline and not something pretty much just handwaved and left unsaid. It happened, but it wasn't important enough to show us? I think that would have made an amazing first story arc.

PLUS, the New 52 was incredibly sexist when it came to the Batman supporting cast. ALL four Robins (Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian) survived to have all of their history more or less kept intact, but three of the four Batgirls were completely retconned out of existence and then brought back years later, with ALL of their histories erased? Helena, Cass, and Stephanie ALL deserved better.