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Old 05-24-2018, 08:12 PM   #41
Leo656
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The current administration is saying that anyone who doesn't stand for the song of our country shouldn't be in our country...that's dangerous.
Those aren't American values.
By the same logic, the pro-kneelers are openly and loudly telling anyone who thinks that people should have to abide by a corporate-set company policy and keep their politics to themselves while they're "on the clock", same as any other job, that they're a racist, bigoted monster.

Also dangerous, also not American Values.

Fact is, as a person you can have NO opinion about race, or racially-motivated shootings, or any of that at all, and still understand this simple principle:

"Freedom of Speech" is NOT protected on company time or company property.

Violation of ANY company policies for ANY reason are grounds for punishment/termination.

That's it.

Look at it this way; Sometimes, NJ "Summer" carries into October, like it did last year. I have, occasionally, received threats of termination for wearing shorts at work after September - despite the fact that it's a gym and most people in it are wearing shorts. Company Policy states that the company dress code must be adhered to, and that dress code says "No Shorts between September and May." I've been there almost a decade and I'm the best guy working there, and yet, I'm as accountable as anyone else. I can fight for my "right" to be comfortable, OR, I can suck it up, realize it's not the end of the world, and keep my job. AND, if I even TALK about politics with customers - we do, but only when it's quiet and the boss isn't around - I can be fired immediately for that, too. Meanwhile, a CUSTOMER can work out at my gym wearing a pro-Trump or Hillary shirt, and that's their business. I would be asked to change or else I'd be fired, because I'm on the clock and most people aren't being paid to promote their personal politics.

Once again, people get so caught up in "Feelings" and whatever, that they forget that feelings really don't factor into much when it comes to policy. Company's can NOT set policies based on, "Well that's mean/insensitive/etc.", they're running a business and especially the ones who have to answer to shareholders have to protect their bottom line, not the "feelings" of their employees... who most of the time are more than free to make any political expression they want ON THEIR OWN TIME.
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I'll be blunt; this is the ONLY country in the world where some half-illiterate steroid-case who only graduated high school because he could run fast and jump high - but couldn't read or do basic math - can go on to make around 500 TIMES the national household average playing a f*cking child's game. Same goes for the spoiled actors playing make-believe, who get $20 million a movie in between threatening to move to France every time someone they don't like wins an election. Only here; you ain't getting pampered like this anywhere else in the world. That's a fact.

So since we're taking such good care of these people, at the very least they should have to show a little basic respect to the things like the flag and the anthem, which symbolize the fact that in any other country in the world, they'd starve to death for having nothing of value to contribute to society.

I've long believed that if you hate it here so much, you shouldn't be allowed to make millions upon millions of dollars of American money, which you only are able to earn thanks to a system you constantly whine about, because that's disrespectful and exploitative. Again, behave that way in public anywhere else, in any other country, and see if it's tolerated, and for how long. They should be glad they're not being forced to stand for the anthem at gunpoint; you can still get shot for "taking a knee" in much of the world. Just sayin'.

It's stupid. Shut up and stand for the Anthem, take a Moment of Silence afterwards, everybody wins. "You can't force people to _________!" Yes, you can. If you're paying someone, yes, you CAN force them to act and dress and behave a certain way while they are on company time and property. OR, those people can try working at Wendy's and see how far it gets them there, and if they'll still be getting paid so much for nothing.

Orrrrrr... we could shut down the entire NFL. I vote for that, gladly. F*ck 'em.
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:38 PM   #42
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Forcing a patriotic act not only cheapens the act for those who undertake it solemnly, but it is in direct opposition to why this nation committed treason in the first place.

But hey, I guess it takes all kinds.
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:44 PM   #43
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Why is it "forced"? They get paid millions of dollars for tossing a ball around and beating their wives in the off-season. That's all they contribute. They'd only get away with it in a country this tolerant, with priorities so laughably misplaced.

If anything they should be kissing the damn flag, let alone standing for the anthem. It's only "forced patriotism" because they're so self-centered, entitled, and childish. You're right; it shouldn't have to be "forced"; if they had the slightest bit of respect they'd do it willingly.

They're spoiled children.

AND, I promise you, not ONE of them gives a single sh*t about the "cause" they're supposedly supporting. It's all about attention for themselves. It's ridiculously transparent.
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:45 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
Forcing a patriotic act not only cheapens the act for those who undertake it solemnly, but it is in direct opposition to why this nation committed treason in the first place.

But hey, I guess it takes all kinds.
It's a company. It isn't the government. They can do whatever they want as long as they're not breaking any laws.
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:54 PM   #45
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Why is it "forced"? They get paid millions of dollars for tossing a ball around and beating their wives in the off-season. That's all they contribute. They'd only get away with it in a country this tolerant, with priorities so laughably misplaced.

If anything they should be kissing the damn flag, let alone standing for the anthem. It's only "forced patriotism" because they're so self-centered, entitled, and childish. You're right; it shouldn't have to be "forced"; if they had the slightest bit of respect they'd do it willingly.

They're spoiled children.

AND, I promise you, not ONE of them gives a single sh*t about the "cause" they're supposedly supporting. It's all about attention for themselves. It's ridiculously transparent.
I guarantee you most of the people standing for the national anthem don't give a damn about the cause they're supporting. It's Ridiculously transparent. That's why we have barely 50% voter turnout.

Hell all you have to do is go online and see the sheer number of people who don't understand the First Amendment is to protect speech from Congress.

The average American isn't exactly a scholar of Civics.

I'm not saying the NFL can't do what they're doing, I'm saying they're a shity Organization for doing so. I'm saying they're not right for doing it.

And let's be honest, the average player in the NFL makes a small fraction of what the owners do. And those guys aren't the ones on the field battering their brains for the entertainment of the masses.
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:07 PM   #46
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I'll take "Token-But-Half-Hearted Show Of Basic Respect" over "Self-Centered Disruption", thanks.

When people who don't necessarily "romantically" love this country stand and salute the flag, they're at least showing basic respect to the country, the opportunities it provides, and those people who do "love" it. Nobody's hurting or "pestering" anyone.

When people who basically rape an entire country's economy despite contributing nothing of value refuse to salute the flag/anthem, they're saying that "Everything Is About ME. Pay Attention to ME. What I have to say is what's important. And if I'm hurting your feelings, GOOD." Which is plainly disrespectful and entirely self-serving. They only do it because they know it gets on people's nerves and they get off on the attention it brings them. Which makes them childish narcissists.

Flipping what I said around to try and prove your point simply doesn't work at all.
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I do agree that although I hate the sport and everyone involved in it, the fact that the athletes with the highest risk of physical injury make, on average, the lowest salaries in American sports aside from hockey - snicker - while the NFL itself makes obscene amounts of money for, basically, keeping these guys on TV and out of jail, is disgusting. If they're going to be, frankly, stupid enough to play football over a relatively "safe" sport like baseball or basketball - where players make tons more money for reasons I'll never comprehend - they should at least be compensated at least as much, if not much, much MORE than the athletes in those sports, who risk far less serious injuries and tend to have much healthier lives post-retirement. I don't argue that and I talk about it with people alllll the time. The whole system is awful. Make no mistake, I have NO respect for the NFL as an institution, but they're 100% right on principle in this specific case. They're accountable to the shareholders and MOST Americans think this kneeling thing is bullsh*t. What are they gonna do? Ignore the complaints and the boycotts? I don't think that's realistic.

Like I said, if we wanna dismantle the whole system, great. I'll sign to that. Unfortunately, we're not talking about that, we're talking about the rights of pampered millionaires to act like disruptive, whiny babies on company time when they know for a fact it pisses a lot of people off.

Imagine that. "News Flash! Pro Athletes - Maladjusted C*nts." Who'da thunk it.
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:13 PM   #47
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The majority of NFL players don't make millions.

And I fail to see how silently getting down on one knee is a disruption.

I shudder to think what people this buttmad about the topic think when they go to church...
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:56 PM   #48
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Flip that around: Do people who so aggressively fight for people's "right" to be disruptive, actually think taking a knee during the anthem is going to "fix racism"?

It's not. Nothing is, ever. It's not going away. Sorry. We can file that one away with, "We're going to just have to get by on solar and wind power." No chance. Pouting, stamping feet and yelling "Look at me! My feelings are hurt by things nobody can change!" doesn't do anything.

I know it's "mean" to point out Exactly How Things Are, but that's it. Human beings are tribal, tribalism leads to racism. Some of the most "Liberal" people I've ever met were some of the most shockingly racist (although they tend to be more anti-Semitic than flat-out racist; still, prejudice is prejudice).

You're not going to fix that. You're DEFINITELY not fixing it by making yourself a spectacle during an event where people are trying to have a good time and NOT think about "bad stuff".
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"Buttmad". Me? Seriously? All I'm doing is pointing out that these people are self-interested narcissists who should be capable of showing a little basic respect to the traditions and customs of the only country that would even put them so high on a pedestal in the first place. They can whine about politics at home on their own time, publicly, on Twitter, like a normal person. I'm not denying them their right to speak or have an opinion; I'm pointing out that the WAY they're trying to do it is inappropriate and self-serving. That really can't even be disputed.

That's not "buttmad". In fact, I think that anyone who uses that word, or any variant, during a civil conversation in which they simply disagree, should simply not continue trying to have a conversation, because it betrays the fact that they're not capable of even entertaining the notion that someone else's points may be valid.

"I have nothing else to say and I can't disprove anything you say. You're a butthurt meanie." That's how it comes across when people do that. People can agree to disagree without acting like children.

I mean, people can. Liberals, not so much. See, now we're both being childish. Yaaaaay.

...And I don't go to church, either.
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