12-31-2017, 04:05 AM | #41 | ||
Weed Whacker
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 29,245
|
Quote:
But before you misread, let's be fair. Hey, screw the Mirage fans, too! Screw all TMNT pre-existing TMNT fans. I'm not even being facetious. It shouldn't be "for" any pre-existing fans. TMNT isn't even that big right now that it can rest on those laurels and again, that didn't even save the last movie. A new, successful TMNT movie can rise on its own merit. Learn from the mistakes of old, attempt a new reimagining of the core principle of the source material. Try that in a big way, and see what happens. It can't be worse than what they've been doing, I say. The audience will come or it won't... that's more a marketing thing than anything else anyway in the game of trailer cutting and whatnot, and certainly not indicative of a "We need to make it JUST LIKE THIS because this is what worked for toddlers and tweens in the late 80s and early 90s!!" Because that's absurd. Quote:
__________________
|
||
12-31-2017, 04:22 AM | #42 | |
Hench Mutant
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 265
|
Yeah I think we reached a consensus.
Quote:
I would think we have seen this a lot. If we stick to the Shredder, we are stuck to the same story every time. I would say, let's get rid of him. Perhaps in Part 3 he can be introduced, but he is not that intrinsical, as you put it, that he must be there in the first movie (if we are talking about a movie). One of the more hopeful news about the new cartoon is, that there is no Shredder yet. For me, obviously.
__________________
Last edited by Chabrendeki; 12-31-2017 at 05:18 AM. |
|
12-31-2017, 04:32 AM | #43 |
Mad Scientist
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 2,393
|
I don't want to come off topic by moving onto Shredder (so apologies for that) but I would like to see Shredder used again in whatever reboot, just not at first, so you have something a little different maybe to start and then Shredder comes in a bit later, build up to him.
|
12-31-2017, 11:29 PM | #44 | ||
Big Blue Boy Scout
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Bark Town
Posts: 4,474
|
Quote:
Its not until season 2 that they start making jokes and become more kid friendly. Even then, they still have a few moments of being serious sprinkled here and there throughout the series, and in season 8, they completely lose their "hallmark charm" as you describe it. Don't get me wrong, I love the comedic aspect of B&R, even more than the serious portrayals,but it is not completely out of character to make future versions dangerous and not silly as there is a precedent.
__________________
Quote:
Last edited by FredWolfLeonardo; 12-31-2017 at 11:57 PM. |
||
12-31-2017, 11:55 PM | #45 |
Hench Mutant
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 265
|
It was a kid's show. The whole show was some kind of comedic and childlike (compared to the source material).
That the show went more comedic and childlike for season 2, and that season 1 was perhaps compared to other kid's properties at the same time not so childish, doesn't mean, it wasn't comedic and childlike at all. But I think B&R wasn't the worst part of the FW-cartoon. For me they are not the cause of the problems of it. I voted with 4 because their stupidity in latter seasons is (and was) kinda boring for me, but I've always seen a lot of potential in the two characters. So they had some good moments in the Archie comics, I appreciate today, and loved as a kid (eg. opening panels to #12). [edit] PS.: I think it's a common misunderstandnig serious would mean more strong and more menacing. I mean, the PD B&R are dangerous, but still silly. Seriousness comes from characterisation in depth. That you can relate with your own problems to something.
__________________
Last edited by Chabrendeki; 01-01-2018 at 12:04 AM. |
01-01-2018, 12:12 AM | #46 | ||
Big Blue Boy Scout
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Bark Town
Posts: 4,474
|
Quote:
The villains in season 1 were relatively straightforward and didn't crack jokes like they did in season 2 onwards. They were still defeated in comedic ways by the turtles but their personalities were not yet developed into what we know them to be today. I mean, both henchmutants were shown throwing around the turtles after choking them, and Rocksteady even acted pretty serious towards Shredder when he was insulted for not beating the turtles, something he would never do again
__________________
Quote:
|
||
01-01-2018, 01:12 AM | #47 |
Mad Scientist
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,282
|
I'll go beyond this poll and give them a 0, that's right folks a 0.
These two are my least favorite villains ever. I wish they never got revived for the 2012 series or live action films, bah. |
01-01-2018, 02:14 AM | #48 |
Hench Mutant
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 265
|
So you mean 10 (most terrible)?
__________________
|
01-01-2018, 03:48 AM | #49 | ||
Weed Whacker
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 29,245
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
||
01-01-2018, 05:28 AM | #50 | |
Big Blue Boy Scout
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Bark Town
Posts: 4,474
|
I think you're remembering episode 6 and onwards unless you count lines like "Maybe I should wring your stinking neck", "You just give us another shot pal, and you'll see some squished turtles" and "Those Shell Heads are dead" as comedic one liners.
__________________
Quote:
Last edited by FredWolfLeonardo; 01-01-2018 at 05:41 AM. |
|
01-01-2018, 07:13 AM | #51 | |
Emperor
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 9,442
|
Quote:
But let's for a moment pretend they weren't comedic characters in the first five episodes, what are they then? They have no agency of their own, they never succeed in anything, their appearences are fairly brief and they don't really drive the plot in any signifigant way. And as we're pretending they're not comedic, what are their personalities? Snarling brutes? Gee, how exciting... |
|
01-01-2018, 11:34 AM | #52 | ||
Big Blue Boy Scout
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Bark Town
Posts: 4,474
|
Quote:
The only moments with the villains I found funny in season 1 are a few of Shredder's lines like "Tonight I dine on turtle soup", "You might struggle to find a date on Saturday Night", "It feels so good to be so bad", and "I don't wanna conquer this place, I wanna conquer Earth!" but those still much fewer jokes than what Shredder would do in later seasons. Also, Shredder didn't change as drastically as B&R in the transition from season 1 to 2 and it still doesn't negate my point about Bebop and Rocksteady themselves. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I like the FW villains more in season 1 without their usual comedy routine (I find their lack of comedy to be bland infact), but I am merely defending the idea that a serious version of Bebop and Rocksteady is not something completely out of the blue with no basis in any of their original appearances. Snarling brutes can be quite fitting in a more serious setting and be potentially very interesting in my opinon, especially since they won't be defeated in comedic ways and are allowed to be more violent than what a kids show would allow.
__________________
Quote:
Last edited by FredWolfLeonardo; 01-01-2018 at 11:44 AM. |
||
01-01-2018, 12:01 PM | #53 |
Overlord
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 41,030
|
If Bebop/Rocksteady appear in the 2018 show I wonder what they'll be like. I don't think they'll continue with Russian Rocksteady or laser break-dancing Bebop like in Nick, but make them more into street punks again.
Oh well as long as Bebop is a black man with a purple mohawk, all is well. |
01-01-2018, 09:30 PM | #54 |
Overlord
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,004
|
..... guess you're not gonna change in 2018, are you?
__________________
"I was down with TMNT once, but then they changed what TMNT was. Now what I was down with is no longer TMNT and what TMNT now is seems weird and scary. And it'll happen to YOU." Check out my blog for Comic Reviews and other things. https://markepicblogofrandomness.blogspot.com/ I also started The AEW Crew, the All Elite Wrestling Fan Club! https://www.facebook.com/groups/637508120044168/ |
01-11-2018, 03:21 PM | #55 | |||||
Foot Elite
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,514
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||
01-12-2018, 08:41 AM | #56 |
Mad Scientist
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,563
|
I give them a 5. They aren't great and they aren't intolerably bad, they are just 'OK.'
Reason is, they aren't bad characters but I do think the 'stupidity for comedy' kind of hurts them. It often gets overused to an annoying extent, to the point it can make one wonder why Shredder still keeps them around. The other thing is that they can feel over-included. Nick didn't need them, it already had it's own set of henchmen. Problem is, there were nostalgic fans that demanded them, and so Nick added them. It wouldn't have been so bad if they didn't overshadow the original henchmen, but they did, and whatever unique badassery those guys might have developed took a backseat to these two. I do think they can be fun though, but they should not be used every time Shredder needs some henchmen. That gets old, which was what I'd been feeling for a while. Plus they sorely need to be updated, they don't have to be bumbling throwbacks to the 80's all the time, they can evolve. It wouldn't be so bad if they have an animal origin, or wore modern fashion, or if they were fully competent (and not bumbling manchildren) and used dark comedy rather then goofy jokes. For right now though, they need to be shelved for a while. Shredder needs to get some new henchmen and TMNT needs to not be afraid to try new stuff. Otherwise it just looks like it can't move on past the Fred Wolf series or Mirage stories and tries to rely too much on fan nostalgia to keep it going. Last edited by Metalwolf; 01-12-2018 at 08:49 AM. |
01-12-2018, 10:15 AM | #57 |
Weed Whacker
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 29,245
|
If? C'mon. There's 0% chance they won't be there. Get ready for a new Beebop and Rocksteady origin!
__________________
|
09-20-2018, 08:13 PM | #58 |
Mad Scientist
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,874
|
Only a 2. Then again, that’s due to the varying writing quality of this episodic show.
|
|
|