DC Relaunching AGAIN

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I like it when some of Batman's enemies can reach redemption, as I think it's a powerful statement about how Gotham City isn't totally damned.

Clayface, Killer Croc, Poison Ivy, Harvey Dent, Riddler... those are all characters who I've enjoyed seeing reach redemption (and then lose it again, because comics).

Whereas I firmly believe Harley Quinn should never evolve to "antihero." She's a victim of Stockholm Syndrome, and while a victim should evolve and escape, writers all too often want their cake and eat it, too, with her.

Like in New 52, she was blowing up kids with Gameboy bombs. That's pretty damn recent.

At the same time, if you redeem ALL of Gotham's foes, well... that's a big mistake.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I like it when some of Batman's enemies can reach redemption, as I think it's a powerful statement about how Gotham City isn't totally damned.

Clayface, Killer Croc, Poison Ivy, Harvey Dent, Riddler... those are all characters who I've enjoyed seeing reach redemption (and then lose it again, because comics).

Whereas I firmly believe Harley Quinn should never evolve to "antihero." She's a victim of Stockholm Syndrome, and while a victim should evolve and escape, writers all too often want their cake and eat it, too, with her.

Like in New 52, she was blowing up kids with Gameboy bombs. That's pretty damn recent.

At the same time, if you redeem ALL of Gotham's foes, well... that's a big mistake.

I mainly meant Catwoman and DC's choice of either Two Face or Mr. Freeze. I enjoyed the little that was done with Harvey Dent from Hush to One Year Later. Subzero had such a powerful ending that was ruined with a follow up. What if Mr. Freeze could find happiness and use afterwards?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I mainly meant Catwoman and DC's choice of either Two Face or Mr. Freeze. I enjoyed the little that was done with Harvey Dent from Hush to One Year Later. Subzero had such a powerful ending that was ruined with a follow up. What if Mr. Freeze could find happiness and use afterwards?

Catwoman I'm okay with. Tom King could have pushed her to full heroine but opted for all his weird stuff instead.

Really, all of Batman's female villains are pretty sympathetic at some point or other, but that's partly male bias. Talia was pretty great and ambiguous until Batman Inc turned her full villain. Ivy and Harley both play both sides depending on story arc.

And yeah, Mister Freeze really needs to move past "Nora is sick and I'm angry." Cure Nora, give him a new shtick.

It's like Man-Bat. You can only tell the same story so often before we're all tired of it. But that's the nature of comics, I guess.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Catwoman I'm okay with. Tom King could have pushed her to full heroine but opted for all his weird stuff instead.

Really, all of Batman's female villains are pretty sympathetic at some point or other, but that's partly male bias. Talia was pretty great and ambiguous until Batman Inc turned her full villain. Ivy and Harley both play both sides depending on story arc.

And yeah, Mister Freeze really needs to move past "Nora is sick and I'm angry." Cure Nora, give him a new shtick.

It's like Man-Bat. You can only tell the same story so often before we're all tired of it. But that's the nature of comics, I guess.

A central problem I had with The Society during Infinite Crisis was that Talia and Black Adam were apart of the inner circle. They were depicted as neutral up to th as t point and takes away the threat. Penguin and Dr. Sivana were swapped out for them, two evil guys with connections but they were short white guys. Can't have that apparently.

Yes, all ladies are redeemable and never all that bad. The '66 television show did that with every henchgirl and Catwoman. It is still a cliche 53 years later.

As interesting as reviving Nora is its looking like a tweaked retread.What could Victor do after Nora is revived and still have an interesting dynamic?

Gotham Rogues, YouTuber said the same thing recently about Man-Bat. He stated only the first three stories, which is one overall arc were needed for him. Hard to disagree.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

As interesting as reviving Nora is its looking like a tweaked retread.What could Victor do after Nora is revived and still have an interesting dynamic?

Gotham Rogues, YouTuber said the same thing recently about Man-Bat. He stated only the first three stories, which is one overall arc were needed for him. Hard to disagree.

With Man-Bat, I think the Batman Inc storyline of Talia kidnapping him and creating an army of ManBat assassins was interesting. I liked that.

And for Mister Freeze... hmm... I really think the Batman comics need a team of antiheroes for morally gray missions. Like we have the Teen Titans and Justice League and other groups for all of the heroic jobs, and Suicide Squad for all of the black-ops work using expendable convicts with bombs in their necks...

But what about an Outlaws team? Something akin to the Red Hood, where they do things that are bad for the greater good. Put Freeze, Clayface, Ivy, and Croc on the team, and have them on some sort of "community service" project, operating with some degree of freedom but oversight from the Bat.

"This is your part of Gotham. Defend it. I'll be watching."

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

With Man-Bat, I think the Batman Inc storyline of Talia kidnapping him and creating an army of ManBat assassins was interesting. I liked that.

And for Mister Freeze... hmm... I really think the Batman comics need a team of antiheroes for morally gray missions. Like we have the Teen Titans and Justice League and other groups for all of the heroic jobs, and Suicide Squad for all of the black-ops work using expendable convicts with bombs in their necks...

But what about an Outlaws team? Something akin to the Red Hood, where they do things that are bad for the greater good. Put Freeze, Clayface, Ivy, and Croc on the team, and have them on some sort of "community service" project, operating with some degree of freedom but oversight from the Bat.

"This is your part of Gotham. Defend it. I'll be watching."

Solid point. I am aware that he worked with Batman and others,but Batwoman II killed him for whatever reason. What was Karlo's story and I assume his evil itch got the best of him which caused his murder? Karlo being a resentful serial killer makes it an odd choice for a redeemable character. Okay, so is Two Face, but there is background and history for him to turn around.

Also, another reason to put Jason Better Off Dead Todd where he belongs.

Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, Two Face, Black Spider and Cat-Man as a team of anti-heroes protecting the innocent and a section of Gotham?

[ZariusTwo]

DC December Solicitations

https://www.newsarama.com/46928-dc-c...citations.html

Seems Doomsday Clock is on track to conclude that month, not that it really matters anymore, it's whole point has been nullified.

Catwoman becomes a mob boss once again and has to keep it hidden from Batman just as they fully reconcile. Also looks like they're keeping Alfred dead a little longer.

Superman "outs" himself to the world and the impact is felt across his own book and his wifes'.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

DC December Solicitations

https://www.newsarama.com/46928-dc-c...citations.html

Seems Doomsday Clock is on track to conclude that month, not that it really matters anymore, it's whole point has been nullified.

Catwoman becomes a mob boss once again and has to keep it hidden from Batman just as they fully reconcile. Also looks like they're keeping Alfred dead a little longer.

Superman "outs" himself to the world and the impact is felt across his own book and his wifes'.

How does Doomsday Clock lineup with Justice/Doom War in Justice League with the Perpetua revival? It does seem to have quite a bit of contradiction. I assume that DC is going with Snyder's Justice League run over the dragged out Johns crossover.

One thing I was confused with,what does this made up Golden Age of Hollywood actor, Carver Coleman and his murder by his greedy mother have to do with Dr. Manhattan and the overall plot? The narrative is so all over the place.

[ZariusTwo]

It’s being speculated that AT&T, the parent company of WarnerMedia which includes DC Entertainment, may sell off the brand in a part of a move to save billions of dollars.

Former DC Comics artist Ethan Van Sciver was tipped off by someone at DC in regards to an article published by Barrons titled “AT&T Was Headed in the Right Direction Before Activist Elliott Management Showed Up,” which is in regards to Hedge fund Elliott Management having disclosed a whopping $3.2 billion stake in AT&T.

[…] Ethan Van Sciver goes on to speculate that AT&T could divest itself of DC – meaning getting rid of DC – as AT&T may no longer want or require the brand as part of its business interest or investment.

[…] What remains to be seen is if AT&T will simply close DC Comics and keep the movies and TV properties (I’ve been told WB wants to connect everything regarding movies, TV and streaming networks) or whether they will license off DC Comics or sell all of DC Entertainment, including the comics, movies and TV properties, or simply continue the way things have been going but make changes on an executive-level or more.

https://bleedingfool.com/blogs/dc-co...-learned-soon/

[ZariusTwo]

Batman#79

Spoiler:

Bruce and Selina decide it's time to get back in the game thwarting several crimes and intercepting a shipment of venom. Bruce tells Selina Alfred signalled him and that he's safe, so he's sending Damien in (this is obviously set before Alfred's murder). Afterwards, Selina reveals she's stolen a diamond four seperate times, with Bruce catching her with it on every one of those. Bruce says she still can't keep it. Finally, Bruce and Selina come to an agreement over where they met now that they understand each other better...not the boat, not the street, but on the beach.

Superman#15

Spoiler:

The Legion tells the aligned worlds that their alliance holds steady well into the future, Superman agrees to speak for the people of Earth on United Planetary matters. Adam Strange visits Superman while he is observing the captive Rogal Zarr and informs him that Jor-El has been tried and sentenced...he has been returned to his original point in space and time, just as Krypton explodes, killing him. Superman and Zod have a final chit-chat where Zod says he wants to make a better place for him and his family. Clark, Kara and Jon head back to Earth

[MikeandRaph87]

What is this about Lucius Fox's New 52 son becoming Batman for an arc? I am enjoying Detective Comics and interesting to see Tyion is the same age as me, but Bruce has been replaced too often in the last decade and only Dick Grayson works (for me at least).
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/09...ng-the-robins/

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

What is this about Lucius Fox's New 52 son becoming Batman for an arc? I am enjoying Detective Comics and interesting to see Tyion is the same age as me, but Bruce has been replaced too often in the last decade and only Dick Grayson works (for me at least).
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/09...ng-the-robins/

I hope not.

Give Luke Fox an actual new identity. Or hell, ramp Batwing up into someone awesome!

But enough of the "Batman gets replaced." It was great with Dick taking over, and Jean-Paul was a delightful psycho in the 90's, but no one else please. The Jim Gordon as Batman thing was terrible, and we all love Jimbo.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I hope not.

Give Luke Fox an actual new identity. Or hell, ramp Batwing up into someone awesome!

But enough of the "Batman gets replaced." It was great with Dick taking over, and Jean-Paul was a delightful psycho in the 90's, but no one else please. The Jim Gordon as Batman thing was terrible, and we all love Jimbo.

There are too many in the Batfamily at this time. Time to shrink it down honestly. Is Luke filling in during Batman's honeymoon?

[IMJ]

Comic books are a mess and it all began with Quesada's liberalism with the publishing when he was EIC of Marvel. He's a talented guy but his throw any **** at the wall to see what sticks mentality only results in a wall covered in ****.

And as I see it - with each publisher initiative for larger sales, publishers are just distancing themselves from the readership more and more.

I know this is about the DC reboot, but as an industry example they are cancelling Iron Man -again- in December for a re-launch. It's a big deal to say that even I am done at this point. IMJ has meant "Ironman John" for twenty years online.

You can't even put a back issue collection together that makes sense anymore without pouring over a variety of mini-series-like volumes for the publication dates, and even then it's a mess.

The best thing publishers can do at this point is put every major book they have back to the original numbering because even the re-numbering with legacy numbering is offensive at this point. Then, put their head down in shame about the last 10 - 12 years of comics and just hope the readership sorts itself out from the publishing messes. Even niche-fan-favorite publishers ilke Valiant Comics only distributed an average of 4,500 copies of their entire publishing line in August. The low end of that was Livewire at 3,843 copies.

Any books DC has in the top ten are all Batman books, IIRC. An entire universe but the only thing they can sell reliably is something with Batman in it.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

There are too many in the Batfamily at this time. Time to shrink it down honestly. Is Luke filling in during Batman's honeymoon?

Aw, you only say that because you hate everybody but Dick and Babs.

There's room enough for all of the other Robins and Batgirls, who have great character growth. But they have to be in the proper places... and honestly, hardly any of them have been used well in a while.

Originally Posted by IMJ

Any books DC has in the top ten are all Batman books, IIRC. An entire universe but the only thing they can sell reliably is something with Batman in it.

Or, damnably, Harley Fvcking Quinn.

Batman sells. It's baffling that DC hasn't tried to make an actual Batman Cinematic Universe... he's got enough supporting friends and foes.

But no, let's shoehorn Harley Fvcking Quinn into the damned Birds of Prey. Who needs Barbara Gordon, anyway?

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Aw, you only say that because you hate everybody but Dick and Babs.

There's room enough for all of the other Robins and Batgirls, who have great character growth. But they have to be in the proper places... and honestly, hardly any of them have been used well in a while.



Or, damnably, Harley Fvcking Quinn.

Batman sells. It's baffling that DC hasn't tried to make an actual Batman Cinematic Universe... he's got enough supporting friends and foes.

But no, let's shoehorn Harley Fvcking Quinn into the damned Birds of Prey. Who needs Barbara Gordon, anyway?

No, just not a fan of. There is a difference! Jason Todd on the other hand, give me a shovel.

Look what happened with Spider-Man in cinema though...and Warner Bros has the rights,but cant get it straight. There was Catwoman in name only in 2004 and now Joker in name only in 2018. Sure, villains stories change for film, but not to the point its just the same alias.

It's not Birds of Prey without Barbara Gordon. I wnat to check out Black Mask on the big screen, but if Barbara is not in the movie then I will not see it. Not protesting, just not interested.

[ZariusTwo]

Nightwing will return in 2020

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/09...iv-batman-run/

Riddler to be the main threat in the Batbooks in 2020?

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/09...g-bad-in-2020/

Batman#84 will be the follow-up to "The Button" and finally explains near the very end how Flashpoint Thomas Wayne ended up in the DC Universe

https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status...68573826912256

King teases that something with Helena Wayne is coming

https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status...68712167641089

Using The Phantasm in Batman/Catwoman wasn't originally planned, this development was entirely the idea of Clay Mann

https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status...80778060812293

Jorge Fornes will return for the next annual, which is King's "final word/thesis' on Batman

https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status...69591759724545

[ZariusTwo]

Another couple broken up, Diana and Steve

[ZariusTwo]

Jason Fabok says Three Jokers is/isn't in continuity, basically they'll be doing things without any consideration for how it impacts the continuity (so typical day at DC then, as they're doing this across the board)

https://twitter.com/DarkKnight398/st...htmode%3Dfalse

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Jason Fabok says Three Jokers is/isn't in continuity, basically they'll be doing things without any consideration for how it impacts the continuity (so typical day at DC then, as they're doing this across the board)

https://twitter.com/DarkKnight398/st...htmode%3Dfalse

They need to hurry up and release that $hit. C'mon, gimme Three Jokers and gimme Three Jokers now!!!