Crossover ("Wanted: Bebop & Rocksteady") Arc Discussion Thread (WARNING SPOILERS!)

[neatoman]

Earth 7?

Let's see here:

1. Mirage
2. Usagi
3. FW
4. Live-action
5. 4Kids
6. IDW
7. Nickelodeon
8. Bayturtles
9. Dimension X
10. Hell

That's 10 Dimensions alright...

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Earth 7?

Let's see here:

1. Mirage
2. Usagi
3. FW
4. Live-action
5. 4Kids
6. IDW
7. Nickelodeon
8. Bayturtles
9. Dimension X
10. Hell

That's 10 Dimensions alright...

X is the Rosen numeral for ten so that would make Dimention X Dimention 10.

[Utrommaniac]

Ha, I thought about that as well

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

I am getting REALLY tired of '80s characters not so great' treatment from all these cross overs. if that is the only way you can separate the teams from each other and make them all seem unique.....you shouldn't be writing them.


Other than that little cavet.....the one episode in the entire series that brought a bit of a smile to my face. from start to finish.

Originally Posted by NoPressApril

THIS. I was at Wal-Mart at 12:15 this morning for this DVD, i've been looking VERY forward to this. I was not impressed. Had I known I was paying to watch my favorite TMNT incarnation insulted I would have stayed at home, watched Netflix and saved my money. I am honestly not sure which I find more ridiculous, the OT treatment in these episodes or the fact that Playmates didn't even have the 3 corresponding figures on shelves in time for this things release. For me this was a complete failure and hardly worth the time and money for one small exchange concerning child April and reporters wearing jumpsuits. In my opinion if you truly love the OT avoid the DVD and buy the figures if Playmates ever gets around to releasing them. The episodes are insulting to the OT but the figures by themselves are a cool nod.

Christ, really? More of these kinds complaints?

Anyway, I've seen the whole thing now, it's... Alright, it's not spectacular or even that memorable but it's alright. Seems kind of pointless when they already had the crossover episode in season 4 and it doesn't seem like there's really anything at stake here. It's pretty clear that Bebop and Rocksteady (the ones who ultimately foil the planetary destruction) are the only reason the FW villains got so far in the first place, so there's very little tension.

[Jester]

I just realized....

With Slash and Mondo in the mix, we have 3 Donnies & 3 Mikeys...I'm positive that's intentional.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Earth 7?

Let's see here:

1. Mirage
2. Usagi
3. FW
4. Live-action
5. 4Kids
6. IDW
7. Nickelodeon
8. Bayturtles
9. Dimension X
10. Hell

That's 10 Dimensions alright...

But Archie?

[Jester]

One quibble: where were Krang's rock soldiers...we see the Kraang's rock soldiers, and new mini minions, but no classic Fred Wolf rock soldiers.

[Casey]

Originally Posted by Jester

One quibble: where were Krang's rock soldiers...we see the Kraang's rock soldiers, and new mini minions, but no classic Fred Wolf rock soldiers.

That was basically my only wtf moment. I rolled my eyes a little at the last line of the aired series since they swapped the episodes, but whatever, kind of cute.

[Casey]

Also, is the image that comes up on the turtle com when Karai calls, supposed to be Lotus Blossom from 1987? This one is almost TOO full of references like the Kreuger and TWO Robocop props. Not really complaining, but they were on the line.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

But Archie?

The Fred Wolf turtles that appear here seems to be weird combination of the show and the video games while Krang has a backstory that's incompatible with the actual show. I think that the Nick Multiverse FW turtles aren't really the ones from that show but rather a pastiche of the idea of the Fred Wolf turtles and it's tie-ins.

Since Archie and FW started out as the same scripts and marketed the same toyline, they might no be considered distinct enough from each other to warrant different Universes and are instead mushed together.

The only way to justify 10 dimensions (at least 3 of which aren't even TMNT based) then you'd either have to ignore or combine them if they're similar enough, here, look.

1. Main Mirage, tonally compatible guest stories, Image.
2. Usagi
3. Fred Wolf TMNT, Archie TMNT, FW video games, anime, Fleetway.
4. First three live-action movies, TNM, TMNT 07, TMNT 07 comics, TMNT 07 video games.
5. 4Kids, Dreamwave, 4Kids video games.
6. IDW series, Mutants in Manhattan.
7. Nick TMNT, IDW Nick TMNT, Panini TMNT, Nick TMNT video games.
8. Bayturtles, Bayturtles video games.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Man, I just saw all the episodes. I have so much to say, I'll have to type it all in Word first to make sure I don't lose it.

[JH24]

That was fun. That was so much more fun than I expected. I really liked the portrayal of the FW turtles and their designs look so much better when animated. I especially love their expressions.

- Love how FW and Nick Mikey got along so well. Had to laugh during the training session when FW mikey started to play with the ball and the other Mikey joined in, only for Leo to take the ball away.

- I liked how for a moment Shredder and Kraang were so close to victory, both in the first and final episode of the Arc. Really liked their portrayal as well.

- Loved seeing Karai and Shinigami. I couldn't help but laugh at her reaction to the FW turtles. They were either confused or insulted, but poor FW Michelangelo looked really sad.

- Overall the writing was clever, lots of jokes and references.

- Bebop and Rocksteady are no longer villains, and I liked how the FW turtles gave their B&R a new chance as well.

- I liked how they showed the turtles being bored at the beginning. It's nice seeing them in more peaceful times, trying to either relax or figure out what to do next.

===

Anyone notice the scene (and joke) with Timothy in the background and Donnie being bored and trying to figure out what to do next?

I was like... Uhm, there's something you can work on right next to you...

[Vicky82]

There was one unexpected moment that shocked me

Mikey having an angry outburst and then throwing the post box at Traag. I was like Yikes!!!! where did that come from.

It was a shame that Casey, Karai, and Shinigami were only in 1 episode. They just disappeared.

So are the Mutanimals staying with the EPF now at TCRI. They certainly got there quickly.

[Powder]

Not gonna act like this wasn't fun/funny/nostalgic/etc but it wasn't as good as I hoped it would be. They parodied the sh*t out of the Fred Wolf characters, IMO, more than Turtles Forever. & it felt like the Nick turtles were more rude to them this time. Considering their father is dead & they only have so few ties to the world, where's the brotherly love?

First of all, Trans-dimensional Turtles set them up as being a bit goofy/unorthodox, but competent. All of a sudden they're morons who can't fight? What's with that? They need to be completely re-trained? & two nut-shots for Donnie? Really? Rather than retcon their skills, wouldn't it make more sense to just come up with a different sort of roadblock, like the two teams arguing over their approach or something? So that in of itself was irksome to me. But it's like, okay, who exactly are you trying to appeal to by doing that? You dedicate 3 entire episodes of the last season to Fred Wolf homage/pandering/whatever you wanna call it, but then you go and tick off it's core fanbase by making pansies outta the characters despite previously doing them better justice than Turtles Forever... Alright, so is the intention to appeal to stone-faced Mirage fans by saying "Haha, these guys are so useless and stupid, right? Right? Nudge Nudge!"? Can't see that landing properly because you, again, dedicated 3 entire episodes of the last season to Fred Wolf... Fans of the mature stuff still have to sit through wackiness, & fans of the wacky stuff have to deal with their version being made fun of, seems like lose/lose, no?

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have this than not, but I wonder why it really exists in the first place. Is Nick/Viacom pushing for it to boost ratings by trying to grab those nostalgic 30-somethings who remember nothing more than the voices? Ciro made it quite clear from the get-go he wasn't really a fan of the old cartoon at all, yet over time it became more & more like it. So is that Brandon's influence? The executives? Who? Is it forced, & this is their way of railing against it a little bit? It's weird to me, I dunno. I mean no disrespect to the creative team. There's obviously a lot of love put into it, not just ribbing.

My glass half-empty feeling aside, there were a lot of strong points. I laughed along the way, & was bordering on giddy when certain references were made/characters appeared.

-'87 Bebop & Rocksteady were a joy to see/hear. Looked great, sounded great, gave me warm fuzzies.
-What little we saw of the 2D animation was way better & far more on-model than previously, the Technodrome set piece was beautiful.
-Shoutout to the '87 Shredder/Krang musical cue they re-created for this.
-The Foot were an awesome addition. I was amused by their terrible Playmates posture & the inclusion of their toy-only weapon. The ninja moves were cool to see as well. They had Knuckleheads! Rad.
-The turtles' voices were their best in this series. Their initial cameo sounded a bit rough, second was quite close to the original, third was absolutely perfect. Much props to Cam, Rob, Townie, Barry, Pat, & Andrea.
-Nick's B&R deciding to stray from the path of evil, with the implication of a possible Mutanimals join-up was a very fitting send-off for the pair. I liked that.
-FW turtles meeting ICK & Chompy, having a little bit of hangout time in general is always nice.
-Donatello's favorite bo line was a great throwback.
-Loved the Chrome Dome shampoo bottle design.

As far as the story goes, I like the team-up of old & new villains, & the dynamic they had as a collective, but I wish they'd have done something different outside of that. The stakes weren't high enough, for me. I mean, a world ending event like Turtles Forever would just be further retreading, so it's not like I want more of the same, but perhaps instead they could've tried to merge the universes like in the Super Mario movie? I dunno. Plenty of possibilities.

I'd give it a 6.5/10. Competent turtles (& a somewhat less spineless Shredder) in the same story would've made it an 8 or 8.5, bit more variety/higher stakes = 10.

I've rarely been critical of this series, y'all know that. So don't give me sh*t for having an opinion once in a while.

[Utrommaniac]

I had some bits that I liked quite a lot.

Had to stop to laugh at Rocksteady recalling his Mama in his...very Russian way. And his out-of-the-blue offer of a hug to Bebop in the elevator. Their relationship came a pretty long way for that to happen. And there were lots of hugs in this episode.

Then the return of Krang and the shower...though the "shampoo" makes his cleaning up in the suit even more confusing when Shredder apparently seems to shower with his helmet on?

[Ninturtle]

Originally Posted by Powder

Not gonna act like this wasn't fun/funny/nostalgic/etc but it wasn't as good as I hoped it would be. They parodied the sh*t out of the Fred Wolf characters, IMO, more than Turtles Forever. & it felt like the Nick turtles were more rude to them this time. Considering their father is dead & they only have so few ties to the world, where's the brotherly love?

First of all, Trans-dimensional Turtles set them up as being a bit goofy/unorthodox, but competent. All of a sudden they're morons who can't fight? What's with that? They need to be completely re-trained? & two nut-shots for Donnie? Really? Rather than retcon their skills, wouldn't it make more sense to just come up with a different sort of roadblock, like the two teams arguing over their approach or something? So that in of itself was irksome to me. But it's like, okay, who exactly are you trying to appeal to by doing that? You dedicate 3 entire episodes of the last season to Fred Wolf homage/pandering/whatever you wanna call it, but then you go and tick off it's core fanbase by making pansies outta the characters despite previously doing them better justice than Turtles Forever... Alright, so is the intention to appeal to stone-faced Mirage fans by saying "Haha, these guys are so useless and stupid, right? Right? Nudge Nudge!"? Can't see that landing properly because you, again, dedicated 3 entire episodes of the last season to Fred Wolf... Fans of the mature stuff still have to sit through wackiness, & fans of the wacky stuff have to deal with their version being made fun of, seems like lose/lose, no?

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have this than not, but I wonder why it really exists in the first place. Is Nick/Viacom pushing for it to boost ratings by trying to grab those nostalgic 30-somethings who remember nothing more than the voices? Ciro made it quite clear from the get-go he wasn't really a fan of the old cartoon at all, yet over time it became more & more like it. So is that Brandon's influence? The executives? Who? Is it forced, & this is their way of railing against it a little bit? It's weird to me, I dunno. I mean no disrespect to the creative team. There's obviously a lot of love put into it, not just ribbing.

My glass half-empty feeling aside, there were a lot of strong points. I laughed along the way, & was bordering on giddy when certain references were made/characters appeared.

-'87 Bebop & Rocksteady were a joy to see/hear. Looked great, sounded great, gave me warm fuzzies.
-What little we saw of the 2D animation was way better & far more on-model than previously, the Technodrome set piece was beautiful.
-Shoutout to the '87 Shredder/Krang musical cue they re-created for this.
-The Foot were an awesome addition. I was amused by their terrible Playmates posture & the inclusion of their toy-only weapon. The ninja moves were cool to see as well. They had Knuckleheads! Rad.
-The turtles' voices were their best in this series. Their initial cameo sounded a bit rough, second was quite close to the original, third was absolutely perfect. Much props to Cam, Rob, Townie, Barry, Pat, & Andrea.
-Nick's B&R deciding to stray from the path of evil, with the implication of a possible Mutanimals join-up was a very fitting send-off for the pair. I liked that.
-FW turtles meeting ICK & Chompy, having a little bit of hangout time in general is always nice.
-Donatello's favorite bo line was a great throwback.
-Loved the Chrome Dome shampoo bottle design.

As far as the story goes, I like the team-up of old & new villains, & the dynamic they had as a collective, but I wish they'd have done something different outside of that. The stakes weren't high enough, for me. I mean, a world ending event like Turtles Forever would just be further retreading, so it's not like I want more of the same, but perhaps instead they could've tried to merge the universes like in the Super Mario movie? I dunno. Plenty of possibilities.

I'd give it a 6.5/10. Competent turtles (& a somewhat less spineless Shredder) in the same story would've made it an 8 or 8.5, bit more variety/higher stakes = 10.

I've rarely been critical of this series, y'all know that. So don't give me sh*t for having an opinion once in a while.

I agree that the turtles needing to be trained came out no where, but I thought it made sense seeing as their fighting style is unrealistic and goofy and wouldn't work in Nicks universe as well. I found this special to be the funniest of the season, I can see your issues with the episodes but they didn't bother me because the episodes were so well done.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Ninturtle

I agree that the turtles needing to be trained came out no where, but I thought it made sense seeing as their fighting style is unrealistic and goofy and wouldn't work in Nicks universe as well. I found this special to be the funniest of the season, I can see your issues with the episodes but they didn't bother me because the episodes were so well done.

that was the problem though. They set them up as competent in the first show, and KRANG was the goofy one.

Now they kind of made them ALL goofy, and it really pleases no one, except maybe the die hard mirage fans, as it was pointed out above.

It really seemed like a complete 180 from their portrayal on far more even ground in TD turtles. and totally unneeded.

The other thing I didn't see a need for was the vans upgraded weaponry. Totally useless. and Rocksteady destroys the technorome with one misssle launcher, that's far less strong?

sigh. details people.

but, like i said. very small nagging things. i enjoyed most of it from start to finish.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Outside of having the original voice actors, the treatment of the OT turtles wasn't much better than Turtles Forever. I get that the Nick turtles are more "edgier" than their counterparts but this 3-parter made it seem like the FW turtles were useless and couldn't defeat anyone. The FW turtles did not need to be retrained to fight the Foot Soldiers or enemies they have beaten before. That makes no sense. And I get that the joke where FW Leonardo says that cutting someone would hurt was suppose to be self-deprecating but it just seemed silly considering he's been slicing and dicing robot versions of the Foot and cut them many times before. He even swung his sword at Shredder at times in the old cartoon.

I did like the FW turtle's reactions to Nick's April and Casey, with Leonardo commenting on Teen April wearing a jumpsuit.
I laughed real hard at Karai's reaction to the FW turtles.
For some reason, FW Raph seems to have an animosity towards their counterparts by calling them "posers", alot. But I do find it amusing.

It was okay but not as exciting as I thought it would be. Besides having the original voice actors, I'm having a hard time seeing how anyone could like this more than Turtles Forever.

[Leofan26]

So Nick's crossover treatment of 80s turtles is no different than the Turtles Forever treatment for them eh?

Did Nick Leo interact with 80s Leo more?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

When Shredder was drunk, he sounded like Mako's Splinter.