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Old 02-19-2013, 03:58 PM   #21
Avatar Yuffie
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Yes, I wish this show has more girls, yes, I wish April gets a little bit more focus, but I'll judge this if she's treated well after season 1.

But to say TMNT is sexist is and reinforces the evils of patriarchy is where I get off the feminist bus.

Sure April and Karai were given "the girls the guys had hots for thing" but April doesn't seem to be interested and Karai seems to be just trolling Leo while showing off she's independent. She had the foresight to look at the Kraang and defying her father. Sure Tang Shen existed in all continuities to be killed, but she can't helped getting fridged any more than Uncle Ben/Bruce Wayne's parents did.

I think the fans are very unkind to 2012 April, and I really don't understand. Only the OT April is very involved with the Turtles' adventures while those who followed in future adaptations, while very Action Girls and doesn't need to be rescued, aren't much in the limelight at all (and it pains me to say that since I love Archie April, but she wasn't with them most of the time). I know the frustration is that April is the fifth Turtle like Carter and Ninjara and Cody Jones and needs to be with the boys more... but I think the show has yet to make her someone who won't be a liability to them when they fight aliens/mutants/ninjas.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:49 PM   #22
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I'm glad that you only wish to have discussion in support of your view. I disagree with the article and fid it rather whiny. My opinion.

My opinion relevant to this topic is that if a little girl watching TMNT (or any other cartoon, show, etc) has to see a female doing an action or being in a role to understand that she is of value in life, that this is a failing of her family and not a failing of society which requires some group to interject their opinion or comment on the state of society.

So enjoy your thread.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:27 PM   #23
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as a man, i would love any future daughter of mine that i might have to be as smart and independent as nick's april.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:22 PM   #24
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I suppose the problem is April hasn't gotten much screentime yet. This will probably change as the show progresses, but she does get little screentime in the eps she's in.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:39 PM   #25
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Well I read the article and I have to say that I don't agree with it. As far as the 2012 toon goes I think April is just fine. She's more of an action girl this go around...heck she's even training with Splinter! As for the other female characters (Karai and etc.) I think they're ok too. The article just seems whiny and pretty narrow minded.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:57 PM   #26
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If all you want to do is 'discuss April in the new series' then why go out of your way to put the feminist spin on things? Seems like troll bait to me...

On 'topic', I think this is the best version of April ever. I mean, she's my favorite at least. I prefer this design and personality to all others.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:20 PM   #27
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If all you want to do is 'discuss April in the new series' then why go out of your way to put the feminist spin on things? Seems like troll bait to me...

On 'topic', I think this is the best version of April ever. I mean, she's my favorite at least. I prefer this design and personality to all others.
I agree April might need more screen time... but the show is about the TURTLES. And well... all 4 of them are male, kinda hard for it not to be male oriented. Had there been female Turtles since day 1 (as in Mirage # 1, I don't mean New Mutation) it would have been different... but it wasn't that way. Male oriented series with 4 male heroes, it's hard for anyone else to fit into their little quartet without looking for a forced 5th Turtle, be it Zach, Venus or even April.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:28 PM   #28
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I've never really dissected it beyond a simple count, as the turtles I have no issue with. If anything, April in the latest series strikes me as particularly Mary-Sue ish: an attractive, school aged girl, whom at least one of the turtles openly likes, adopted by Splinter to undertake ninjutsu training, and whom actually might have magic powers or is in some way 'special' - sound familiar? But to be fair, her character hasn't really been given a chance to shine yet. Karai's only a little better.
As I learned a long time ago, there in nothing weak about being feminine, (& nor is it the only characteristic of being female).
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:40 PM   #29
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This show does a good job of reminding any male who's socially awkward, nerdy and not male model-looking that they have no right to their sexuality.

Put it in your shell, Donatello, and every other guy (unless you look like this):

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Old 02-19-2013, 08:47 PM   #30
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I love this thread.

I remember when the show was first starting to air, there was some worry here about how much of a non-character April was.

Half a season in, it seems like she's doing better. She feels like a full character, she's competent, and she's not the damsel-in-distress April has sometimes been in the past.

Karai, too, is a strong-ish character from her few appearances.

But what are we really settling for here? As far as we know, two whole women exist in this universe. They're both kids. April can be as spunky as she wants, but she still isn't doing anything without the Turtles at this point. And let's not forget that Karai is Shredder's daughter, has every aspect of her character filtered through being Shredder's daughter and, if you want to take it in franchise context, is based on a character who was originally the extremely competent leader of the entire Foot Clan. Now she seems stuck in a subservient role. (This, by the way, sucks the big one, and has since 2004.)

Bottom line: This show isn't doing anything particularly offensive when it comes to gender. In fact, for its genre, audience and source material, it does a lot of things right. But it could definitely be better, and it's okay to hold it accountable for that.

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I find nothing sexist about this show. The TMNT story is about four male mutant turtles - that's the story being told here. Any other character is going to be a supporting character and won't have as much focus. I find it strange that some people think that the amount of female characters vs. the amount of male characters in a show determines whether or not it's sexist.
It doesn't. It's how they're used. It's what they do. It's how stacked that ratio is.

We have two female characters and, yeah, they're all right. But look at the roles they're in, and it's still an extremely stacked deck in a number of ways.

Yeah, it's a boys' action cartoon. But I don't think it's too much to ask why we can't have more gender-neutral shows of this kind. It's not like I wouldn't let my hypothetical daughter watch this show. Again, April and Karai are pretty good, and maybe this show even comes out ahead of others of its kind. But it'd be nice if there were a slightly stronger role model, or a slightly better ratio, you know?

At this point, it's ahead of IDW though. Which, while also not offensive in any way, suffers from the same problems with arguably fewer strengths.

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If all you want to do is 'discuss April in the new series' then why go out of your way to put the feminist spin on things?
Because when April is fully one-half oft the female presence in this show (and 100 percent of it for the first half-season), the two are entirely linked. In fact, that fact alone should be enough to prompt this conversation.

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yeah...I see this sh*t going well...feminsit anything really seems to raise the hackles of most men including women (with varying degees of justification)
Most women hate feminism? I'm glad I don't know these women.

Last edited by Cipher; 02-19-2013 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:55 PM   #31
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I'm willing to bet if the writers had April go on, "missions" with the Turtles and fought alongside them as a 5th Turtle character or whatever, people would start complaining about how April is a Mary Sue and how it should only be the 4 Turtles again.

What the Nick writers are doing with April is for the best. She's involved in the shows stories without being intrusive, sometimes she needs rescuing and other times she can take care of herself.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:59 PM   #32
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What the Nick writers are doing with April is for the best. She's involved in the shows stories without being intrusive, sometimes she needs rescuing and other times she can take care of herself.
Oh, just to be clear, I totally agree. There's nothing I hate more than April suddenly manifesting ninja skills on par with the Turtles. It's not realistic and, in a way, it diminishes her character to just throw her in as a lesser action hero.

At this point, I'd just settle for April either 1) Getting more spotlight and development or generally being more active (not necessarily with fighting) or 2) Not being one of two female characters on the show, the other of whom is the bad guy's daughter.

April's good, but she still hasn't done much in the show outside of playing one of four roles for the Turtles: sidekick, crush, occasional babysitter or damsel in distress. We can do better.

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Old 02-19-2013, 09:10 PM   #33
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They kind of run into the same problem the 4kids writers had with April, they can't exactly have her involved with the plot as much as say...original toon April. Its amazing how the old toon was able to involve April into the story of almost every episode and she did no fighting in that series whatsoever.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:12 PM   #34
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They kind of run into the same problem the 4kids writers had with April, they can't exactly have her involved with the plot as much as say...original toon April. Its amazing how the old toon was able to involve April into the story of almost every episode and she did no fighting in that series whatsoever.
Unfortunately she also spent ninety percent of her time being kidnapped. :\

Get a little better, get a little worse.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:39 PM   #35
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They kind of run into the same problem the 4kids writers had with April, they can't exactly have her involved with the plot as much as say...original toon April. Its amazing how the old toon was able to involve April into the story of almost every episode and she did no fighting in that series whatsoever.
true but the 4Kids version had Karai, Renet, Sydney, Angel, Joi, it had more females. We only got 2 so far in the new show.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:59 PM   #36
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I would say that this series had no problem having only two female characters, except that it has added a lot of male characters throughout the season. Then again, though, they aren't very good characters, and are up against two females that are well-written.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:03 PM   #37
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true but the 4Kids version had Karai, Renet, Sydney, Angel, Joi, it had more females. We only got 2 so far in the new show.
It's only a matter of time till we get more, I'm sure :3

personally I don't mind the lack of girls as long as the ones we have are cool in their own way I'm fine :3
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:03 PM   #38
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Unfortunately she also spent ninety percent of her time being kidnapped. :\

Get a little better, get a little worse.
April may have gotten in trouble in every episode, but she was fearless and never hesitated to leap into danger. She also does help the Turtles and save the day in a few episodes when you pay attention to it. I also think the writers pairing her with Irma and Vernon showed how she was allowed to be snarky and adventurous with them, making her look like the best role model of the Channel 6 news crew.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:06 PM   #39
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true but the 4Kids version had Karai, Renet, Sydney, Angel, Joi, it had more females. We only got 2 so far in the new show.
Though to be fair April, Angel and Sydney were the most prominent ones in season 1, and only April is the recurring character. The Nick show haven't finished its own run yet.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:01 AM   #40
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I'm glad that you only wish to have discussion in support of your view. I disagree with the article and fid it rather whiny. My opinion.

My opinion relevant to this topic is that if a little girl watching TMNT (or any other cartoon, show, etc) has to see a female doing an action or being in a role to understand that she is of value in life, that this is a failing of her family and not a failing of society which requires some group to interject their opinion or comment on the state of society.

So enjoy your thread.
Yo, you are entirely missing the point. It is just not getting through to you. You have literally nothing to contribute to the discussion about female representation in the show. If you have something constructive and intelligent to add that differs from my opinion, I highly encourage you to add to the discussion. But all you have to give is a condescending "why analyze a show meant for kids??" when you yourself are posting on a website entirely devoted to discussing ninja turtles. For Christ's sake.


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If all you want to do is 'discuss April in the new series' then why go out of your way to put the feminist spin on things? Seems like troll bait to me...
Do you really, seriously think that I made this thread just so I could get more people to scream in my face about how they think feminism is irrelevant? That I am literally baiting people to yell at me?
I want to discuss how /all/ female characters on the show are represented, and that is an inherently feminist discussion. I started with April because she's one of the only two on the show! Geeze.


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/longpost/
I'm glad there's at least a couple people also interested and not just here to remark how they hate feminism. Everything you've said is spot on. I'll have more to say tomorrow when I'm sober and not exhausted.
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