Classic Ep talk: A Thing About Rats

[SherlockJr]

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I *really* hate the scene at April's apartment. While the fact that the turtles didn't really "get" interacting with humans had been a minor plot point before, here they go from "unsocialized" to "two-year-olds". In what world is it acceptable to just throw lipstick at walls? Just how is the Cagney-referencing Raphael not able to tell what a "capful" means? Who the heck told them they could just waltz in like they owned the place? People complain about the original toon turtles being misrepresented in Turtles Forever, and while they may have a case, this episode show that their take is not entirely without precedent, either.

Thank God I'm not the only one who feels this way! The OT is far from realistic, but this--- ugh.

Anyways, I do love this episode, and pretty much agree with the previous posts on what makes it good.

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by SherlockJr

Thank God I'm not the only one who feels this way! The OT is far from realistic, but this--- ugh.

Anyways, I do love this episode, and pretty much agree with the previous posts on what makes it good.

Considering the next two episodes are rather serious, Wise and Howeth decided to spend all the remaining silliness in that scene, if not the entire episode. While I do enjoy the scene, it is one where it helps Turtles Forever and its compelling case about their silliness.

Even though, I am appreciating the episode more and more, I always feel a pang of sadness whenever I see Baxter, knowing what will become of him. Then again, back when we all saw this in 1987, who knew the series would eventually turn him into its version of David Hedison?

Moreover, it's a pity he didn't keep his laid back characterization. Besides not freaking out about seeing Shredder in full villainous garb, he didn't even flinch in seeing Bebop and Rocksteady or the Turtles for the first time, either. As opposed to his high-strung frenized approach for the rest of the series. Oh, well.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Killer Moth

Considering the next two episodes are rather serious, Wise and Howeth decided to spend all the remaining silliness in that scene, if not the entire episode. While I do enjoy the scene, it is one where it helps Turtles Forever and its compelling case about their silliness.

Even though, I am appreciating the episode more and more, I always feel a pang of sadness whenever I see Baxter, knowing what will become of him. Then again, back when we all saw this in 1987, who knew the series would eventually turn him into its version of David Hedison?

Moreover, it's a pity he didn't keep his laid back characterization. Besides not freaking out about seeing Shredder in full villainous garb, he didn't even flinch in seeing Bebop and Rocksteady or the Turtles for the first time, either. As opposed to his high-strung frenized approach for the rest of the series. Oh, well.

Time for a little knoweldge trade Mr. Moth. Pattie Howeth was not David Wise's co-writer. She was intended to be but ended up pulling out of the project and Wise did it all on his own. It may have something to do with the fact she and Wise were engaged and they broke it off around that time.

As for my question who is David Hedison? I ask here opposed to a search engine to make sure I understand your comparison.

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by mikeandraph87

Time for a little knoweldge trade Mr. Moth. Pattie Howeth was not David Wise's co-writer. She was intended to be but ended up pulling out of the project and Wise did it all on his own. It may have something to do with the fact she and Wise were engaged and they broke it off around that time.

As for my question who is David Hedison? I ask here opposed to a search engine to make sure I understand your comparison.

I didn't know that about Howeth. She still has a story credit in "Return of the Shredder," and then she's gone from the series. Although, that fact of their engagement and break-up might explain a few things, as I'm not familiar with her writing style, anyway, and can't yet tell which story elements were hers and which ones were Wise's.

As for Hedison, he played the 50's version of "The Fly." I suppose I could have mentioned Jeff Goldblum, instead, as people would be more familiar with his version, yet the series' throwbacks to the 50's-60's era made the Hedison reference more apt. Anyway, enjoy "The Fly" trailer and theater cards in the video below.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Killer Moth

I didn't know that about Howeth. She still has a story credit in "Return of the Shredder," and then she's gone from the series. Although, that fact of their engagement and break-up might explain a few things, as I'm not familiar with her writing style, anyway, and can't yet tell which story elements were hers and which ones were Wise's.

As for Hedison, he played the 50's version of "The Fly." I suppose I could have mentioned Jeff Goldblum, instead, yet the series' throwbacks to the 50's-60's era made the Hedison reference more apt. Anyway, enjoy "The Fly" trailer video below.

Here it is. Its been about three years since I saw this video which Wise revealed the other name credit is his ex-fiancee'/wife. She was to help him when he was "sick of writing cartoons" but "quickly realized she was useless as she was not a writer".

I can never get the youtube link to work so here is the hyperlink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRUHMVbf_hg

I appreciate he disassociates himself with Carter,Dregg, and Zack! Note that there is a second part to this.

I actually saw the original version about seven months ago but I did not know the names of any of the actors. I see what you are referring to now.

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by mikeandraph87

Here it is. Its been about three years since I saw this video which Wise revealed the other name credit is his ex-fiancee'/wife. She was to help him when he was "sick of writing cartoons" but "quickly realized she was useless as she was not a writer".

I can never get the youtube link to work so here is the hyperlink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRUHMVbf_hg

I appreciate he disassociates himself with Carter,Dregg, and Zack! Note that there is a second part to this.

I actually saw the original version about seven months ago but I did not know the names of any of the actors. I see what you are referring to now.

My thanks for the video. I don't have the time to view it properly now, but I will later. At least, Wise didn't do what some writers would do: swipe at their ex through their fiction. (Looking at you, Scott Lobdell.)

Anyway, I'll be doing my share of Hedison references in the "Enter: The Fly" thread, as I'll hopefully post on that, soon. I want to post on "Hot Rodding Teenagers" next.

To get back on topic a little, interesting how the Ajax manager apparently doesn't understand economics and how he'd be sitting on a gold mine as less rats is a good thing, due to that silly detail -- like being a public health hazard. Not to mention, the Mouser could be reprogrammed for other pests, as well. Or am I missing something?

The point was to give a pretense for Baxter to be with Shredder, yet apparently Wise couldn't think of a less facepalm-ish way about it. Oh, well.

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by Mouse

this episode is strangely placed as the second movie on the FHE home video "Hot Rodding Teenagers".

Growing up I always found it odd having owned all the VHS tapes this was the next episode! Now owning the DVD set it makes much more sense.

I do like this episode but it was so odd an entire apartment building was destroyed and there was 0 mention of the people who died.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

I do like this episode but it was so odd an entire apartment building was destroyed and there was 0 mention of the people who died.

It was odd, but I assumed that since the Mousers were chewing their way up to April's apartment (who knows how many floors it was though), those residents saw the destructive nature of it that it made people leave the apartment quickly.

LOL... yeah it was still odd though considering the odds.

[Pterobat]

If this thread's open again, I'm going to go full nerd with some point-form reviewing:

Oh hey, one of my favourites, due to my childhood Splinter obsession, and my new liking for Baxter Stockman.

I can't remember if I actually saw this episode as a kid: I still have my tattered colouring book adaptation, "Rat Trap", but as for watching the actual animation, your guess is as good as mine.

The continuity as this episode opens is nice, as the Turtles are still focused on restoring Splinter to his human form, though soon he'll decide he is comfortable as a rat (unlike my *other* favourite character in this show).

One thing I like about this episode, as opposed to some later ones, is that even if Splinter and even April are at a disadvantage and end up being rescued by the Turtles, they stand up and fight back.

For example, I love the scene of Splinter and April facing down the Mousers with just chops and kitchen equipment--they might not win alone, but at least they get up and try. I wish the secondary characters showing more initiative was a consistent thing in this show, but I appreciate it when it happens, here and in some of the Sarnath episodes.

Baxter fascinates / annoys me because unlike any other incarnation of the character, he starts off ordinary and unvillainous but later turns evil, and we never know why. I also find it odd that he might have been raceswapped to avoid having another black villain, but then he didn't appear evil at first anyway. In fact, this easily could have been Baxter's last appearance.

As for the question of Baxter's innocence--a distinction between knowingly and unknowingly doing evil should be made, but it doesn't mean he gets off scot-free. He gave Shredder the Mousers, and stood back and did nothing else, so there's something on his conscience at least, something deserving punishment.

Originally Posted by Killer Moth

Even though, I am appreciating the episode more and more, I always feel a pang of sadness whenever I see Baxter, knowing what will become of him. Then again, back when we all saw this in 1987, who knew the series would eventually turn him into its version of David Hedison?

Moreover, it's a pity he didn't keep his laid back characterization. Besides not freaking out about seeing Shredder in full villainous garb, he didn't even flinch in seeing Bebop and Rocksteady or the Turtles for the first time, either. As opposed to his high-strung frenized approach for the rest of the series. Oh, well.

I don't think Baxter's silence is due to stoicism, though--more like he belatedly realized what he's gotten himself into, but isn't strong enough to walk away, so he freezes up and hopes nobody notices him any more than they need to, and that he can walk away unscathed. So much for that...

I like the personality in Baxter's character animation when he first appears, too: very twitchy and eager as he shows off the Mouser to the guy.

It still doesn't quite make sense that Baxter would go off with a stranger cloaked in shadow, but I can sort of see why. Baxter is both stupid and arrogant: "It's about time somebody discovered me!"--he leaves his name on the Mousers, which Donnie actually calls him an idiot on. Pride mixed with desperation can get some terrible results.

(One thing I noticed was that Baxter is rarely called by his last name, while other versions are most often called "Stockman", which might accidentally show the lack of respect the FW version has / earns)

Anyway, I like it whenever the series comments on the Turtles possibly messing up April's life and routine. It's the kind of wryness I wish the series had more of, which is why I approve of the apartment chaos that goes on.

(Also, like me, April loves her giant purses.)

Maybe it's the wanton destruction of property that's inherent in Mousers that was the real problem, you think?

I flip-flop on how much I agree with the notion that season 1 was the "ideal" for the OT. Sometimes I like the upgraded goofiness of later episodes, and on the other end, sometimes season 1 isn't as refined as it seems. The destruction of the apartment building and how everybody laughs it off is one of the worst examples of that second thing, though I imagine that the writers either didn't care, or assumed it was an edited-Dragonball-Z-dub deal, where the rest of the building was "conveniently" empty.

I can't help but think Baxter's warehouse apartment reminds me of Seth Brundle's, though I'm sure that's not intentional.

I know it's weird, but I think it's really, really hilarious the way Raph threatens to stab Baxter in the face, and the way the Turtles gank his van like it's no big deal.

And oh yeah, some continuity errors. Or the Foot Soldiers and Krang can both travel *really* damn fast.

You know, I totally believe Krang was desperate enough for "A bawwwddeeeee!" that he would help the Turtles. Easy as anything.

Some bits of animation and art in this episode are good, others are bad. It's a really mixed bag.

It's a fun one.

[BlindFaith]

This is an OK episode but I don't find it as memorable as the previous two.

I don't care that much for Baxter pre-mutation but one of my favorite scenes in this episode is when Shredder, cast in shadows, approaches Baxter in the ally behind the Ajax Pest Control. There's this looming music in the background as Shredder steps forward "A short sighted fool doesn't know what he's missing!" Great atmosphere in that scene!

Besides that, the episode is good at building upon the Shredder-Krang rivalry! And seeing the Turtles in April's apartment was very refreshing and humorous!

[BlindFaith]

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I *really* hate the scene at April's apartment. While the fact that the turtles didn't really "get" interacting with humans had been a minor plot point before, here they go from "unsocialized" to "two-year-olds". In what world is it acceptable to just throw lipstick at walls? Just how is the Cagney-referencing Raphael not able to tell what a "capful" means? Who the heck told them they could just waltz in like they owned the place? People complain about the original toon turtles being misrepresented in Turtles Forever, and while they may have a case, this episode show that their take is not entirely without precedent, either.

I personally like the scene because it shows the Turtles "out of their element" so to speak. They're in a civilized environment with all of the culture, commercial products and whatever else comes with it.

But I do agree with you that with their morale and ethics they would not behave as stupid as they did in that scene. I guess it was a way for the writers to have some fun with the civilized apartment complex vs "growing up in the sewers with Splinter" idea

[cammy85]

Good points, Blindfaith!! This must've been the most time they've spent on the surface so far. So you can't really blame them for screwing up but yeah, they should've known better.

[mikey22]

doyou love the vhs tapes how they showed this in the wrong order! i was so confused as a kid until i figured it out lol

[MikeandRaph87]

That brings me to ask,how were episodes chosen for VHS release? Some really good ones never got released. Heck a grand total of 38% made it but some great ones left out and some subpar ones made it instead. Thankfully DVDs made up for that but oh the agnozing year in between!

Best part of the episode was Mike volunteered to go in alone and Krang's part leading to the group not believing Mike about Krang's partnership with Shredder. With all the sci-fi they watch and the fact they are mutated by alien chemicals they didn't believe Mike seemed odd.

How did you like the episode's star Mike driving without any practice? Awesome!

The one person that was legitimately attempted to be killed was Baxter Stockman. This character cannot catch any breaks.Easily the most abused character in the franchise. Shredder wanted the foot soldiers to kill the man. Too bad he did not send them out to do something like that later on in the series.

[BlindFaith]

That's a really good question I think...I wonder if the companies behind the VHS releases gave it much thought. It seemed to be very random - sometimes the appeal/idea behind some of those "two or three episode VHS collections" seems to be exactly that - Here's a couple of random Turtle adventures that you may not have seen before! Perfect just to pop into the VCR and have fun for an hour or two but nothing more. It's also I guess a bit of a money grab in those times when Turtles were really hot...People buying many tapes to get more episodes.

Michelangelo suggests that one turtle have a better chance than three and Raphael is the one basically taking him up on it . But I agree, I also think this is part of his character development. If you remember, at the start of the previous episode, Mike fights Leonardo on the mat and gets "smoked" because he still needs to learn to be "patient" and "cool"...I think he displays some of that in these later episodes.


Yes, Baxter is definitely at the receiving end a great deal but he's also the first outside guy to know of Shredder and his operations which is why Shredder wants him out of the way. Shredder needed his technology but now "he knows too much"! Shredder was right too, it only takes Raphael to threaten to get "sarcastic" to make Baxter spill all the beans on Shredder and his whereabouts