The Nintendo Discussion Thread

[ThirdMarioBro]

bout' fu*king time. Welcome to the club JameO.

On another note....

Nintendo and EA are sleeping with each other again. Now Nintendo's going to let them use the almight Super Punch Out in their new Boxing game (forget the name, don't care to remember). I'm getting royally pissed. Nintendo keeps handing them gold piece after gold piece. It's getting old fast. It dosen't seem to increse sales, and it just seems to downgrade the image of Ninty's franchises. Bah, no point ranting. Not going to do anything...

On another note, Sony's begun building hype in the US for the PSP. I saw an ad for it at the movie theatre a while ago. Nintendo's going to be in trouble soon. This is going to be a messy year.

[Kid Icarus]

Come on Ninty... Pokemon DS... MMORPG... You know you wanna... >_>.

Really though, it'd pry be best to wait till Sony's hype machine's reaching full gear, then go "POKEMON MMORPG FREE ONLINE PLAY OMGOMG!" all over everything. TV, print, instore ads, movies, at Pokemon TCG events.... it'd be CRAZY.

[ThirdMarioBro]

Okay, I've always believed that Steven Kent was a wise man, but he went too far this time. This article bounces all over the place. He makes osme good points and then crosses himself up.


LONG ASS POST. You've been warned


_____________________________
Steve Kent's 7 rules for fixing Nintendo

----------------------------------------------------------------


"In this generation of console wars, GameCube came in third. Game Boy
Advance is obsolete. The initials DS may be short for ‘Definitely
Struggling’ instead of ‘Dual Screen’ if Sony launches PlayStation
Portable (PSP) at a reasonable price next year.

Nintendo, the company that re-launched and re-defined the video game
business, has been battered in the console business and looks like it
might be ripe for wreckage in handhelds.

The Situation:

As Microsoft entered the console wars, a lot of people asked, “Can
the market support three competitors?” The answer seems to be,
“Yes, but the guy who comes in last always dies.”

In 1986, Atari tried to compete with newcomers Nintendo and Sega. It
didn’t work and Atari wisely chose to sit out the 16-bit generation
before committing corporate hari-kari in the form of Jaguar.

In 1989, Sega and NEC started the 16-bit generation with Genesis and
TurboGrafx. Nintendo entered two years later, knocked NEC out of the
way; and the U.S. market never saw another NEC console again.

Sony did the same thing to Sega in the next generation. Sega Saturn
came in third place—not including 3DO and Jaguar. Sega did come back
with Dreamcast, but no company that has come in third has survived the
next generation.

4 In the current market, Nintendo has come in third place.
Could Nintendo follow in the steps of Sega, 3DO, and Atari and go
software only? With its many great franchises, Nintendo would be quite
the hit as a third-party publisher. Only, isn’t that what people said
about Sega?

The truth is that the Atari of today bears almost no relationship to the
Atari of the eighties. The Atari of old was cut in half. Both halves
have been sold and resold. The company currently known as Atari is
really a French company called Infogrames.

After a long fight, 3DO ceased to exist. Sega, the company that once
boasted it would supplant Electronic Arts as the number one independent
publisher, never lives up to its potential. Without hardware to
support, former console makers seem to give up their competitive drive.

So is Nintendo going to go the way of Sega and Atari? The short answer
is, ‘No.’,” says John Taylor, managing director and analyst for
Arcadia Investment Corp. “Sega made a bunch of missteps. Sega had to
deal with 32X, Sega CD, and a bunch of peripherals that confused
consumers, ate up resources, and distracted management.”

Granted, Nintendo has not released anything as notorious 32X, though
Virtual Boy came close. On the other hand, with Game Boy Advance SP
(Nintendo of America plans to discontinue the original GBA) and DS
running side-by-side, the company does have two systems confusing
consumers, eating resources, and distracting management.

And this muddle appropriately happens as Sony prepares to launch PSP.
“On the console side, it’s harder to imagine where Nintendo fits in
now than it was 12 months ago,” says Taylor.
When asked, the clerk at a GameStop store in Hawaii said that his store
had sold out of PlayStation 2 and Xbox. “We still have GameCubes in
stock.”

Asked why he still had GameCubes, he stated that it was fine for a
certain audience. “Xbox and PlayStation 2 are better for 15- to
30-year-olds. Most of the people who come here are between 15 and
30.”
The clerk said that DS was ‘awesome, but hard to find.’ “We only
get six in per week.” He suggested that I reserve a PSP, though he
could not say what the price would be.
Calls to game stores in Washington, New York, and California produce
similar results—though the clerks are seldom as friendly.
So this is the situation. Nintendo has been marginalized in the
console business. It will shortly face a most significant challenge its
portable business. Nintendo needs to make some fundamental changes.
The following are steps Nintendo must take to prosper over the next 18
months:

1. Abandon the ‘belle of the ball’ mentality.

Nintendo needs to abandon its former “star of the show” mentality
and start acting like a company that knows it’s in trouble. The good
news is that the Kyoto-giant has greatly improved one of its biggest
weaknesses—third-party relations. The bad news is that Nintendo’s
console sales are so low that even though they feel welcomed, many
publishers are not sure they want to jump on board with Nintendo.
“Nintendo has done a better job of working with third-party
publishers,” says Taylor. “The third parties aren’t worried about
the business model so much as they are about the GameCube’s market
potential.”
In other words, fewer people own GameCube, and those people seem to buy
less software than PlayStation 2 and Xbox owners.
Part of the problem is that Nintendo has abandoned the principles of
service that made it such a force.
Nintendo is notably more harsh than Microsoft or Sony in its handling
of smaller publications and fan sites. Right now, Nintendo needs to
cultivate allies and advocates. In a society filled with opinion
leaders, i.e. the Internet, Nintendo must court influential fans.
Along this same line, Nintendo needs to acknowledge the competition.
Nintendo executives say that DS and PSP were made for different
audiences. The truth is that when customers walk into Wall-Mart or
GameStop with $200, they are going to compare DS and PSP and choose one
over the other.
And these annual shortages… what’s with that? Nintendo has a
shortage of DS units. Do they think that is chic? They had similar
shortages after the launches of GameCube, N64, and Super NES. You would
learn how to manage inventory by now.
There is no logical reason for Nintendo to waste this window of time
before the launch of PSP. Yet here we are. With PSP supposedly
launching in three months, Nintendo is excitedly telling the press how
they cannot keep up with demand for DS.
Why in the world are GameStop and Electronics Boutique stores, arguably
the most influential chains in gaming, only receiving six DS units per
week? They should be saturated with DS systems.
The Nintendo of old, the one that sold approximately 100 million NESs,
simply tried harder. In the early days, NCL president Hiroshi Yamauchi
personally courted third-party publishers. Nintendo of America
president Minoru Arakawa met with store owners in New York and promised
to buy back unsold merchandise and helped set up a few store displays.
In order to regain market share, Nintendo needs to return to its former
Avis mentality. It needs to try harder.

2. Forget the bottom line.

In 1990, Nintendo and the NES owned 93 percent of the U.S. console
business. In 1994, the hottest year for 16-bit, the Super NES commanded
approximately 48 percent of the U.S. market and ruled in Japan. By the
end of the N64 generation, Nintendo was down to 33 percent of the
American console market. With GameCube, Nintendo is down to
approximately 15 percent.
That is a nearly steady drop of 50 percent from one generation to the
next.
The typical Nintendo response to this is something along the line of
their console business always remaining profitable. It’s a good and
persuasive response. Even as Sony strangled Nintendo in all three world
markets in the last year of the original PlayStation, Nintendo managed
to make money with N64 while Sony leaked like a sieve.
The problem is that if Nintendo’s share of the market keeps getting
smaller, the next generation will not be profitable.
There is another danger, too—people perceiving Nintendo as a company
that does not care about its customers. Granted, companies are only out
for themselves, but that does not mean they need to come across that
way.
A few years back, Nintendo defined ‘connectivity’ as meaning,
“You buy a $150-console, a $99-portable, a $10-cable, a $49-console
game, and a $29-portable cartridge.” That definition of
‘connectivity’ sounded awfully self-serving.

[ThirdMarioBro]

Part 2 (too long for one post)
_______________________

3. Know your market and stick to it.

“You could argue that Nintendo still has a defendable position with a
certain demographic,” says John Taylor. Taylor sees that demographic
as the youth market, but the research does not necessarily agree.
Recent surveys showed that the most desirable games for fourth and
fifth graders were “Halo 2” and “Grand Theft Auto: San
Andreas.” Most 10-year-old boys want whatever games their big
brothers want. What few 10-year-olds want is to look uncool.
“Wario” games are not perceived as cool.
The Hawaiian GameStop clerk identified PlayStation 2 and Xbox as
systems with games for players ages 15 to 30. He could not come up with
a target market for GameCube, even when pressed. All he would say was,
“Most of our customers are between 15 and 30.”
As N64 faded and GameCube launched, Nintendo sent out the message that
it was not just for kids. The problem is that none of the adult games
that followed, “Conker’s Bad Fur Day,” “Perfect Dark,”
“Eternal Darkness,” and the “Resident Evil” series, sold well or
drove hardware sales.
Here, the analysts and experts disagree. Some people say that Nintendo
needs to cultivate its position as the manufacturer of family-friendly
video game systems. “Nintendo cannot compete with Microsoft and
Sony,” said one reporter. “Nintendo is like a company.”
Others say that Nintendo can indeed change its stripes. “Look at
Cadillac,” says Taylor. “It used to be the car your grandfather
drove in the suburbs. Now, with its change of image, Cadillac is the
high-prestige car for urban drivers.”

4. Americanize, Americanize, Americanize

The bottom has dropped out of the Japanese video game market. It
shrank by one-third in 2001 alone. Japan, which bought the least
hardware and the most software in the past, was the most profitable
market in games. Now that the drop has occurred, North American is the
most lucrative market.
Only one Japanese company made it into the U.S. market’s top 10 games
of 2003—Nintendo. Nintendo had four games in the top 10—two of
which were “Pokemon.”
“Cute,” “Fluffy,” and “Funny,” words that describe so many
of the best Japanese games, just don’t appeal the way they used to.
American audiences are into speed, action, violence. Americans like 3D
adventures and first-person shooters. These are not big genres in
Japan. Sports, other than soccer, are huge in the United States.
Sports, other than soccer, do not sell well in Japan.
Nintendo has one shooter—“Metroid Prime.” The company has
abandoned sports.
“Nintendo needs to develop a Western-centric development network,”
says Taylor, and he is right. The problem is that with the admirable
exception of Retro Studios, Nintendo seems content letting second-party
partners like Rare and Silicon Knights slip away.

5. Keep doing what you do right

As angry and pessimistic as some gamers have become about Nintendo,
other insiders believe that Nintendo is doing many things exactly
right. “Nintendo is listening to a good mixture of customers and game
developers,” says Richard Doherty, research director of
Envisioneering.
Had Nintendo read the reviewers and bulletin boards, the Pokemon series
might have died two or three years ago. It didn’t, and Pokemon
“Ruby” and “Sapphire” both made it on to the NPD Group’s list
of the top 10 selling games of 2003. “Fire Red” and “Leaf
Green” are among the top sellers of 2004.
Many reviewers complained about the cel-shaded look of the new
“Zelda” game right up until the release of “Wind Waker.” Then
they proclaimed it. Now Nintendo is effectively breaking the
“Zelda” franchise into two separate lines with the ‘adult Link’
in games with more realistic graphics and the ‘young Link’ remaining
in cartoon-like cel-shading.
Despite all of the criticisms, Nintendo still manages to do many things
better than any other company in the business.

6. Stop with the mid-course corrections and hold to the basics

What did Sony and Microsoft do that was so brilliant with the launches
of their first console systems? Nothing. But even when things went
wrong, they kept to their game and that made a difference.
Saturn smeared PlayStation during the launch window in Japan. The
following year, N64 out-launched both of them. Sony did not falter.
Ken Kutaragi went right on making alliances, arranging exclusive games,
and building an empire.
Sony’s growth was insidious in Japan. First it was behind both
Saturn and N64, then it was behind only N64, then it ruled the market.
For two years after the launch of Xbox, people joked that Xbox should
be called the “Halo Delivery System.” But Microsoft remained
steady. Microsoft executives arranged exclusive deals with unlikely
partners such as Tecmo and Ubi Soft. Games continued to look better on
Xbox. More recently, Microsoft broke Sony’s stranglehold on online
support from EA Sports.
Sony may have sold more hardware in this generation, but Microsoft
ended the generation with the chic factor.
Sony has always said that it pandered to the Playboy crowd—not
meaning Playboy readers, but rather suggesting that sophisticated and
older demographic. Microsoft said it was going after a tech-savvy
crowd. Even when Sony executives publicly berated their counterparts at
Microsoft, both companies stayed the course.
And Nintendo? Nintendo has bounced around. First GameCube was the
safe system for kids, then it grew up and competed with Sony and
Microsoft, only to become a system children and parents could trust.
The same thing has happened with GBA. First GBA SP’s clamshell
design was to make it more adult-friendly. Then DS materialized, and
GBA SP turns out to have been a kids system all along.
Nintendo needs to pick a strategy and stick to it; and in no area is
that more important than in handhelds.

7. Either do Revolution right or don’t do Revolution at all

In the end, Nintendo is going to need to make a stand. Executives at
both Sony and Microsoft have made comments about Nintendo owning the
handheld market. Now Sony has invaded that space. Microsoft may still
follow.
Nintendo should make its stand with Revolution. To do this, Nintendo
needs to do a lot of things right from the start.

First, it’s time for Nintendo to discover the Internet. In Kyoto,
just like the rest of the world, people access to the Internet and for
more than a game of “Phantasy Star Online.” Nintendo executives
admit that not adding DVD capability to GameCube hurt them, it’s to
make the same admission with the Internet. People may not use Xbox
Live, but they want the option.

Next, it’s time for Nintendo executives to listen to what their
customers tell them. People like pretty graphics. People want the same
games with better graphics. Nintendo executives say they want
Revolution to be as revolutionary as DS. Fine, but make sure the
graphics are hugely improved.

Not everyone agrees with this. Richard Doherty compliments Nintendo
for not trying to “create a super computer in a $300 game box.”
This, he says, is what will separate Nintendo from Microsoft and Sony.
But if Microsoft and Sony are successful, that separation may not be
good.

The truth is that if good old “Madden NFL” looks better and plays
better on PlayStation 3 and NextBox, Maddeneers are going to buy those
systems. And, for the record, “Madden NFL 2004” was the best
selling game of 2003.

The best of all worlds would be for Nintendo to join forces with
Microsoft. Nintendo would handle Japan, Microsoft would launch in the
United States. Microsoft would make the box, Nintendo would make the
controller. Software would be shared.

Since that is not going to happen, Nintendo needs to launch on time
with good software and a strong proprietary library. If Microsoft
launches in 2005, Nintendo should launch in 2005 as well. Do not pull a
Dreamcast/3DO and come out too early, but do not allow the competition a
one-year head start. Contrary to what former Nintendo VP Peter Main
said in his final press conference, there is no benefit in coming last
to the party.
Finally Nintendo needs to have enough hardware at launch. Avoid
shortages—real or trumped up—and fill the channel.

Nintendo can still recapture much its former glory, even in this
competitive marketplace. If the Red Socks can break their 50-year
curse, Nintendo can break out. What Nintendo cannot do is continue to
make the same old mistakes and survive."

________________________

[ThirdMarioBro]

Almost done, I promise....

1. Abandon the ‘belle of the ball’ mentality.
Yeah, act like you're in trouble and covering your ass. Good way to gain consumer support. People don't buy what looks like a sinking ship.

2. Forget the bottom line.
That much I'll agree with. They have to realize they're going to have to loose some cash and invest in some REAL advertising. Movie theatres, TV, print, and everything else at once.

3. Know your market and stick to it.
So he's basically saying Nintendo is for kids,a nd they should never aspire to be anything more?...
If you admit you're a kid's company, then you're going to be stuck to a few rules. 1. The parental groups will then have reason to attack you for any "non family friendly" thing you do, and you'll have no way to fight because, you said it yourself "Nintendo is a kid's company". Ever heard of the rageing granny's? They're just itching for this announcement. Nintendo needs to branch out, not shrink they're market even more.

Oh, and perfect Dark wasn't even on Gamecube.....neither was Conker (thanks Peanut)

4. Americanize, Americanize, Americanize
Oh yes, turn yourself into your competition. Real way to define yourself. Nintendo needs to expand soe in the US, but not at the cost of what they are. They're a Japanese company. They just need to establish some better third party ties to take care of the generic stuff Americans tend to buy. They're working on that.

5. Keep doing what you do right

Sooo, he just balled them out for everything they've been doing, and now tells them to keep on doing it? The man's a walking contradiction.

6. Stop with the mid-course corrections and hold to the basics

They are. Gamecube has been slowly on the rise lately, and this year they're going to smear everything. They're finally getting off they're ass and giving their fans what they want. They making console exclusive FPS's for the American market, they're FINALLY giving us the Zelda we really wanted, and Mario 128 ACTUALLY exists and is coming. They're slowly changing to accomidate the demands of what the fans want, while gradually bringing in the innovation to go along with it (DS).

7. Either do Revolution right or don’t do Revolution at all
How can he be saying this when no one has any idea what in the hell Revolution is? Oh, and Nintendo's not listening to their fans? See number 6.
And "Up the Graphics"? Hasn't he seen the EA images? They were almost photorealistic.

Steven Kent is ranting on about things that don't even make sense. yeah, the GBA is 4 years old. It kicked DS and PSP's asses combined in Japan last year (only counting Christmas sales), and it always did so to superior competatiors in the past. Know your history Kent. Jsut because it's older technology dosen't mean it is instantly dead. He writes the DS off as though it's been nothing but a failure since release. Graphical Prowess is not everything, ESPECIALLY in a handheld where the graphics aren't as easily seen. Oh, and the DS's screens may be samller, but they're a hell of a lot brighter than what people will have to run the PSP at to see it. People don't want to play a game on a console, then go play the same exact game on their handheld. They want something they can play fast, and in a hurry because they won't have much time.

Oh, and that "Nintendo would work great as a third party" crap? That's what everything said about Sega. Now they're a bought out former giant that makes games like "Amazing Island". They have no spunk left.

Sorry for the triple post here, but it wouldn't fit otherwise.

[Peanut]

That guy is just a ranting jackass. He stumbles all over the place and makes points that come nowhere close to being valid.

[Kid Icarus]

Actually, TMB, I can see where he's comming from.

Nintendo hasn't really changed with the market. We keep hearing that "we're working on building up ______" and then they get rid of what ever was helping them do it (example, changing their kiddy image. Had Eternal Darkness been given a PROPER ad campaign, that game could have been HUGE, as it should have been). They arn't being aggressive anymore, and they're at the point where they have to be.

Revolution's going to be a "put up or shut up" deal I think. Nintendo can't afford to make the same mistakes they made with the N64, and then again with the Gamecube, a third time. Hardware's going to be expensive this time around, it'll have to be. They're going to have to lose money on ads, and they're going to have to cut liscenisng fees to exactly where Sony and Microsoft have them.

If Revolution fails, I strongly belive Nintendo won't have any other choice but to move solely to the handheld market. That is, if they can keep it. He makes another good point about them not being able to keep up stock of DS's. It works for a while, yes, but if they're still having these problems when the PSP hits do you really think people are going to wait to pick up a system? No. They'll grab the PSP and Metal Gear Acid.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fanboy to the end.... but it'd just be stupid to ignore the problems Nintendo has as a company. If they don't improve their buisness, we might not have Nintendo games much father after this next generation. And like I said, I'm starting to get tired of the "we're improving it" line. If it was getting improved, Gamecubes would be flying off shelves. They're not, and Nintendo really needs to figure out how to fix that.

[Peanut]

I'm really not seeing any light at the end of this tunnel. The world is just changing too much. Old Skool isn't going to last forever, nothing lasts forever. This whole gangsta-sizing of society has really brought out the "you need this to be cool" attitude in just about everything. Nintendo just isn't cool anymore, lets face it. Ludacris is singing about PS2's, 50-Cent is singing about the Xbox...Nintendo doesn't even get a line in a popular rap song. Things have to change or be swept away, and I fear more and more Nintendo is headed for that latter route.

[愛]

I agree. Something needs to be done. Nintendo can't just sit around and wait for some miracle. They need to advertise, and appeal to the general public, even if they have to submit to the rap community. Their fan base is large, but they can't survive on that alone. They need new "recruits." If they don't do this soon, I don't see much in their future. That'll make me sad, indeed.

[Kid Icarus]

And, once again, the day Nintendo stops making games is the day I stop playing them.

[ThirdMarioBro]

Same here. The thought makes me depressed.

*writes editorial on subject*

[jeff the cheff]

I actually did hear "gamecube" in some rap song. It was no 50 cent or ludacris, but it was there!

[ThirdMarioBro]

Last night's rant from Steven Kent stirred up some conterversy, but here's some good stuff. I won't repost the article, because he asked me not too, but you gotta read this. This one is gold.

http://gc.advancedmn.com/article.php...pg=1&comments=

This man is my boss. I love my job.

[Kid Icarus]

Update on my Mario 64 DS progress. 119 stars. All that's left is 4 from that stupid rainbow cruise level that I hate with amazing ammounts of passion, some 100 coin stars (every level after the ghost house), and the castles secret stars. Olmost there.

[ThirdMarioBro]

Figured it out, I got the last of the mini-game rabbits, and after wandering about the castle forever, got the day-glo rabbits.

150 Stars = This game's been owned.

In other news, there's news going on of financial dealings between Nintendo and Silicon Knights. IGN keeps dropping hints, and the rumor is it's a buyout ala Retro Studios. Please God let it be true. Perhaps they're finally kicking into action.

[Kid Icarus]

If that's true, then it proves there's a god!

[愛]

Silicon Knights, eh? That sounds pretty huge. Maybe there is some hope.

[ThirdMarioBro]

And it would prove that all out mindless rambelings aren't just hopeless dreams.

*prays*

[Barkworm]

Nintendo should also buy Capcom and Namco. That would be more than interesting.

[ThirdMarioBro]

No, that'd be heaven. They should start with Capcom. They have it coming.

Bah, Silicon Knights would be more than enough to make me happy.