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Old 09-21-2016, 10:46 PM   #101
Andrew NDB
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Originally Posted by BubblyShell22 View Post
True story: There was a case in Elkhart, Indiana where five kids went and broke into a guy's home. The guy was armed and shot one of the kids and he died. Instead of charging the homeowner who was defending his home against intruders, they charged the kids with the murder and they are now in jail and are infamously known as The Elkhart Four.
Of course the homeowner shouldn't be charged but... why would the kids be charged with the murder? Breaking and entering and attempted burglary and all that, of course. Some states have... oddities.
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Old 09-21-2016, 10:48 PM   #102
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Of course the homeowner shouldn't be charged but... why would the kids be charged with the murder? Breaking and entering and attempted burglary and all that, of course. Some states have... oddities.
Kind of a
Obvious, right? Their actions triggered the homeowner. The court decided it was the kids at fault.

Obvious.
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Old 09-21-2016, 10:57 PM   #103
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Kind of a
Obvious, right? Their actions triggered the homeowner. The court decided it was the kids at fault.

Obvious.
I dunno... if I say, hey, Commenter 42, let's go pull a lick on this 7-Eleven with pistols, you agree, and the attendant blows you away with a shotgun... I don't know that I should be going down for your murder. While the attendant has the right to blow you or I away, he didn't have to... that is not an action that either of us forced.
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Old 09-21-2016, 11:00 PM   #104
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I dunno... if I say, hey, Commenter 42, let's go pull a lick on this 7-Eleven, you agree, and the attendant blows you away with a shotgun... I don't know that I should be going down for your murder.
But, causality? You initiated the action, involved me...
The store clerk was only defending himself.

Aren't you then to blame?

I get your point, but, really, maybe it's not even you at fault. Maybe it's bigger than that. Maybe your in a no win senario, institutionalized poverty, all that jazz.

Like, if you watch Warren take down Wells Fargo CEO, she's holding him accountable, even though he wasn't directly commiting the crime, He instigated it.

Last edited by Commenter 42; 09-22-2016 at 04:56 AM.
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Old 09-22-2016, 04:51 AM   #105
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I'm with c42 on this. If you initiate the action, you should face the consequences.

If someone breaks into my house with the intention of causing harm, until the police get there I'm not going to stand down. I have a metal bat next to my bed for self defense purposes for that very reason. Casey Jones style.
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Old 09-22-2016, 08:00 AM   #106
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I did a quick Google search on this particular case, and the people seeking leniency for the convicted are doing so because they were children and tried as adults. From what I could tell the rationale behind the law, whether you believe it is flawed or not, isn't what's up for debate. There is some neurological evidence to support the theory that teenagers are not physiologically adults, that their reason centers aren't fully developed yet, and to try them as fully functioning adults is unfair.

In addition to that a case could be made that the younger people were coerced by the older ones.

It's a weird case to be certain.
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Old 09-22-2016, 04:09 PM   #107
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Okay. Sorry. Just wasn't clear (for me) if you were saying he was wrong cuz "kids" or not.
Nope, he was totally in the right. And no worries. That was my fault for not clarifying.

Andrew, it may seem weird to you, but they weren't going to charge the homeowner because he was defending his home and was doing the right thing. The kids were in the wrong for breaking in and they really could have killed the guy if they'd wanted to.

Plas, as far as I'm concerned, I don't care if they were teenagers. They committed a crime and if the courts say they should be charged as adults because of the severity of said crime, then that's the way it works. The whole idea of, "Well, they're just kids so they weren't thinking clearly" is no excuse. They knew what they were doing when they made the choice to break into the guy's home and should therefore be held responsible.
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Old 09-22-2016, 04:20 PM   #108
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Andrew, it may seem weird to you, but they weren't going to charge the homeowner because he was defending his home and was doing the right thing. The kids were in the wrong for breaking in and they really could have killed the guy if they'd wanted to.
Huh? Where did I say the homeowner should be charged? Of course he shouldn't be charged.

I'm saying the surviving kid shouldn't be charged with murder because the homeowner killed the other kid. The homeowner had every right to blow the kid away, but that doesn't mean he HAD to, nor did Kid B have anything to do with any murder.
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Old 09-23-2016, 07:45 PM   #109
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Those tags.... Kill all men? Certainly not. But if one threatens me.... Well, I'm not taking that lying down. Just ask the LAST guy. Though I wonder if he actually remembers getting beat with the shovel handle. Drugs can mess up your brain until you dont even remember what you did, or so I hear.
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Old 09-24-2016, 07:05 AM   #110
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Huh? Where did I say the homeowner should be charged? Of course he shouldn't be charged.

I'm saying the surviving kid shouldn't be charged with murder because the homeowner killed the other kid. The homeowner had every right to blow the kid away, but that doesn't mean he HAD to, nor did Kid B have anything to do with any murder.
I know you didn't say that but you were questioning why they would charge the kids. It wasn't just one kid, it was all of them who were charged and that's because they felt the homeowner had the right to defend his home and the kids were in the wrong for going in there to break in. No, he didn't have to kill the kid, but he was in fear for his life because he didn't know what these kids were going to do, so he just acted out of instinct and I don't blame him for that.
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Old 09-24-2016, 09:17 PM   #111
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Huh? Where did I say the homeowner should be charged? Of course he shouldn't be charged.

I'm saying the surviving kid shouldn't be charged with murder because the homeowner killed the other kid. The homeowner had every right to blow the kid away, but that doesn't mean he HAD to, nor did Kid B have anything to do with any murder.
I agree. The surviving kid or kids shouldn't be charged with murder. According to the story NO murder even took place. Only a justifiable killing in self defense took place. I could see charging the kids with wrongful death, or like some type of negligence resulting in ones death but not murder! But the kid certainly had a great deal to do with that kids death!!
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Old 09-25-2016, 12:19 AM   #112
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Those tags.... Kill all men? Certainly not. But if one threatens me.... Well, I'm not taking that lying down. Just ask the LAST guy. Though I wonder if he actually remembers getting beat with the shovel handle. Drugs can mess up your brain until you dont even remember what you did, or so I hear.
um? what?

This is, kinda strange Duckie.
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Old 09-28-2016, 02:09 PM   #113
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Lol. It's kind of a long story. Short version is never try to rob a place where a certain short Irish-tempered lass has been working all night without a break whilst dealing with drunk idiots. Unless ya want to get clobbered, that is....
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Old 09-28-2016, 04:05 PM   #114
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Good for you, Duckie. They always say never to look afraid during something like that and to act tough so they know not to mess with you. I would have done the same thing if I had been in your shoes.
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Old 09-29-2016, 11:18 AM   #115
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Lol. It's kind of a long story. Short version is never try to rob a place where a certain short Irish-tempered lass has been working all night without a break whilst dealing with drunk idiots. Unless ya want to get clobbered, that is....
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You applied his teachings well, well done.
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:22 PM   #116
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Old 01-29-2019, 03:13 PM   #117
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Yeah, I couldn't care less about guns, but as long as you're taking it to a place where a particular gun is legally permitted to be that transport law is kinda stupid so long that the owner themselves isn't under some kind of court ordered restriction or what not.



But... I'm hardly surprised, given how stupid many knife laws are too. I mean at least the gun can be IN your car. In my state you can't conceal a knife over 3" and being in a car counts as being concealed. So, what... strap it to the roof? Does this include a new box of kitchen large knives that was just bought? Must they be removed from their box too, to ensure that they aren't concealed? So confused. I imagine if someone somehow secured a whole bunch kitchen knives over 3", esp large ones, to the roof of their car they're going to get pulled over...
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Old 01-29-2019, 04:37 PM   #118
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In my state you can't conceal a knife over 3"
The same way here in WA. Been like that as far as I can remember. Exceptions being, like, machetes and stuff like that.
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