Thundercats Roar-AKA Thunder Titans Go!

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by turtle1237

If you look at it that way. Than yes, but even the Titan Titans go in there episodes admitted most every one hates em in that one true fan episode.

Even The Simpsons has the occasional moment in their seasons where they admit they've been on way too long and aren't to their older fans' tastes anymore. It's called self-deprecation.

To see comic book cartoons take a serious tone from X-Men, Batman ete in the 90's, to being spoof in the 2010's and making money?

Exactly how many cartoons are doing that? Some have really stupid art styles, but DC largely stick to the direct-to-DVD movies for their mature storytelling

Batman went silly with Brave and the Bold also, way before TTG was even a thing. It was hated back in the day but eventually became highly regarded in it's own right once the fans got older and learned about silver age comics.

This is coming from a guy that loves him some SpaceGhost, but not coast to coast lol.

Coast to Coast arguably became the definitive take on the character. Any attempt at relaunching him as a "serious" hero failed after that.

And the original Teen Titans had the exact same humour as Go, only less gross, there's a lot of silly episodes in addition to the classy/edgier ones.

[Candy Kappa]

As Cure said, kids love it. But also, the show is chalk full of meta jokes, cameos and Easter eggs for older or more invested fans.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

As Cure said, kids love it. But also, the show is chalk full of meta jokes, cameos and Easter eggs for older or more invested fans.

Yeah, but Titans succeeds where Roar fails. Titans simplified the relationships and design and it was effective.

Roar plays as bad fan art. What could have been funny, falls flat. All the obvious jokes are the only jokes, and its cringe.

Do you like cringe?

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Even The Simpsons has the occasional moment in their seasons where they admit they've been on way too long and aren't to their older fans' tastes anymore. It's called self-deprecation.



Exactly how many cartoons are doing that? Some have really stupid art styles, but DC largely stick to the direct-to-DVD movies for their mature storytelling

Batman went silly with Brave and the Bold also, way before TTG was even a thing. It was hated back in the day but eventually became highly regarded in it's own right once the fans got older and learned about silver age comics.



Coast to Coast arguably became the definitive take on the character. Any attempt at relaunching him as a "serious" hero failed after that.

And the original Teen Titans had the exact same humour as Go, only less gross, there's a lot of silly episodes in addition to the classy/edgier ones.

But I never though the Brave and the Bold was Teen titans Go silly, it was really just a throw back to 1950's Batman and that era. The over the top plots of the villains', Hell in the 50's the Justice League and the villains' did have a baseball game in one of there comics, with the bad guys doing there best to cheat to win. I loved it they brought story ark back in the Brave and the Bold. I was like wow, I read that comic, There was no I want Pie, or fart Jokes, or Robin and Raven Shaking there butts, Even Batman in the Brave and the Bold was what Batman should be, a trouble man, standing up to injustice with a silver age twist. The show did not insult the older fans, it paid homage to my grandfather's day(He loved it when it aired and was still around) Talk smack about the Silver Age all you want, but if you want a modern comic book tv show that shows the Silver Age for what it was, than look no farther than the Brave and the Bold.

The Brave and the Bold were FAR from a Teen Titans Go thing. Hell you be lucky to get them to fight crime over pizza.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by turtle1237

... Even Batman in the Brave and the Bold was what Batman should be, a troubled man...

I’m not sure I read any Batman portrayal as obviously troubled. It’s always, he was a victim, but he was a kid, and now he’s fighting the bad people, to help the good that aren’t able to help themselves.

That could be interesting - if the Batman is just as troubled as the Joker was in Joker.

[Leo656]

Batman is indeed quite a disturbed individual much of the time. Moreso since the late-70s, and the Animated Series has him portrayed as a bit more jocular and laid back, but in the comics all the sh*t he's seen and been through has left him pretty banged-up, mentally.

That said, the B&B cartoon was able to present him as merely "driven" and still completely bang the nail and give a completely accurate portrayal. At a glance, I wanted to hate that show given the way it outwardly skewed younger and away from the terrific TAS version, but despite the 1950s aesthetic it does a great job at representing not just Batman, but the entire DCU in a faithful and even reverent manner. It's "for kids" without ever talking down to them, or aiming low, or being dumb for dumb's sake. It's a great show that ANY DC fan should be able to get into, and I'm really pleasantly surprised even now at how they managed to do that.

Teen Titans Go and this... thing, simply don't hit the same marks and are definitely aiming at a much lower bar. And I really, really hate when people dismiss anything with "It's for kids, so whatever," because all that does is give the people making these shows an excuse not to try hard. And why shouldn't they try hard? The original Thundercats was "for kids", too, and while it's not a flawless show by any means it's a million miles better than this thing.

It's like the news about the new "Dolittle" movie, where the studio insisted they put in a bunch of fart and poopie jokes during re-shoots, to "make it more for kids". That kind of attitude is SO infuriating on multiple levels. Not only does it assume that kids are stupid and only like stupid things - often true, but NOT always true - but by using that as an excuse to half-ass something, you exclude anyone who's not a booger-eating waterhead from ever enjoying your product, and why would you do that?

"It's for kids anyway, f*ck it" is a crap way of thinking about anything. There's never any excuse not to give your best effort every time.

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Batman is indeed quite a disturbed individual much of the time. Moreso since the late-70s, and the Animated Series has him portrayed as a bit more jocular and laid back, but in the comics all the sh*t he's seen and been through has left him pretty banged-up, mentally.

That said, the B&B cartoon was able to present him as merely "driven" and still completely bang the nail and give a completely accurate portrayal. At a glance, I wanted to hate that show given the way it outwardly skewed younger and away from the terrific TAS version, but despite the 1950s aesthetic it does a great job at representing not just Batman, but the entire DCU in a faithful and even reverent manner. It's "for kids" without ever talking down to them, or aiming low, or being dumb for dumb's sake. It's a great show that ANY DC fan should be able to get into, and I'm really pleasantly surprised even now at how they managed to do that.

Teen Titans Go and this... thing, simply don't hit the same marks and are definitely aiming at a much lower bar. And I really, really hate when people dismiss anything with "It's for kids, so whatever," because all that does is give the people making these shows an excuse not to try hard. And why shouldn't they try hard? The original Thundercats was "for kids", too, and while it's not a flawless show by any means it's a million miles better than this thing.

It's like the news about the new "Dolittle" movie, where the studio insisted they put in a bunch of fart and poopie jokes during re-shoots, to "make it more for kids". That kind of attitude is SO infuriating on multiple levels. Not only does it assume that kids are stupid and only like stupid things - often true, but NOT always true - but by using that as an excuse to half-ass something, you exclude anyone who's not a booger-eating waterhead from ever enjoying your product, and why would you do that?

"It's for kids anyway, f*ck it" is a crap way of thinking about anything. There's never any excuse not to give your best effort every time.

When I was growing up, many shows that were "Just" for kids were top notch "For it's day"

Batman the animated series, X-Men, Superman, Hell even in my younger baby years, I LOVED Inspector Gadget, even had a
T-Shirt, the shows had effort and hard work in em. And in the 2000's, shows like the Last Airbender( Not the movie) and Korra were amazing works. top These shows had top animated (Again for the Time) top stories and emotion.

If you just look at Teen Titan's Go animated wise vs Teen Titans, forget the fart jokes and gags in Go, you can see a LOT of effort was in making Teen Titans, and low quality were in Teen Titans Go.

I cant used shows like He-man because of reuse stock animated, but over all the animated of back than had a lot more effort, and am in horror that I not seeing it getting push to the next level. Hell even the 80's cartoons were better looking.

[TommyT]

I’ll take He-mans rotomation over anything CN debuted this year.

[Leo656]

I love Rotoscoping, I don't even care.

[turtle1237]

Its not the Rotoscoping of He-man which makes me not put it in the top of animation quality of the 80's, Its more that they used STOCK footage for scenes, walking, jumping and other stuff, I understand they did it to save money, but take other show like Inspector Gadget, ever moment was a new cell, every time Gadget used his gadgets, needed to be redrawn for that scene, no stock footage.

Transformers, didn't used stock footage, every time they transform, They had to animated it again and again, they could of done the cheap route and used the stock footage. I have no hate for 80's He-man, but if I had to compare it animation wise to its other 80's shows counterparts, it does need to take a hit for its reused of stock footage.

Rotoscoping on its own did push animation to its next level, but I think MOVIES like Fire and Ice and Heavy Metal made far more used of that tactic than He-man though. The 2 mention movies were really a treat for the eyes in regards to Rotoscoping at its best.

[Leo656]

I unashamedly don't care about the stock footage either. Never did.

[drgon78]

I don't mind stock footage if it is well animated.

I miss Rotoscoping.

[Leo656]

In thinking about it some more, I'm possibly influenced by upbringing and environment. At the same early age I was watching He-Man, I was also watching the old George Reeves Superman show, with a whopping total of two different flying shots over six seasons. Or the Ghostbusters Filmation cartoon which spent three minutes per episode on the long, drawn-out "Let's Go, Ghostbusters!" transformation scene. Stuff like that was prevalent in TV and films up until fairly recently, in the grand scheme of things.

It's not that I and others didn't notice. Of course we noticed. I just said, "Dad, why does that happen sometimes?" and he explained that stuff costs money, and if they save a little bit over here then they get to make more shows. I got a new He-Man episode every day for years and was happy with that, so the economics of the whole thing were perfectly fine with me. I didn't care if it was always the Exact Same Punch animation, it just looked cool.

The only thing that annoyed me about that show at the time was that more toy characters didn't show up (which was also explained to me why not, I just wasn't thrilled about it), and that a lot of episodes were spent on random characters who seemed a little bit too generic for the fiction.

Some of the episodes aren't very well-written but I feel like once you accept the style of its production the rest generally holds up. I get why some people simply can't get past that sort of stuff, but I also kinda feel it's a little unfair. Standards have changed for one thing, and for another, by the standards of its day it was by far the slickest animated series ever produced up to that point. The overall look, the music, and how "clean" the art style was were way ahead of anything that had been done before; since it was still the very early 80s, obviously later shows had much better production but it still deserves a lot of credit for how much it raised the bar when it was fresh. The "recycling" in some areas allowed them to put more resources into things like music and visual effects. So to me, it all evens out.

For me, everything about the show is why it's so iconic and memorable, and even fun. I mean, New Adventures of He-Man had literally none of the limitations of the original Filmation series, and it's definitely better than its own reputation, but who even remembers it? One could argue that they simply changed everything too much, to the point it had no resemblance to "He-Man" at all anymore, but while I'd agree with that (it's a big reason I didn't care for it at the time), I'd also say that it was just bland. For as much as people make jokes about the recycled animation and stock footage in the original show, it was memorable. There was nothing memorable at all about New Adventures, even though as its own thing it's actually not bad at all.

I'unno. To me, it's a case of a thing managing to be greater than the sum of its parts and limitations.

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by Leo656

In thinking about it some more, I'm possibly influenced by upbringing and environment. At the same early age I was watching He-Man, I was also watching the old George Reeves Superman show, with a whopping total of two different flying shots over six seasons. Or the Ghostbusters Filmation cartoon which spent three minutes per episode on the long, drawn-out "Let's Go, Ghostbusters!" transformation scene. Stuff like that was prevalent in TV and films up until fairly recently, in the grand scheme of things.

It's not that I and others didn't notice. Of course we noticed. I just said, "Dad, why does that happen sometimes?" and he explained that stuff costs money, and if they save a little bit over here then they get to make more shows. I got a new He-Man episode every day for years and was happy with that, so the economics of the whole thing were perfectly fine with me. I didn't care if it was always the Exact Same Punch animation, it just looked cool.

The only thing that annoyed me about that show at the time was that more toy characters didn't show up (which was also explained to me why not, I just wasn't thrilled about it), and that a lot of episodes were spent on random characters who seemed a little bit too generic for the fiction.

Some of the episodes aren't very well-written but I feel like once you accept the style of its production the rest generally holds up. I get why some people simply can't get past that sort of stuff, but I also kinda feel it's a little unfair. Standards have changed for one thing, and for another, by the standards of its day it was by far the slickest animated series ever produced up to that point. The overall look, the music, and how "clean" the art style was were way ahead of anything that had been done before; since it was still the very early 80s, obviously later shows had much better production but it still deserves a lot of credit for how much it raised the bar when it was fresh. The "recycling" in some areas allowed them to put more resources into things like music and visual effects. So to me, it all evens out.

For me, everything about the show is why it's so iconic and memorable, and even fun. I mean, New Adventures of He-Man had literally none of the limitations of the original Filmation series, and it's definitely better than its own reputation, but who even remembers it? One could argue that they simply changed everything too much, to the point it had no resemblance to "He-Man" at all anymore, but while I'd agree with that (it's a big reason I didn't care for it at the time), I'd also say that it was just bland. For as much as people make jokes about the recycled animation and stock footage in the original show, it was memorable. There was nothing memorable at all about New Adventures, even though as its own thing it's actually not bad at all.

I'unno. To me, it's a case of a thing managing to be greater than the sum of its parts and limitations.

I have nothing against them saving money, I am just saying that comparing He-man vs other top 80's cartoons of the era animation wise, He-man should take a hit in stock footage vs C.O.P.S or Thundarr.

[Leo656]

You might be ahead on principle but then fall a step behind on points, simply because "nobody" remembers those shows until someone brings them up. They can be technically superior to many shows of that decade, but they were just a blip on the radar in the grand scheme of things compared to shows like Thundercats or He-Man. For all their limitations, those shows are iconic and memorable in a way that a lot of "better" and better-produced shows from that decade simply won't ever be.

I don't exclusively grade on technical achievement, personally. It's data, it's a factor, but it shouldn't be the only factor. Things don't work that way. For all their shortcomings, there are a lot of reasons why shows like MOTU, Thundercats, TMNT and Transformers are at or near the top of the list whenever people talk about "classic" shows from that era, and those reasons have nothing to do with animation quality or production values. Meanwhile, a lot of slicker shows with much better production are way down the list of the collective consciousness, and it's not at all because they were bad. Maybe it's not fair, but It Is What It Is. People will still be talking about He-Man and Thundercats when most other 80s shows are a long-forgotten memory. So in the end... does it really matter which shows had the better production values or the higher budget or the slicker animation? I'm not so sure, myself. Maybe it's the carny 'rassler in me, but I think at the end of the day, if you can entertain your audience with a Less Is More philosophy, and everyone still goes home happy, then everybody wins and nobody loses. You've entertained people, regardless. If you've given them something they fondly remember, then you've done your job well, period.

When people in the Here And Now discuss older cartoons, I find a lot of "Show X was Bad because it was cheap, and Show Y was Great because it was much more slick and polished", and that's an oversimplification. OR - and I'm not saying anyone here is saying it, but it has been said a lot in the past - there's sometimes an implication that some of us simply didn't notice the limitations of some of those shows back then, and are therefore somehow "thick" or something for enjoying them sincerely, when we absolutely did and we absolutely weren't. Rather, "That's the way it was, and we liked it!"

But that's why I always feel compelled to point out that, as someone who was there, we weren't grading our shows based on how many recycled frames of stock footage they used or didn't use. At least, nobody *I* knew was. I never experienced any of those kinds of conversations until like 2001, and I didn't much care for them then, either.

I'm generally pretty forgiving of stuff from any era and can judge it by its contemporary standard. The only show I have a hard time getting into nowadays is Transformers. I missed most of it when it was fresh and I really want to like it, but the original show just doesn't grab me, and I think it's because it's just kinda dumb. Not "bad", just... I don't know, it doesn't hold my attention for some reason even though I like the concept. Very few 80s cartoons are boring or tedious, for me, but I can't seem to really get into that one.

[ZariusTwo]

Thundercats Roar starts it's tv run on Saturday February 22nd, 10:30 AM with "Exodus Parts One and Two", followed up the week after by "The Legend of Boggy Ben" and "Prank Call" on February 29th.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/02...month-preview/

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Thundercats Roar starts it's tv run on Saturday February 22nd, 10:30 AM with "Exodus Parts One and Two", followed up the week after by "The Legend of Boggy Ben" and "Prank Call" on February 29th.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/02...month-preview/

It’s dead already.

[IndigoErth]

Checked out the first two online. Um.

Though I watched some of the original as a kid, all I can say is that I'm glad I don't have any real attachment to this series. Because as a diehard Turtles fan in the age of 'Rise,' diehard Thundercats fans have my sympathy and understanding. But at the very least I suppose we're fortunate that 'Rise' did not go with this kind of design, similar to that one set of summer shorts that were done...

Is there a trend in reboots (at least this sort of reboot) with dumbing down the leader character...? (Including 'Rise' Leo since Leo is otherwise the leader boy in the franchise.) I mean, damn, what did they do to Lion-o.

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Checked out the first two online. Um.

Though I watched some of the original as a kid, all I can say is that I'm glad I don't have any real attachment to this series. Because as a diehard Turtles fan in the age of 'Rise,' diehard Thundercats fans have my sympathy and understanding. But at the very least I suppose we're fortunate that 'Rise' did not go with this kind of design, similar to that one set of summer shorts that were done...

Is there a trend in reboots (at least this sort of reboot) with dumbing down the leader character...? (Including 'Rise' Leo since Leo is otherwise the leader boy in the franchise.) I mean, damn, what did they do to Lion-o.

I am a fan of many Cartoons, Thundarr, Speed Racer, Ninja Turtles, the 80's, 2003, and even the 2012 series, Even 80's He-man. And I love both the 80's Thundercats and the remake in 2010? I think it was? A shame it lasted 1 mere season though.

Lets say that Thundercats Roar does hurt me, a LOT. Just like Teen Titans Go does.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Checked out the first two online. Um.

Though I watched some of the original as a kid, all I can say is that I'm glad I don't have any real attachment to this series. Because as a diehard Turtles fan in the age of 'Rise,' diehard Thundercats fans have my sympathy and understanding. But at the very least I suppose we're fortunate that 'Rise' did not go with this kind of design, similar to that one set of summer shorts that were done...

Is there a trend in reboots (at least this sort of reboot) with dumbing down the leader character...? (Including 'Rise' Leo since Leo is otherwise the leader boy in the franchise.) I mean, damn, what did they do to Lion-o.

This is where the anger towards SJW characters comes from. Now you get it.