Terror Incident In London

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

I agree with FW Leo here on the subject of terrorism. These radical Islamists aren't even using the Koran as their source for these things. They are using their own ideology to brainwash others into thinking like they do and all who don't think their way should be killed. You can blame all Muslims all you want to, mrmaczaps, but the fact remains that a majority of Muslims are against what these terrorists are doing and want to fight back against them just as the rest of us do.

Whats worse is that many of these radicals follow the orders of their preachers without question. If their preacher opens up a passage commanding unbelievers to be executed, they won't even look at the very previous sentence commanding that this only applies to murderers and war criminals. Even if they did know, they would claim that their preacher's interpretation is infallible and anyone who disagrees must be killed.

I never understood the stance of many Republicans stance against Islam and Muslims in general. As someone with Republican views myself, I always thought the more conservative and traditional minded party would naturally ally itself with a religion which shares many of its values and work together to defeat terrorism, as opposed to liberals (who differ with Muslims on many issues) defending the religion and the people after every attack.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Whats worse is that many of these radicals follow the orders of their preachers without question. If their preacher opens up a passage commanding unbelievers to be executed, they won't even look at the very previous sentence commanding that this only applies to murderers and war criminals. Even if they did know, they would claim that their preacher's interpretation is infallible and anyone who disagrees must be killed.

Not all muslims want to kill non-believers. Some just want to watch.

[BubblyShell22]

Not true. Many want to fight back against these people and the only ones who don't are those who are afraid of retaliation and are part of the terrorist group themselves. Others who aren't part of the group don't just want to sit and watch. Remember: Terrorists can be anybody and they don't necessarily have to be Muslim. You just want to single out everybody because it makes you feel good. I used to feel the same way because I was frustrated with the attacks, but I changed my stance on it as I saw a lot of the Muslim communities rallying together and condemning any terrorist attack that happened. You should watch TV more and really see how things can change your perspective.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

Not all muslims want to kill non-believers. Some just want to watch.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

I never understood the stance of many Republicans stance against Islam and Muslims in general. As someone with Republican views myself, I always thought the more conservative and traditional minded party would naturally ally itself with a religion which shares many of its values and work together to defeat terrorism, as opposed to liberals (who differ with Muslims on many issues) defending the religion and the people after every attack.

The step you're missing here is that the Religious Right in both camps has no interest in being tolerant, or joining forces because of mutually agreed upon core values.

They're in the business of shilling supremacy, and you can't share being The One True Way with someone who isn't one of your own.
Then there's the fact that the American Religious Right doesn't like brown people, and the fact that the Middle Eastern Religious Right doesn't like the West....and it just sort of unfolds from there.

Also the idea that liberals, by definition, differ with Islam on many issues.
There are liberal Muslims, just like there are liberal...Baptists and Catholics and Jews. And we agree on a great number of things.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

The step you're missing here is that the Religious Right in both camps has no interest in being tolerant, or joining forces because of mutually agreed upon core values.

They're in the business of shilling supremacy, and you can't share being The One True Way with someone who isn't one of your own.
Then there's the fact that the American Religious Right doesn't like brown people, and the fact that the Middle Eastern Religious Right doesn't like the West....and it just sort of unfolds from there.

This. From my secular point of view, it's always weird when Christians (or whoever) want to tread on the rights of another religion. To me, any violation of religious freedom is bad news for all of them. But like you said: supremacy.

There are people that seriously think The First only protects Judeo-Christian worship. Not that they've actually read The Constitution, but it helps the narrative.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

This. From my secular point of view, it's always weird when Christians (or whoever) want to tread on the rights of another religion. To me, any violation of religious freedom is bad news for all of them. But like you said: supremacy.

There are people that seriously think The First only protects Judeo-Christian worship. Not that they've actually read The Constitution, but it helps the narrative.

How soon people forget that prayer was removed from schools, not because of a liberal atheist agenda, but because there were always fights over which Christian prayer to use.

Christianists in the US are all gung ho about forbidding Sharia with one hand, while signing into law their own version of the very same thing with the other.

I would be curious to know how many Christianists are responsible for the terror attacks we have in the US, except...theirs never seem to get reported as terror attacks, and for some reason their religion never gets mentioned.

The white supremacist who attacked people in New York recently?
What's his religion? Why isn't he labelled as a terrorist? He specifically went around hunting black people.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

True, there are alot of liberal Muslims nowdays, I heard the vast majority of Muslims voted for Hillary Clinton in the recent election (9 out of 10) and that more than 80% voted for Obama in the past two elections, however before that time, they were a natural republician ally.

80% voted for George Bush in the 2000 election and its been similar before that. If you lived in the Muslim community before 9/11, you were naturally expected to vote republician. Makes sense since like republicians, Muslims shared many of the same values such as on taxes (many Muslims were business owners), same sex marriage, abortion, individual responsibility over governmental influence etc.

[Powder]

I love how we have a no politics/religion rule that everyone follows without question!

[Mayhem]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

This. From my secular point of view, it's always weird when Christians (or whoever) want to tread on the rights of another religion. To me, any violation of religious freedom is bad news for all of them. But like you said: supremacy.

You do realise that's why the Founding Fathers left England/Europe and came to the US in the first place? It wasn't to escape religious persecution, it was because English laws FORBADE religious persecution at the time. They went to the US to set up their own new colony and then impose their religion on everyone who they came across, punishing anyone who did not believe.

[ToTheNines]

That's total bullsh*t dude. Unless you're referring to the Pilgrims/settlers, then yes I know it's a popular myth that weren't zealots. One of the many lies they tell you in school.

But fast forward over 100 years later to the actual Founders... ya know, Jefferson and the gang? They did not play that sh*t. Many of them weren't even believers, necessarily.

[Mayhem]

Yes, sorry, meant the Pilgrims, the founding "fathers" of the colony in the US when the Mayflower et al left in 1620.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet while the revenge porn one has. This thread started out as condolences and then went into talking about republicians, liberals, Islam, Christianity, the first amendment and the founding fathers etc. (I admit I'm guilty of advancing the discussion in that direction).

[BubblyShell22]

It probably will be closed in time so just brace yourself for it.