2018: Are you glad that Nickelodeon bought the TMNT 9 years ago?

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Worse than Rise and Platinum Dunes movies?

Seriously? How could it get worse? How are we not already in the Worst Case Scenario?

If worse TMNT related stuff than the Platinum Dunes is yet to come then I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

We didn't know how good we had it back when the worst TMNT related stuff was the 3rd Turtles movie and The Next Mutation.

[Leo656]

Because a lot of people really like those movies. AND, the people making them have repeatedly expressed that they were thrilled with the product they released and simply can't fathom why they weren't more well-received. "We did everything right!" They've more or less said that, not word-for-word but almost. If anything, future films will have much, much MORE pizza and "Cowabunga", because that's what these idiots think is the missing ingredient.

I try not to talk about "Rise" too much because a lot of people like it and simply can't let people have a different opinion. Like, they get REALLY mad about it. So I've tried to be better in selecting my battles, because aside from the first episode I've been completely avoiding the show anyway, as it is truly, TRULY not for me, so although I don't believe a person needs a "reason" to share an opinion, I'm well aware that there's no real need for me to restate what's already been stated, since it's just going to lead to arguing and whatever anyway. But I agree, as far as TMNT cartoons go, it would be hard to even imagine sinking any lower. That said, it's only a matter of time.

"Our primary target audience is 6-10 year olds." When a company says that, the sh*t has thoroughly hit the fan and there's no going back. You've told everyone that your main concern is in pleasing "people" with the absolute lowest standards and worst possible taste imaginable. When that's your bar, you're not gonna waste any time aiming higher than the f*cking ground.

Don't get me wrong, these are Dark Times, but it's statistically impossible for TMNT to ever reach the heights of the 1988-1991 period, so really, there's nowhere to even GO but down, no matter what they do. And that's assuming they actually care about making "quality" product, instead of just product, which they openly don't care about at all. Things may well once again get better than they are right now, but trust me: There are still a LOT of ways for them to screw TMNT up. They're not even done counting them yet.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Because a lot of people really like those movies. AND, the people making them have repeatedly expressed that they were thrilled with the product they released and simply can't fathom why they weren't more well-received. "We did everything right!" They've more or less said that, not word-for-word but almost. If anything, future films will have much, much MORE pizza and "Cowabunga", because that's what these idiots think is the missing ingredient.

I try not to talk about "Rise" too much because a lot of people like it and simply can't let people have a different opinion. Like, they get REALLY mad about it. So I've tried to be better in selecting my battles, because aside from the first episode I've been completely avoiding the show anyway, as it is truly, TRULY not for me, so although I don't believe a person needs a "reason" to share an opinion, I'm well aware that there's no real need for me to restate what's already been stated, since it's just going to lead to arguing and whatever anyway. But I agree, as far as TMNT cartoons go, it would be hard to even imagine sinking any lower. That said, it's only a matter of time.

"Our primary target audience is 6-10 year olds." When a company says that, the sh*t has thoroughly hit the fan and there's no going back. You've told everyone that your main concern is in pleasing "people" with the absolute lowest standards and worst possible taste imaginable. When that's your bar, you're not gonna waste any time aiming higher than the f*cking ground.

Don't get me wrong, these are Dark Times, but it's statistically impossible for TMNT to ever reach the heights of the 1988-1991 period, so really, there's nowhere to even GO but down, no matter what they do. And that's assuming they actually care about making "quality" product, instead of just product, which they openly don't care about at all. Things may well once again get better than they are right now, but trust me: There are still a LOT of ways for them to screw TMNT up. They're not even done counting them yet.

At least you have the IDW comics. They treat TMNT with a great amount of respect. and have something that older fans will enjoy.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Because a lot of people really like those movies. AND, the people making them have repeatedly expressed that they were thrilled with the product they released and simply can't fathom why they weren't more well-received. "We did everything right!" They've more or less said that, not word-for-word but almost. If anything, future films will have much, much MORE pizza and "Cowabunga", because that's what these idiots think is the missing ingredient.

I try not to talk about "Rise" too much because a lot of people like it and simply can't let people have a different opinion. Like, they get REALLY mad about it. So I've tried to be better in selecting my battles, because aside from the first episode I've been completely avoiding the show anyway, as it is truly, TRULY not for me, so although I don't believe a person needs a "reason" to share an opinion, I'm well aware that there's no real need for me to restate what's already been stated, since it's just going to lead to arguing and whatever anyway. But I agree, as far as TMNT cartoons go, it would be hard to even imagine sinking any lower. That said, it's only a matter of time.

"Our primary target audience is 6-10 year olds." When a company says that, the sh*t has thoroughly hit the fan and there's no going back. You've told everyone that your main concern is in pleasing "people" with the absolute lowest standards and worst possible taste imaginable. When that's your bar, you're not gonna waste any time aiming higher than the f*cking ground.

Don't get me wrong, these are Dark Times, but it's statistically impossible for TMNT to ever reach the heights of the 1988-1991 period, so really, there's nowhere to even GO but down, no matter what they do. And that's assuming they actually care about making "quality" product, instead of just product, which they openly don't care about at all. Things may well once again get better than they are right now, but trust me: There are still a LOT of ways for them to screw TMNT up. They're not even done counting them yet.

Yeah, but how does it get worse than soulless Fred Wolf cowabunga cash-in movies where the humans are the main characters, and TeenTitansGo cartoons for autistic six-year-olds with a Tazmanian Devil April? What worse can happen?

[Leo656]

People go on about the IDW comics, but the few I've read really didn't blow my mind.

They were fine, but... I'unno. Lots of little things I didn't care for, that when added up... eh. They're "fine", but that's all. Plus I'm certainly not going to jump back in NOW, like 100 issues and 80 spin-offs and mini-series later.

Also, nobody reads comic books, and I'd like to see the "mainstream" TMNT be treated with some semblance of care, instead of an eternal joke. People act like the fact that the comics are a shade more "grown up" than the rest of the swill the brand produces is something to celebrate. Really, it's "Here's your bone, now go quietly chew on it in the corner while the rest of us revel in how absurd and ridiculous this nonsense really is."

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there's SOMEthing out there based on TMNT that's not 100% aimed at booger-eaters, but it's really more of a backhanded appeasement type of thing than a true gesture of goodwill and caring about that section of the audience. Just a thing they can point to and say, "look, we gave you SOMEthing."

Good start. Not enough. And also, a *tad* overrated in my admittedly-limited opinion.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Yeah, but how does it get worse than soulless Fred Wolf cowabunga cash-in movies where the humans are the main characters, and TeenTitansGo cartoons for autistic six-year-olds with a Tazmanian Devil April? What worse can happen?

Thaaaaaat's right, you're still kinda new-ish to comic books and such and haven't suffered through 8 million reboots of things you used to care about.

Look, they've already started "tweaking" the origin with each subsequent reboot. They've already started having conversations about what the "necessary" parts of TMNT lore are, and what's expendable. They've decided "pizza" and "bad jokes" must stay, and also, they probably have to be Turtles, but everything else is on the table for "negotiation". Thus, that means everything is expendable and unnecessary, if it gets in the way of whatever will sell the most toys at a given moment in time.

We have Black "Tasmanian Devil" April, "just because". Next, they'll have been humans-into-turtles, rather than humanoid turtles, "just because". One day, Splinter and Shredder will be the same character, and Casey Jones will have raised and trained the Turtles, "just because."

When you've established that "Nothing Matters", then indeed, nothing matters. Which means that every single bad idea anyone's EVER had for TMNT, in the history of ever, can now get a budget, a release date, and a toy. Because unlike 20 years ago, there's nobody there to say, "Well, that's not a good fit for TMNT because _____."

Mark my words: It can, and will, get worse. And people will cheer, because "At least they're still making toys, so I can buy them for MY kid now and subliminally indoctrinate them into liking 'my' things, because that's not creepy or manipulative at all." Don't get me wrong, I HATE the BayTurtles flicks, but only partly for what they are. It's partly because, the door is open now for them to do even worse next time, because too many people don't know WHY those movies were bad, and don't care. That says it all.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Leo656

People go on about the IDW comics, but the few I've read really didn't blow my mind.

They were fine, but... I'unno. Lots of little things I didn't care for, that when added up... eh. They're "fine", but that's all. Plus I'm certainly not going to jump back in NOW, like 100 issues and 80 spin-offs and mini-series later.

Also, nobody reads comic books, and I'd like to see the "mainstream" TMNT be treated with some semblance of care, instead of an eternal joke. People act like the fact that the comics are a shade more "grown up" than the rest of the swill the brand produces is something to celebrate. Really, it's "Here's your bone, now go quietly chew on it in the corner while the rest of us revel in how absurd and ridiculous this nonsense really is."

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there's SOMEthing out there based on TMNT that's not 100% aimed at booger-eaters, but it's really more of a backhanded appeasement type of thing than a true gesture of goodwill and caring about that section of the audience. Just a thing they can point to and say, "look, we gave you SOMEthing."

Good start. Not enough. And also, a *tad* overrated in my admittedly-limited opinion.




Thaaaaaat's right, you're still kinda new-ish to comic books and such and haven't suffered through 8 million reboots of things you used to care about.

Look, they've already started "tweaking" the origin with each subsequent reboot. They've already started having conversations about what the "necessary" parts of TMNT lore are, and what's expendable. They've decided "pizza" and "bad jokes" must stay, and also, they probably have to be Turtles, but everything else is on the table for "negotiation". Thus, that means everything is expendable and unnecessary, if it gets in the way of whatever will sell the most toys at a given moment in time.

We have Black "Tasmanian Devil" April, "just because". Next, they'll have been humans-into-turtles, rather than humanoid turtles, "just because". One day, Splinter and Shredder will be the same character, and Casey Jones will have raised and trained the Turtles, "just because."

When you've established that "Nothing Matters", then indeed, nothing matters. Which means that every single bad idea anyone's EVER had for TMNT, in the history of ever, can now get a budget, a release date, and a toy. Because unlike 20 years ago, there's nobody there to say, "Well, that's not a good fit for TMNT because _____."

Mark my words: It can, and will, get worse. And people will cheer, because "At least they're still making toys, so I can buy them for MY kid now and subliminally indoctrinate them into liking 'my' things, because that's not creepy or manipulative at all." Don't get me wrong, I HATE the BayTurtles flicks, but only partly for what they are. It's partly because, the door is open now for them to do even worse next time, because too many people don't know WHY those movies were bad, and don't care. That says it all.

It's like the property is becoming a glorified fanfiction section, eh?

[Leo656]

There does seem to be a smidge of, "I never liked this about TMNT, I'm gonna 'fix' it" in each new version recently. That's a little bit Geoff Johns-esque, all by itself.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by Leo656

There does seem to be a smidge of, "I never liked this about TMNT, I'm gonna 'fix' it" in each new version recently. That's a little bit Geoff Johns-esque, all by itself.

As with most properties these days there seems to be a need to destroy our culture and replace it with a more dumbed down perversion. My hopes are that they'll tap into what made it great when all else has been exhausted.

On a side note, I shudder to think what the new series of movies will be like.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Originally Posted by Leo656

People go on about the IDW comics, but the few I've read really didn't blow my mind.

They were fine, but... I'unno. Lots of little things I didn't care for, that when added up... eh. They're "fine", but that's all.

I'm kinda with you on that. IDW gets overhyped to all hell around here. But, in my experience it's alright, but not mind-blowing like they say. Still I like it better than having no new Turtle comics at all (even though 9 times out of ten I'll opt for the Mirage reprint right next to it instead).

I guess I just live in my little "nerd-bubble" where people do read comics (I'm not as into movies or TV anymore), so I don't care as much what the movies or shows are like anymore.

Though, if the future of non-comic TMNT media is more and more crap, I guess we can always take the "enjoy the train-wreck" approach. I like Star Trek too, but Star Trek 5 is still my favorite because of how deliciously bad it is.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

On a side note, I shudder to think what the new series of movies will be like.

Fear the worst.

[The Great Saiyaman]

The only thing I did NOT like about Nickelodeon buying TMNT is that they let Micheal Bay get too close for comfort to it.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by Leo656

People go on about the IDW comics, but the few I've read really didn't blow my mind.

They were fine, but... I'unno. Lots of little things I didn't care for, that when added up... eh. They're "fine", but that's all. Plus I'm certainly not going to jump back in NOW, like 100 issues and 80 spin-offs and mini-series later.

Also, nobody reads comic books, and I'd like to see the "mainstream" TMNT be treated with some semblance of care, instead of an eternal joke. People act like the fact that the comics are a shade more "grown up" than the rest of the swill the brand produces is something to celebrate. Really, it's "Here's your bone, now go quietly chew on it in the corner while the rest of us revel in how absurd and ridiculous this nonsense really is."

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there's SOMEthing out there based on TMNT that's not 100% aimed at booger-eaters, but it's really more of a backhanded appeasement type of thing than a true gesture of goodwill and caring about that section of the audience. Just a thing they can point to and say, "look, we gave you SOMEthing."

Good start. Not enough. And also, a *tad* overrated in my admittedly-limited opinion.




Thaaaaaat's right, you're still kinda new-ish to comic books and such and haven't suffered through 8 million reboots of things you used to care about.

Look, they've already started "tweaking" the origin with each subsequent reboot. They've already started having conversations about what the "necessary" parts of TMNT lore are, and what's expendable. They've decided "pizza" and "bad jokes" must stay, and also, they probably have to be Turtles, but everything else is on the table for "negotiation". Thus, that means everything is expendable and unnecessary, if it gets in the way of whatever will sell the most toys at a given moment in time.

We have Black "Tasmanian Devil" April, "just because". Next, they'll have been humans-into-turtles, rather than humanoid turtles, "just because". One day, Splinter and Shredder will be the same character, and Casey Jones will have raised and trained the Turtles, "just because."

When you've established that "Nothing Matters", then indeed, nothing matters. Which means that every single bad idea anyone's EVER had for TMNT, in the history of ever, can now get a budget, a release date, and a toy. Because unlike 20 years ago, there's nobody there to say, "Well, that's not a good fit for TMNT because _____."

Mark my words: It can, and will, get worse. And people will cheer, because "At least they're still making toys, so I can buy them for MY kid now and subliminally indoctrinate them into liking 'my' things, because that's not creepy or manipulative at all." Don't get me wrong, I HATE the BayTurtles flicks, but only partly for what they are. It's partly because, the door is open now for them to do even worse next time, because too many people don't know WHY those movies were bad, and don't care. That says it all.

Caaaareful Leo656, criticize the franchise too much with excellent points or rail against the holy kid demographic and the eternal need for sustaining toys and your responses might get *chirping crickets.*

That's the response I often get now, I could post spam or pictures of Cubed jamming his fingers repeatedly into a Bay Turtle's quivering nostrils and I would probably get nothing. Unless people have me on ignore or something (does the site even tell you if they do?) then it's like I get barely a response. Even Shredderorokusaki gets more attention then I do.

For your 'Nothing Matters' bit, well there are one or two people on here that had directly stated outright that the adult fandom doesn't matter, only the kids do. It's their opinion of course, but good God.

I am starting to personally wish that Dark Horse was given a chance to run a TMNT series. Hell, I wish Marvel had been able to buy it, considering the director it has now. Maybe we wouldn't have a TV series almost every year, but we'd have some high budget movies. However as long as Nick has it in their grip, expect schlock and nothing for adults, because toys.

[Leo656]

Yeah. Yeah. Whatyagonnado, though?

Can't nothin' be done until they start actually losing money by the barrel, and this fanbase will buy anything, so... I'unno.

One day, in the far future, the TMNT film series will be used in film schools as an example of how it looks to get something right exactly ONCE, and then spend the rest of eternity not even bothering to try. Real shame. That and the old games are about all I bother with, anymore. It is what it is.

[Filespit]

I honestly haven't thought too much about Nick buying the franchise. It happened and I was pretty cool with it when the news struck. Looking back over these 9 (almost 10 now) years, and certaintly after having read through this topic, I'd say they've done a decent job.

Since buying TMNT, they've given us 4 new adaptations (not all by themselves), which is impressive in itself since it keeps the Turtles somewhat relevant, but all with varying quality.

The 2012 series was cool. It wasn't amazing but certainly not terrible either. I stopped watching somewhere around season 4, but watched every episode up until then. I should catch up on it and see it through. I thought it was very respectful of the older material, both the Mirage comics and the original cartoon, and they mixed it up with new things. There were some weird decisions along the way, I though it got a bit out of place sometimes and the design and animations of some characters felt a bit off, but overall I liked the show.

The PD movies are crap, I've never said anything good about them and never will. The first thing I did after having seen the first movie at the theater was to put on the original movie as soon as I got home. Those movies are filled with bad decision-making and lacks any sort of love or respect for the franchise.

The IDW comics are great, I'm loving them. I've never been a frequent comic book reader, so I can't possibly compare it to the Mirage comics for example, but I feel this is probably the best adaptation of the Turtles so far. They're mixing all the good things from the other adaptations with new and cool stuff, making it feel fresh and exciting. I'm not saying it's the best thing ever, but no one should look past it. It's good.

Then we have Rise, which I've seen 1 episode of and couldn't care less about. Like the PD movies there's a lot of bad decision-making here that I don't agree with. I'm sure it's gonna find its fanbase like everything else, but I'm not gonna bit a part of it.

Apart from this we've got a couple of new video games, a LOT of new super cool collectibles, merchandise and re-releases of old comic books and tv shows. That's pretty ok with me, even if perhaps Nick shouldn't be credited for all or any of that.

So I'd say they've done a pretty decent job. There's been some weird, and certainly bad, decisions along the way, but it hasn't been all that terrible. It could've been far worse, but also a lot better.

[Anarchistguy]

Not at all...

Thanks to that I since then moved onto other things

[AquaParade]

At this point in time, I'm sort of indifferent to the fact.

I appreciate Nick's efforts on TMNT 2012 and the IDW series. Those were both made with love and respect, despite having to be a bit sanitized for a wide-audience. I really enjoyed TMNT 2012, when it was fresh and felt like it had a strong direction. The IDW books are great, if only for the constant stream of comicbook covers they produce. I always love seeing new pieces by Kevin Eastman and upcoming artists.

Enough has been said about Platinum Dunes. Utter failures, and more than that, they are wasted potential. The timing was right, the technology was there, and they blew it.

But like I said, I've more or less made peace with the fact that I may never see anything new that I truly love from the TMNT. Aside from Nostalgia grabs, like the NECA figures, which I'm glad to have. Keep the past coming.

My expectations are comfortably low, and I'll be there, pleasantly surprised if Nickelodeon does do anything new and spectacular with the TMNT.
If not, I'll always have love for the boys for the captivating stories and great times they've given me.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

But like I said, I've more or less made peace with the fact that I may never see anything new that I truly love from the TMNT.

Yep.

I mean, knowing me, who was kind of always annoyed by things "Made For Kids" even when I WAS a kid, I can't see anything ever getting me excited for the franchise again. I'd have to alter my tastes completely to be able to swallow and enjoy the things they're producing, and are likely to produce in the future, and I'm not about that.

Some people love coconut. I hate it, you can't make me like it, and if it's "This or nothing", I'll just as well not eat, thanks.

Now, watch them one day pull a "Halloween" and one day do a direct sequel to the 1990 film, using guys in suits instead of that horrible CGI vomit. Never happen, but boy, would I feel stupid. And grateful, obviously. But yeah, that's about what it would take to get me back, and that's (probably) not happening.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I do wonder if Image, Dark Horse, or any comic book company that isn't DC or Marvel would have been a better option than Viacom.

[Leo656]

Tough call.

I know everyone wants TMNT to be a Marvel property because of the Daredevil connection and "mutants", but they already have a billion mutants so I feel like the TMNT in the Marvel universe would have absolutely nothing to do, or make them special.

I kind of feel like they'd fit in like 1% better in DC, because they've generally been better about creating a world that's more PG-13 and R rated and they don't shy away from violence, BUT, it would have to be under one of their sub-imprints that's not connected to the main DCU. Again, the main universe is too crowded for them, but I do feel that of the two "big" companies, DC would be more apt to lean away from the cartoon trappings of the brand. I have a feeling Marvel would rather lean into those things because "That's what everyone knows."

I feel like neither company could resist the temptation to fold the TMNT into the main universe at some point, even if that shouldn't happen. If they could avoid doing that, though, I think DC would be a little bit closer to Mirage-ish in tone, while Marvel would probably be pretty similar to what IDW is doing.

Dark Horse probably would've been the best bet, all things considered, but eh, that's not what happened. Fun to think about sometimes, though, I guess.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Dark Horse probably would've been the best bet, all things considered, but eh, that's not what happened. Fun to think about sometimes, though, I guess.

Back to Image Comics. They do Saga and Walking Dead, and hordes of other adult titles.

But that'd NEVER happen.