Do you think Raph is getting enough character/central focus?

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

I notice nobody has mentioned that it was RAPH who was basically in charge and helping Leo the most all through the Northhampton arc this season. He was the one leading the training, he was the one with Leo before AND after he woke up- basically his entire recovery was aided and prodded along by Raph- and he was the one acting as interim leader for everything else. He's had PLENTY of focus this season, even if he wasn't the star of every other episode. He's sort of taken the spot of Leo's second, and I kind of like that.

Very true. It was also mentioned how he kept a vigilant watch over Leo while he was out, which is why his being caught by the Creeper didn't bother me much. I was under the impression that he lacked any proper rest so he's allowed to have an off day. After Leo awoke, he was the one trying to help him recover which seemed to be nearly instantly done...like he went right into it. Raph seemed to be back on his game after Leo was up and about after this ep. I didn't care for the turning into a plant thing, but it was a toned down adaptation of the bloodsucker story from Mirage and Raph was the victim for that originally.

[Rooish]

Not seeing through the eyes of a Raph fan, I don't really get the problem. I feel like Donny has a disproportionate focus but Raph isn't shafted compared to Leo and Mikey. I mean in the very first episode he was established as the best fighter, and in almost every episode he gets his own particularly kick a$$ action moment in a fight. As mentioned, he is the straight man in this series, which is weird because I thought he was supposed to be the passionate, irrational one, but it makes him seem to be the almost-leader and the most stable character in a way.

The lack of focus is fine by me, since he has been the main, if not one of the main, characters in so many of the other incarnations. And when he is the focus, it's like the writers had such a hard on for him that they can't even remember the other turtles. Let's look at the main characters of each series.

1) Mirage - he carried a lot of the emotional weight in Return to New York. In City at War, Leo was the main Turtle, but Raph had a lot of emphasis as the guy arguing and going off on his own. I think he was either the main Turtle or the second most important in Mirage, depending.
2) Image - I think that Raph had the most development and focus in this, as well, and the coolest arc.
3) Archie - It was almost embarrassing how much of the main character Raph was. Don too but more Raph. Was Mikey even in this series? Do Raph fans realize how shafted Don and Mike usually are? I mean in the Nick cartoon Mikey fans have to deal with Mikey's complete and utter idiocy, worse than ever before. Anyway back to Archie. Raph had a girlfriend and like the final third of the series focused on this, or Future Raph killing Verminator, punching Hitler, and on and on and on.
4) First movie: obviously Raph.
5) Second movie: I disagree that it was Don. He had some existential crises but Raph had his moments of running off on his own and training Keno.
6) Third movie: I don't much remember, but I think Raph and Mike shared the focus.
7) FW cartoon: I think Raph was less important in this, compared to Mikey and especially Don, but there was no real character development in this show anyway, so no one went anywhere. Raph certainly had plenty of lines and jokes.
8 ) Coming out of our shells - Raph was lead singer.
9) Next Mutation - not sure, I think Venus was the main character? But I remember Raph having his angsty going off on his own moments.
10) 2003 series - Raph was the least focused on Turtle in this, but even so he was really the second in command and the passionate one who was always rescuing his brothers and kicking butt.
11) Mirage Volume 4 - Probably Raph was the least focused on Turtle.
12) Tales of the TMNT - too much variety; I don't really know. He certainly got more front pieces than Mikey. Tales Volume 2 was mostly Murphy's hard on for Don.
13) 2007 movie - Another where Raph had an almost embarssing amount of focus. I mean the final battle is all Raph Raph Raph and a bit of Leo. If any Turtle gets a meaningful close up on his face, it's Raph. Don and Mikey are like background blurs who were barely in the movie.
14) IDW series - Raph was the main Turtle for the first 10 or so issues, then it was ensemble, then Leo for a bit, then Don for a bit. Hey, what about Mikey? Who ever gave a crap about Mikey and his development, besides the 2003 series? (I'm being a bit sarcastic; Mikey does have lots of good moments in IDW, but not his own plotline. No one even tries to have Mikey carry an emotional plotline.)
15) PD movie - I know no one cares, but yeah, Raph was totally the main Turtle.

So like, really? Is the situation so intolerable for Raph fans with this new series? Guess what guys? I already have long since given up on the Nick series, mostly because of how stupidly Mikey is treated and how weird Donatello is acting, and the general crappy treatment of April. Enough with Raph already! He's kind of a selfish jerk, especially in the Nick series, so I don't miss him.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by Rooish

Not seeing through the eyes of a Raph fan, I don't really get the problem. I feel like Donny has a disproportionate focus but Raph isn't shafted compared to Leo and Mikey. I mean in the very first episode he was established as the best fighter, and in almost every episode he gets his own particularly kick a$$ action moment in a fight. As mentioned, he is the straight man in this series, which is weird because I thought he was supposed to be the passionate, irrational one, but it makes him seem to be the almost-leader and the most stable character in a way.

The lack of focus is fine by me, since he has been the main, if not one of the main, characters in so many of the other incarnations. And when he is the focus, it's like the writers had such a hard on for him that they can't even remember the other turtles. Let's look at the main characters of each series.

1) Mirage - he carried a lot of the emotional weight in Return to New York. In City at War, Leo was the main Turtle, but Raph had a lot of emphasis as the guy arguing and going off on his own. I think he was either the main Turtle or the second most important in Mirage, depending.
2) Image - I think that Raph had the most development and focus in this, as well, and the coolest arc.
3) Archie - It was almost embarrassing how much of the main character Raph was. Don too but more Raph. Was Mikey even in this series? Do Raph fans realize how shafted Don and Mike usually are? I mean in the Nick cartoon Mikey fans have to deal with Mikey's complete and utter idiocy, worse than ever before. Anyway back to Archie. Raph had a girlfriend and like the final third of the series focused on this, or Future Raph killing Verminator, punching Hitler, and on and on and on.
4) First movie: obviously Raph.
5) Second movie: I disagree that it was Don. He had some existential crises but Raph had his moments of running off on his own and training Keno.
6) Third movie: I don't much remember, but I think Raph and Mike shared the focus.
7) FW cartoon: I think Raph was less important in this, compared to Mikey and especially Don, but there was no real character development in this show anyway, so no one went anywhere. Raph certainly had plenty of lines and jokes.
8 ) Coming out of our shells - Raph was lead singer.
9) Next Mutation - not sure, I think Venus was the main character? But I remember Raph having his angsty going off on his own moments.
10) 2003 series - Raph was the least focused on Turtle in this, but even so he was really the second in command and the passionate one who was always rescuing his brothers and kicking butt.
11) Mirage Volume 4 - Probably Raph was the least focused on Turtle.
12) Tales of the TMNT - too much variety; I don't really know. He certainly got more front pieces than Mikey. Tales Volume 2 was mostly Murphy's hard on for Don.
13) 2007 movie - Another where Raph had an almost embarssing amount of focus. I mean the final battle is all Raph Raph Raph and a bit of Leo. If any Turtle gets a meaningful close up on his face, it's Raph. Don and Mikey are like background blurs who were barely in the movie.
14) IDW series - Raph was the main Turtle for the first 10 or so issues, then it was ensemble, then Leo for a bit, then Don for a bit. Hey, what about Mikey? Who ever gave a crap about Mikey and his development, besides the 2003 series? (I'm being a bit sarcastic; Mikey does have lots of good moments in IDW, but not his own plotline. No one even tries to have Mikey carry an emotional plotline.)
15) PD movie - I know no one cares, but yeah, Raph was totally the main Turtle.

So like, really? Is the situation so intolerable for Raph fans with this new series? Guess what guys? I already have long since given up on it, mostly because of how stupidly Mikey is treated and how weird Donatello is acting. Enough with Raph already! He's kind of a selfish jerk, especially in the Nick series, so I don't miss him.

Uhh, who cares about all the other shows and movies? We're talking about the Nick show seeing as how it's in the Nick section.

You're not a Raph fan so I don't expect you to notice the lack of screen time or development. Hell, they took just about everything away from this character. He doesn't have Casey, He doesn't even have anything going on with Slash anymore, He's the butt of all of Mikey's jokes. He's weak. Any time there is a glimmer of character development it just peters out. At least Mikey has all the filler episodes. What does Raph get? I'm not saying Raph needs to be the main focus but good God throw us Raph fans a bone. Yeah, okay. We get the dark Raph arc but I'm sure it will amount to nothing more than boosting Leo's status even further as the one that beats evil Raph. I'm almost positive the arc will fall flat for Raph as a character.

Raph's a selfish jerk you say? Believe what you want but it sounds to me like you haven't been paying much attention. If that's how the character is seen in your eyes, that's clearly the fault of the terrible writers.

I will give you this. Mikey has turned into a moron in this series which I'm beginning to loathe.

[Sahtori]

A friend of mine who's a huge "Mikey" fan said he has "autism" in the Nicks show. I don't know if that's true.

I love the show. I laugh mostly with Raph's sarcasm. Sometimes he seems the sarcastic way of "the voice of reason' placing Leo back on the ground. I love how much he cares about his brothers...
I'm curious for the dark ark.

To be honest, I'm just happy seeing them all. I don't feel like complaining about the show, though I'm not really a fan of Karai being a Hamato. But each line has their own way of telling it. I guess we'll see more of Raph, don't worry

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by Sahtori

A friend of mine who's a huge "Mikey" fan said he has "autism" in the Nicks show. I don't know if that's true.

I love the show. I laugh mostly with Raph's sarcasm. Sometimes he seems the sarcastic way of "the voice of reason' placing Leo back on the ground. I love how much he cares about his brothers...
I'm curious for the dark ark.

To be honest, I'm just happy seeing them all. I don't feel like complaining about the show, though I'm not really a fan of Karai being a Hamato. But each line has their own way of telling it. I guess we'll see more of Raph, don't worry

It's actually ADHD or ADD not Autism but we won't talk about it in this thread

[jenna]

Originally Posted by Rooish

Not seeing through the eyes of a Raph fan, I don't really get the problem. I feel like Donny has a disproportionate focus but Raph isn't shafted compared to Leo and Mikey. I mean in the very first episode he was established as the best fighter, and in almost every episode he gets his own particularly kick a$$ action moment in a fight. As mentioned, he is the straight man in this series, which is weird because I thought he was supposed to be the passionate, irrational one, but it makes him seem to be the almost-leader and the most stable character in a way.

The lack of focus is fine by me, since he has been the main, if not one of the main, characters in so many of the other incarnations. And when he is the focus, it's like the writers had such a hard on for him that they can't even remember the other turtles. Let's look at the main characters of each series.

1) Mirage - he carried a lot of the emotional weight in Return to New York. In City at War, Leo was the main Turtle, but Raph had a lot of emphasis as the guy arguing and going off on his own. I think he was either the main Turtle or the second most important in Mirage, depending.
2) Image - I think that Raph had the most development and focus in this, as well, and the coolest arc.
3) Archie - It was almost embarrassing how much of the main character Raph was. Don too but more Raph. Was Mikey even in this series? Do Raph fans realize how shafted Don and Mike usually are? I mean in the Nick cartoon Mikey fans have to deal with Mikey's complete and utter idiocy, worse than ever before. Anyway back to Archie. Raph had a girlfriend and like the final third of the series focused on this, or Future Raph killing Verminator, punching Hitler, and on and on and on.
4) First movie: obviously Raph.
5) Second movie: I disagree that it was Don. He had some existential crises but Raph had his moments of running off on his own and training Keno.
6) Third movie: I don't much remember, but I think Raph and Mike shared the focus.
7) FW cartoon: I think Raph was less important in this, compared to Mikey and especially Don, but there was no real character development in this show anyway, so no one went anywhere. Raph certainly had plenty of lines and jokes.
8 ) Coming out of our shells - Raph was lead singer.
9) Next Mutation - not sure, I think Venus was the main character? But I remember Raph having his angsty going off on his own moments.
10) 2003 series - Raph was the least focused on Turtle in this, but even so he was really the second in command and the passionate one who was always rescuing his brothers and kicking butt.
11) Mirage Volume 4 - Probably Raph was the least focused on Turtle.
12) Tales of the TMNT - too much variety; I don't really know. He certainly got more front pieces than Mikey. Tales Volume 2 was mostly Murphy's hard on for Don.
13) 2007 movie - Another where Raph had an almost embarssing amount of focus. I mean the final battle is all Raph Raph Raph and a bit of Leo. If any Turtle gets a meaningful close up on his face, it's Raph. Don and Mikey are like background blurs who were barely in the movie.
14) IDW series - Raph was the main Turtle for the first 10 or so issues, then it was ensemble, then Leo for a bit, then Don for a bit. Hey, what about Mikey? Who ever gave a crap about Mikey and his development, besides the 2003 series? (I'm being a bit sarcastic; Mikey does have lots of good moments in IDW, but not his own plotline. No one even tries to have Mikey carry an emotional plotline.)
15) PD movie - I know no one cares, but yeah, Raph was totally the main Turtle.

So like, really? Is the situation so intolerable for Raph fans with this new series? Guess what guys? I already have long since given up on the Nick series, mostly because of how stupidly Mikey is treated and how weird Donatello is acting, and the general crappy treatment of April. Enough with Raph already! He's kind of a selfish jerk, especially in the Nick series, so I don't miss him.

You're right, Roo, in that as a Raphael fan I am very aware that I've been spoiled by the character development he's had in other versions.

For some reason it seems that film writers are not afraid to give him some focus, whereas the TV series writers seem to "not want to go there". 2k3 had plenty of reference to his anger but dared not dig into its roots or give him any depth. The OT just didn't go there at all. Nick seems to be treading a fine line between the two. Perhaps it's a consciousness of the youngness of the audience which makes kids TV shows unwilling to embrace Raph's angst, whereas films and comics at least have a potentially broader audience.

The thing is, there is more to Raphael than just his temper. Nick have shown us a glimpse of Raph's other qualities, particularly in the Northampton episodes where he stepped up to the challenge of taking responsibility for the family and even the farmhouse.

I think Raph has camera time, it's just not necessarily the kind of camera time that Raph fans expect or crave.

Mikey seems to have plenty of screen time in Nick, but he never seems to grow or develop which again is equally frustrating.

[Rooish]

Sorry for the flip out. Just because Mike/Don fans have gotten used to neglect doesn't mean that Raph fans shouldn't be annoyed by his treatment in the Nick series. I can see that Raph is the butt of jokes and that must be annoying for Raph fans. I just can't help but get annoyed as a Mikey fan, because Mike is usually the butt of jokes throughout the series, and most writers don't try to give him any depth.

I think Raph was a jerk in the early Nick episodes, but he is pretty cool now and I can see why people wish they could see more of this.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Rooish

Not seeing through the eyes of a Raph fan, I don't really get the problem. I feel like Donny has a disproportionate focus but Raph isn't shafted compared to Leo and Mikey. I mean in the very first episode he was established as the best fighter, and in almost every episode he gets his own particularly kick a$$ action moment in a fight. As mentioned, he is the straight man in this series, which is weird because I thought he was supposed to be the passionate, irrational one, but it makes him seem to be the almost-leader and the most stable character in a way.

The lack of focus is fine by me, since he has been the main, if not one of the main, characters in so many of the other incarnations. And when he is the focus, it's like the writers had such a hard on for him that they can't even remember the other turtles. Let's look at the main characters of each series.

1) Mirage - he carried a lot of the emotional weight in Return to New York. In City at War, Leo was the main Turtle, but Raph had a lot of emphasis as the guy arguing and going off on his own. I think he was either the main Turtle or the second most important in Mirage, depending.
2) Image - I think that Raph had the most development and focus in this, as well, and the coolest arc.
3) Archie - It was almost embarrassing how much of the main character Raph was. Don too but more Raph. Was Mikey even in this series? Do Raph fans realize how shafted Don and Mike usually are? I mean in the Nick cartoon Mikey fans have to deal with Mikey's complete and utter idiocy, worse than ever before. Anyway back to Archie. Raph had a girlfriend and like the final third of the series focused on this, or Future Raph killing Verminator, punching Hitler, and on and on and on.
4) First movie: obviously Raph.
5) Second movie: I disagree that it was Don. He had some existential crises but Raph had his moments of running off on his own and training Keno.
6) Third movie: I don't much remember, but I think Raph and Mike shared the focus.
7) FW cartoon: I think Raph was less important in this, compared to Mikey and especially Don, but there was no real character development in this show anyway, so no one went anywhere. Raph certainly had plenty of lines and jokes.
8 ) Coming out of our shells - Raph was lead singer.
9) Next Mutation - not sure, I think Venus was the main character? But I remember Raph having his angsty going off on his own moments.
10) 2003 series - Raph was the least focused on Turtle in this, but even so he was really the second in command and the passionate one who was always rescuing his brothers and kicking butt.
11) Mirage Volume 4 - Probably Raph was the least focused on Turtle.
12) Tales of the TMNT - too much variety; I don't really know. He certainly got more front pieces than Mikey. Tales Volume 2 was mostly Murphy's hard on for Don.
13) 2007 movie - Another where Raph had an almost embarssing amount of focus. I mean the final battle is all Raph Raph Raph and a bit of Leo. If any Turtle gets a meaningful close up on his face, it's Raph. Don and Mikey are like background blurs who were barely in the movie.
14) IDW series - Raph was the main Turtle for the first 10 or so issues, then it was ensemble, then Leo for a bit, then Don for a bit. Hey, what about Mikey? Who ever gave a crap about Mikey and his development, besides the 2003 series? (I'm being a bit sarcastic; Mikey does have lots of good moments in IDW, but not his own plotline. No one even tries to have Mikey carry an emotional plotline.)
15) PD movie - I know no one cares, but yeah, Raph was totally the main Turtle.

So like, really? Is the situation so intolerable for Raph fans with this new series? Guess what guys? I already have long since given up on the Nick series, mostly because of how stupidly Mikey is treated and how weird Donatello is acting, and the general crappy treatment of April. Enough with Raph already! He's kind of a selfish jerk, especially in the Nick series, so I don't miss him.

At least we agree on something, the show as a whole in respecting the core characters, sucks big time. After watching Daredevil on Netflix, I realized that the Turtles really did get the short end of the stick.

[jenna]

Originally Posted by Rooish

Sorry for the flip out. Just because Mike/Don fans have gotten used to neglect doesn't mean that Raph fans shouldn't be annoyed by his treatment in the Nick series. I can see that Raph is the butt of jokes and that must be annoying for Raph fans. I just can't help but get annoyed as a Mikey fan, because Mike is usually the butt of jokes throughout the series, and most writers don't try to give him any depth.

I think Raph was a jerk in the early Nick episodes, but he is pretty cool now and I can see why people wish they could see more of this.

You're right - Mikey fans have just as much reason to be frustrated. I love Mikey and I love Nick's Mikey, but every time he learns something or has significant development, it's all undone by the next episode.

[Jephael]

Originally Posted by jenna

Mikey fans have just as much reason to be frustrated. I love Mikey and I love Nick's Mikey, but every time he learns something or has significant development, it's all undone by the next episode.

Actually, that rings true for all 4 of them. In the Big Foot episode Don realizes he's coming on too strong with his feelings for April and finally decides not to pursue her. Then in the Speed Demon episode he's right back to having the hots for her and fighting with Casey over her.

[jenna]

Originally Posted by Jephael

Actually, that rings true for all 4 of them. In the Big Foot episode Don realizes he's coming on too strong with his feelings for April and finally decides not to pursue her. Then in the Speed Demon episode he's right back to having the hots for her and fighting with Casey over her.

Very good point.

[Tarris Vaal]

Actually, that rings true for all 4 of them. In the Big Foot episode Don realizes he's coming on too strong with his feelings for April and finally decides not to pursue her. Then in the Speed Demon episode he's right back to having the hots for her and fighting with Casey over her.

Though in all fairness for that, April's mixed signals hardly helped. I think anyone could be forgiven for getting confused.
It would have been better if they had at least referenced what had happened at the end of Big Foot though - rather than diving into the squabbling again.


Anyway - enough of Don, this is Raph's thread - would be kinda terrible if a thread arguing Raph doesn't get enough focus goes off tangent talking about Donnie!

How did Raph do in this latest ep?

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

Though in all fairness for that, April's mixed signals hardly helped. I think anyone could be forgiven for getting confused.
It would have been better if they had at least referenced what had happened at the end of Big Foot though - rather than diving into the squabbling again.


Anyway - enough of Don, this is Raph's thread - would be kinda terrible if a thread arguing Raph doesn't get enough focus goes off tangent talking about Donnie!

How did Raph do in this latest ep?

He was cool from what I can recalled. Being his usual self of punch first and ask questions later.

This whole episode had zero plot amnesia which really shocked me to no end. Everybody in this episode recalled from previous events, even the garbage man remember his past encounters of pervious mutants of the week. It was so weird to see this having so much continuity.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by Rooish

Sorry for the flip out. Just because Mike/Don fans have gotten used to neglect doesn't mean that Raph fans shouldn't be annoyed by his treatment in the Nick series. I can see that Raph is the butt of jokes and that must be annoying for Raph fans. I just can't help but get annoyed as a Mikey fan, because Mike is usually the butt of jokes throughout the series, and most writers don't try to give him any depth.

I think Raph was a jerk in the early Nick episodes, but he is pretty cool now and I can see why people wish they could see more of this.

You're probably not addressing me specifically but I flipped out a bit as well. I just get really annoyed when he's clearly getting very little good quality screen time in this series and people insist that he is and when people only see Raph as the angry jerk. There's much more to him but the writers refuse to go there with him or if they do, it doesn't really amount to anything. I want there to be more to Raph than just being there in the background and only throwing out a quick sarcastic remark here and there.

As for Mikey, I feel you totally. That's another case where there's so much to the character but all they do is make him into an annoying goofball. I don't know where they get the idea that just because you're a happy go lucky person you have to be goofy and or an idiot. At least he has a decent amount of screen time but it's overshadowed by their need to make him an idiot when he doesn't need to be.

I just wish we could get better writers on this show. I'm not expecting Shakespeare but we need a group of people that write all of them equally and do it very well.

The show isn't horrible but it's becoming less enjoyable for me.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

There's much more to him but the writers refuse to go there with him or if they do, it doesn't really amount to anything.

Sadly I feel that could be said for all of them really. They've all kind of fallen into being about their most basic role or quality and it doesn't go too far beyond that anymore.

Leo has been fortunate in being probably the only one that's actually noticeably grown a bit (Donnie sorta, though he keep taking a step back), but it's been at the expense of losing other aspects and like everyone else any progress is in only one direction, it doesn't branch out more into who any of them are as individuals beyond their base role/quality in the group. Individually, they're little more than tropes right now.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Sadly I feel that could be said for all of them really. They've all kind of fallen into being about their most basic role or quality and it doesn't go too far beyond that anymore.

Leo has been fortunate in being probably the only one that's actually noticeably grown a bit (Donnie sorta, though he keep taking a step back), but it's been at the expense of losing other aspects and like everyone else any progress is in only one direction, it doesn't branch out more into who any of them are as individuals beyond their base role/quality in the group. Individually, they're little more than tropes right now.

I'll agree with that but as far as screen time goes, Donnie and Leo get a lot. There's no denying it. I just wish Raph got a bit more and played an important part to the group once in a while. I don't think it's too much to ask really.

[IndigoErth]

Well, I tell ya what... I hope the Dark Raph bit lasts for at least a few episodes and is so amazing that Raph's fans end up needing clean pants. Take that however you wish. lol

[senpai]

I'm hoping that the Dark Raph bit will leave a dent on Raph's personality in some way. Like maybe he'll be more protective of his brothers, or he might be more sensitive after its all over. I just don't see someone taking being brainwashed in stride. Especially since he's gonna be attacking and hurting his family... You don't just say sorry and walk away. Something else has to happen in the brain afterwards.

[jenna]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Well, I tell ya what... I hope the Dark Raph bit lasts for at least a few episodes

Originally Posted by senpai

I'm hoping that the Dark Raph bit will leave a dent on Raph's personality in some way.

I hope for both of these as well. The optimist in me thinks they'd recognise that they'd be mad not to capitalise on the opportunity for such good storytelling by giving it decent airtime and meaty character stuff. The cynic in me thinks back to the Parasitica episode, shrugs and thinks, "Meh."

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Well, I tell ya what... I hope the Dark Raph bit lasts for at least a few episodes and is so amazing that Raph's fans end up needing clean pants. Take that however you wish. lol

The way these writers are, I see no need for an extra pair of clean pants. I predict it will be a missed opportunity for Raph as a character but that's just me.