Did you like Krang's retcon?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by neatoman

This isn't really about opinons, it's about how he's most likely a troll. I mean look at this crap:

It's contradictory, no sane person argues like this. He has to be a troll, I literally gave the timescale of 1984-1987 and he somehow tries imply I said both started in 1984.

If he is a troll indeed, then he was won because he got the reaction that he wanted.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

If he is a troll indeed, then he was won because he got the reaction that he wanted.

... Yeah, OK. I guess you're right about that... I'll just try to pretend he doesn't exist, hopefully he'll lose interest in this forum and go accuse people of being 14 while behaving like he's 10 somewhere else...

[Tartaruhga Muhtante]

Details ... I really don't care about it in that sense. Even if there are inconsistencies between the Fred Wolf Cartoon and what is shown on Nickelodeon I think that's despicable.

[Tartaruhga Muhtante]

At other times I would have cared, but nowadays it really doesn't matter with me now.

[neatoman]

Funny thing is, years ago i read that the comic strip ilplied that Krang was an Utrom. Well I finally tracked down the strip where that was implied, turns out it's not just implacation, it outright said that's what he was. So Krang being an Utrom has been a thing since the mid-90's, not exactly 21st century revision after all.

[ToTheNines]

That was Archie Krang though. Not Fred Wolf.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

That was Archie Krang though. Not Fred Wolf.

Oh, yeah...

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

In my personal headcanon, Transdimensional Turtles takes place right after the OT episode Shredder Triumphant and before the episode Get Shredder, thus explaining how Krang needed the Krang to get to Dimension X and was seperated from the technodrome at the end. After being constantly defeated by the turtles so many times, he finally snapped after he lost the technodrome, causing him to resort to trying to destroy all the turtle realities in his insane outburst.

Always thought Krang's bubble-walker robot fell out of the Technodrome before the Technodrome fell through the portal in "Shredder Triumphant" and Krang's android is returned to the Technodrome in "Turtle Trek", still inside in "Divide and Conquer".

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

You are a troll, there is pretty much no way you aren't. Literally everything you wrote here is woefully off point, even contradictory to your own statements, you'd have to have actual mental problems to argue like this.

The way you're arguing reminds me a lot of ZariusTwo, I suspected he was a troll as well but it turned he's literally autistic (not autistic as in some childish attempt at an insult, as in he's actually diagnosed with aspergers). Are you autistic by the way? Because if you are, I'll understand.

No more autistic than you, but I also don't a topic on why a writer from the 80s cartoon stole from Superman just because I don't like the writer.

Originally Posted by neatoman

It's contradictory, no sane person argues like this. He has to be a troll, I literally gave the timescale of 1984-1987 and he somehow tries imply I said both started in 1984.

I mistyped slightly that but you're trying to say I think the cartoon was created in 1984? Does that make sense? Also I haven't been the one criticising and slagging off people's views for not liking a cartoon series. I appreciate nearly all TMNT unlike you...so who's the troll exactly?

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

This arguement is pointless. It laughable to accuse others of mental illness over their opinions on Ninja turtles and to be very serious about it.

Apparently I'm the one who's delusional, must be due to neatoman's medical assessment since he's apparently a doctor and yes I do find calling me autistic offensive as anyone would along with childish.

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

If he is a troll indeed, then he was won because he got the reaction that he wanted.

I was under the impression neatoman was?

Originally Posted by neatoman

I'll just try to pretend he doesn't exist, hopefully he'll lose interest in this forum and go accuse people of being 14 while behaving like he's 10 somewhere else...

You're behaving like a child yourself because you can't respect other people's opinions. Grow up!

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by pferreira

You're behaving like a child yourself because you can't respect other people's opinions. Grow up!

You're an idiot if you believe that's what this is about, it's not about your opinion, it's about your nonsensical statements. You can have your opinion, just don't claim the show wasn't a cheap toy commercial, because we know otherwise. We know it was commissioned by a toy company, we know it continued to market toys, we know the production rushed and we know it cut corners.

You can like the show all you want, just don't try to excuse the shoddy production.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

You're an idiot if you believe that's what this is about, it's not about your opinion, it's about your nonsensical statements. You can have your opinion, just don't claim the show wasn't a cheap toy commercial, because we know otherwise. We know it was commissioned by a toy company, we know it continued to market toys, we know the production rushed and we know it cut corners.

You can like the show all you want, just don't try to excuse the shoddy production.

You're 'criticisms' can be levelled at any TMNT comic book, animated series, video game or merchandise bar the original Mirage one as that came first. I show respect to something that isn't any more a cash in than your precious IDW comic book. In fact I'll add I've shown more respect for other people's opinions on this forum than you have so I'm guessing you're actually the idiot.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by pferreira

I show respect to something that isn't any more a cash in than your precious IDW comic book.

The Fred Wolf cartoon was designed to be a toy commercial and it cut corners to make sure the profits were as high as possible, the IDW comic is meant to earn money through keeping the readers' interest rather than sponging off the success of a toyline, that's a huge difference. Yes, both were meant to earn money but one did it in a rather cynical way.

There's no reason to respect the Fred Wolf cartoon from an artistic perspective, maybe from a marketing perspective but not a creative one.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

The Fred Wolf cartoon was designed to be a toy commercial and it cut corners to make sure the profits were as high as possible, the IDW comic is meant to earn money through keeping the readers' interest rather than sponging off the success of a toyline, that's a huge difference. Yes, both were meant to earn money but one did it in a rather cynical way.

There's no reason to respect the Fred Wolf cartoon from an artistic perspective, maybe from a marketing perspective but not a creative one.

You say I'm delusional...It doesn't matter how you spin it the Fred Wolf cartoon was originally made for a toy line so that could make money while something like the IDW comic was made to promote the franchise. Both had artistry behind it, both had qualified animators and the same intentions. The only difference is now most people who work on new incarnations of the franchise bring nostalgia with them. THAT is the only difference. Both are as cynical as you can make them if you want. The OT cartoon was made past a second season because Fred Wolf thought there might be a want for it, IDW have continued making their comic book because there's a want for it. Both were made to promote the franchise, make it successful. Same thing, not sure why you think what you grew up with is valid and what I grew up with isn't.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by pferreira

You say I'm delusional...It doesn't how you spin it the Fred Wolf cartoon was originally made for a toy line so that could make money while something like the IDW comic was made to promote the franchise. Both had artistry behind it, both had qualified animators and the same intentions. The only difference is now most people who work on new incarnations of the franchise bring nostalgia with them. THAT is the only difference. Both are as cynical as you can make them if you want. The OT cartoon was made past a second season because Fred Wolf thought there might be a want for it, IDW have continued making their comic book because there's a want for it. Both were made to promote the franchise, make it successful. Same thing, not sure why you think what you grew up with is valid and what I grew up with isn't.

I don't think comics have animators, not really necessary.

What I'm getting at however is that disguising a literal commercial as a television show is an inherently more cynical tactic, especially if you don't even bother making sure the production errors are kept to a minimum. There really isn't much artistry behind something like that.

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by neatoman

There's no reason to respect the Fred Wolf cartoon from an artistic perspective, maybe from a marketing perspective but not a creative one.

Considering that it defined the franchise, remains entertaining to rewatch/see for the first time at worst, and inspired some great installments in the franchise, I think it deserves respect.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I don't think comics have animators, not really necessary.

Artists, animators, still in the same job of artistry.

Originally Posted by neatoman

What I'm getting at however is that disguising a literal commercial as a television show is an inherently more cynical tactic, especially if you don't even bother making sure the production errors are kept to a minimum. There really isn't much artistry behind something like that.

Two points I want to note. Firstly in terms of comparing the 80s cartoon to a toy commercial you need to look at the big competition at the time and what they were doing. He-Man was massive in the early 90s as was GI Joe, they were made to sell toys but could still be fun to watch. Is Turtles on the same level. Not really, I feel the writing and overall production was better. Fred Wolf says on the Turtle Power documentary he wanted the series to be more than just another toy commercial. Now compare Transformers to the Fred Wolf cartoon which was nothing but a toy commercial to the point that Hasbro dictated which Transformers needed to be included in which episode based on popularity or to raise market awareness. Hasbro even told writer David Wise in the Season 4 finale to include every single Transformer in less script time than he had on the page. The animation in the cartoon series at times explicitly shows the viewer (the child) how a character transforms so the viewer on a subconscious level remembers this when he goes to buy the toy. The Fred Wolf cartoon series wasn't bad at all compared to Transformers, at least the former tried to develop it's characters, with the G1 show that wasn't possible as new Transformers had to be included every episode or killed off (the 1986 movie) or phased out due to being unpopular.

Secondly the 80s cartoon as I have mentioned before wasn't done on a big budget. It wasn't produced by Disney or Warner Bros but an independent studio. The budget increased a little when the show became big and went to CBS but it was still viewed as a cartoon so it was to be made cheaply as animation wasn't taken seriously at the time.

Originally Posted by WebLurker

Considering that it defined the franchise, remains entertaining to rewatch/see for the first time at worst, and inspired some great installments in the franchise, I think it deserves respect.

I agree, it did more right than wrong.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by pferreira

Artists, animators, still in the same job of artistry.

Two points I want to note. Firstly in terms of comparing the 80s cartoon to a toy commercial you need to look at the big competition at the time and what they were doing. He-Man was massive in the early 90s as was GI Joe, they were made to sell toys but could still be fun to watch. Is Turtles on the same level. Not really, I feel the writing and overall production was better. Fred Wolf says on the Turtle Power documentary he wanted the series to be more than just another toy commercial. Now compare Transformers to the Fred Wolf cartoon which was nothing but a toy commercial to the point that Hasbro dictated which Transformers needed to be included in which episode based on popularity or to raise market awareness. Hasbro even told writer David Wise in the Season 4 finale to include every single Transformer in less script time than he had on the page. The animation in the cartoon series at times explicitly shows the viewer (the child) how a character transforms so the viewer on a subconscious level remembers this when he goes to buy the toy. The Fred Wolf cartoon series wasn't bad at all compared to Transformers, at least the former tried to develop it's characters, with the G1 show that wasn't possible as new Transformers had to be included every episode or killed off (the 1986 movie) or phased out due to being unpopular.

Secondly the 80s cartoon as I have mentioned before wasn't done on a big budget. It wasn't produced by Disney or Warner Bros but an independent studio. The budget increased a little when the show became big and went to CBS but it was still viewed as a cartoon so it was to be made cheaply as animation wasn't taken seriously at the time.

I agree, it did more right than wrong.

Yes, I suppose that when compared to the slightly older cartoons like Transformers, which had a way larger toylines to promote by the way, it's somewhat less insulting. If you start out with ten action figures to promote, then of course there's going to be more focus on a handful of character than if you started out with forty action figures to promote.

That doesn't really make it good though, it just makes it a little less shameless than what came out before. The show had a hamster mutate into a human sumo wrestler covered in tattoos, just for the sake of promoting a toy, so it's still a shameless toy commercial.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Yes, I suppose that when compared to the slightly older cartoons like Transformers, which had a way larger toylines to promote by the way, it's somewhat less insulting. If you start out with ten action figures to promote, then of course there's going to be more focus on a handful of character than if you started out with forty action figures to promote.

That doesn't really make it good though, it just makes it a little less shameless than what came out before. The show had a hamster mutate into a human sumo wrestler covered in tattoos, just for the sake of promoting a toy, so it's still a shameless toy commercial.

Archie-Tattoo was actually more well-written, and no mutant. He should've been like that instead.

[Garfield]

Nope. I hate it.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Garfield

Nope. I hate it.

Did you really hate Archie-Tattoo?