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View Poll Results: Can you see a Turtle changing teams at some point?
Yes 1 11.11%
No 1 11.11%
Could be interesting 3 33.33%
If they do it will likely be only one episode 4 44.44%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-21-2020, 09:13 PM   #1
victory_angel
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Anyone see any of the Turtles joining a bad guy team

The turtles are not a cohesive team in this incarnation, does anyone see the possibility of any of the Turtles joining the Foot Clan or Draxum's Army. If yes, who?

I can see Donnie changing sides at some point in this incarnation. One we've never really seen him in the role of a villain, Raph and Leo have changed sides or made choices that have put them at odds with the rest of their family.

In their case, they switch sides either by force such as through mind control or hypnosis, or they consciously make a choice they feel is for the greater good, but ends up causing problems.

Mikey if he's been the bad guy at all it's generally through something beyond his control such as mental suggestion. If TMNT 2007 had continued its trilogy we would have seen Mikey consciously join the Foot Clan.

Donnie is the only one who hasn't been in a villainous role. The only time he is antagonistic is if something happens that forces him to turn sides or to act in a hostile manner. And even then those are rare.

However, the most dangerous opponent you can have is the one you fail you see. And both the 2012 and Rise series, Donnie is more or less invisible to the others. And Rise Donnie has shown, he has no qualms about hurting his bros if it suits his interests. Such as when he first created Shelldon to do chores for them, but it was programmed to favor Donnie. While the others have shown they are all too willing to hurt him back if it knocks his ego down a peg.

So I could see Donnie joining the Foot Clan or Draxum's forces, even if doing so was originally intended as infiltration and finding something that could take one group or the other down for good. Only to find that maybe that side does have things that suits his interests or makes him feel like he means something. Either that or he's found out and forced onto compliance.
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Old 05-22-2020, 07:19 PM   #2
The Great Saiyaman
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I get the point you're making but when it comes to EGO, none of the Turtles is as bad as Leo. And I can sum him up in only two words:

"Bragging rights!"

His desire to win regardless of the costs, has put him at odds with not just the other turtles but also with the Police of the Hidden city, Señor Huesos, that librarian and god knows who else who just happened to be standing in his way to yet another victory. And Leo loves Victories but more than that he loves the fact that he can brag about his victories. And in order to obtain his bragging rights he DOES everything: cheat, play dirty and sometimes cause harm.

I wouldn't be surprised if he already has a criminal record seeing how much laws (And Cars, interior of buildings such as Señor Hueso's restaurant and professional lives) he has broken. Also Leo is a pathological liar and a hypocrite, in a degree which is worse than Donnie, he doesn't like being in trouble but also doesn't put in any effort to stay out of trouble either.

So under what circumstances would Leo change sides?

Perhaps when there's a competition element involved and an opportunity to gain the upper hand over his brothers, have bragging right for all time, knowing that they will never upstage him.
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Old 05-22-2020, 08:25 PM   #3
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You make some rather good points about Leo and some reasonable speculation. Sadly. (Damn you, 'Rise.')
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Old 05-25-2020, 03:08 PM   #4
victory_angel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Saiyaman View Post
I get the point you're making but when it comes to EGO, none of the Turtles is as bad as Leo. And I can sum him up in only two words:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20191013120033
"Bragging rights!"

His desire to win regardless of the costs, has put him at odds with not just the other turtles but also with the Police of the Hidden city, Señor Huesos, that librarian and god knows who else who just happened to be standing in his way to yet another victory. And Leo loves Victories but more than that he loves the fact that he can brag about his victories. And in order to obtain his bragging rights he DOES everything: cheat, play dirty and sometimes cause harm.

I wouldn't be surprised if he already has a criminal record seeing how much laws (And Cars, interior of buildings such as Señor Hueso's restaurant and professional lives) he has broken. Also Leo is a pathological liar and a hypocrite, in a degree which is worse than Donnie, he doesn't like being in trouble but also doesn't put in any effort to stay out of trouble either.

So under what circumstances would Leo change sides?

Perhaps when there's a competition element involved and an opportunity to gain the upper hand over his brothers, have bragging right for all time, knowing that they will never upstage him.
I was thinking of that episode where Ghost Bear debuted. Mikey was taking things that Donnie wanted without consideration. The last slice of Pizza was one thing, but that Einstein wig, Donnie had a plan for it and Mikey just takes it puts it on and said: "How Do I look?" Donnie then responds by giving this really evil-looking tooth grinding grin that just screams "I'm going to kill you slowly and painfully." and responds by saying "Like someone who doesn't know what is coming."

Then later when the whole wrestling fanfare starts, Donnie publicly announces he's joining Raph's team as a means of getting back at Mikey.
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:16 PM   #5
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Okay I know you guys don't like Rise but seriously you guys are thinking that the fact the turtles have flaws that means they are going to join either the Foot(despite being on hiatus and Recruit having independent plans) or Draxum's army(which isn't even a thing anymore). By that logic 12 Donnie is going to join the foot because both he and Saki can't get over the fact a girl might like them as a friend, or 12 Raph is evil because he beats his brothers, or maybe 12 Mikey is the next main antagonist because he is super careless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Saiyaman View Post
I get the point you're making but when it comes to EGO, none of the Turtles is as bad as Leo. And I can sum him up in only two words:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20191013120033
"Bragging rights!"
You know he lost on purpose in the end right so not really "Bragging Rights!"


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Saiyaman View Post
His desire to win regardless of the costs, has put him at odds with not just the other turtles but also with the Police of the Hidden city, Señor Huesos, that librarian and god knows who else who just happened to be standing in his way to yet another victory.
He was never at odds with the Police of the Hidden city, he was somewhat at odds with Huesos but not for his desire to win but because he wanted to save his brothers, the Librarian he wanted to save Mayhem so not really "victory"


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Saiyaman View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if he already has a criminal record seeing how much laws (And Cars, interior of buildings such as Señor Hueso's restaurant and professional lives) he has broken. Also Leo is a pathological liar and a hypocrite, in a degree which is worse than Donnie, he doesn't like being in trouble but also doesn't put in any effort to stay out of trouble either.
You know this is TMNT right, a franchise about vigilantes who fight crime and cause a few property damage(including cars) so I will never understand why you only bring this fact when it comes to the Rise turtles when ever iteration is guilty of this. Also Rise Leo I'll admit is more roguish compared to the other iterations but you make it sound like he is a sociopath, like he ain't perfect but he isn't a monster. Also I would make the argument that 12 Leo is more of a hypocrite than Rise is at least Rise Leo didn't go on high horse and tell people "revenge is bad" all the while he held up Shredder's head like a trophy.
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:01 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by victory_angel View Post
Donnie is the only one who hasn't been in a villainous role. The only time he is antagonistic is if something happens that forces him to turn sides or to act in a hostile manner. And even then those are rare.
If we're talking about the franchise as a whole, then Don has been shown as being morally grey. The Mirage comics show him as being willing to experiment on animals, and he has kept the cyborg Baxter Stockman chained up in his lab for two decades.

The Image run had a villainous AI try to take over his mind after turning him into a cyborg, causing him to act erratically.

While not being inherently evil or outright villainous, he is the the most willing to blur the lines of morality, especially when it's in the name of science.
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Old 06-03-2020, 02:02 AM   #7
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If we're talking about the franchise as a whole, then Don has been shown as being morally grey. The Mirage comics show him as being willing to experiment on animals, and he has kept the cyborg Baxter Stockman chained up in his lab for two decades.

The Image run had a villainous AI try to take over his mind after turning him into a cyborg, causing him to act erratically.

While not being inherently evil or outright villainous, he is the the most willing to blur the lines of morality, especially when it's in the name of science.

Let's not forget the point in the 1987 series where Donatello creates a clone of himself so he has a copy of himself to do his chores while he is able to do the stuff he wants to do. This clone responds by locking Don in the closet and then insults the other Turtles to the point that insinuating that Michelangelo is reet.

As he does comment that Raphael is stupid and then when Michaelangelo steps in Donatello says "Well compared to you, he's a rocket scientist"

And the other turtles do look somewhat uncomfortable when Donnie eliminates the clone he made of himself.

Then there is the Dark Turtle episode where all the other turtles are poking fun at Donatello for being a weaker fighter. Don defensively says he can take out the Shredder on his own if he wanted to and tries to prove it. Only to get wounded which causes him to go into a psychosis that makes him viciously want to go after the Shredder and kill him once and for all. He goes as far as to attack his companions and Sensei for getting in his way.

These show samples of what Don could be as a villain if pushed to certain extreme.

With some of the more recent incarnations such as the 2012 and the 2003 version. Donnie's greatest fear is losing and not being able to protect those he loves and cares about.

Even the way he was telling Mikey to be careful while the two of them are going to retrieve Splinter is sounds like he is saying "Mikey, I don't want to lose you too."

Donnie also puts himself at risk for those he loves. So, in other words, his family and those he views as family are both his greatest strength and greatest weakness. So by that regard, if he was to lose or be separated from his brothers for an extensive period of time, there is a possibility he could go mad. And that could serve as a catalyst for going into a villainous role.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:29 PM   #8
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Maybe for a 2 parter or something.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:45 PM   #9
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It just struck me that having Jennika becoming evil might actually be what they're going for. She started out as a villain (even if it was shortlived) and has plenty of reason to be disgruntled at this point. Plus the fact that she's not one of the "real" turtles makes such a twist relatively safe from backlash.

Edit: I kinda ****ed up here, I thought I was on the general forum. Still, this notion isn't a bad one even if it's the wrong place for it. So I'm just gonna let it stay up until I find a similar thread on the general or comic forum.
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Old 06-08-2020, 02:06 PM   #10
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Edit: I kinda ****ed up here, I thought I was on the general forum. Still, this notion isn't a bad one even if it's the wrong place for it. So I'm just gonna let it stay up until I find a similar thread on the general or comic forum.
Lol I've posted in the wrong thread several times.

Really the idea of good guys going bad is a typical play in a cartoon writer's handbook. You don't even need a legit reason for it to happen, that's why mind control is a thing.
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