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Old 01-05-2014, 04:27 PM   #181
BubblyShell22
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Well, it was good of you to do that, and I loved that reference to the Cartoon All-Stars movie. That was brilliant on your part.
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Old 01-06-2014, 12:52 AM   #182
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Yep, finishing a story does make one feel releived knowing you've commited to something even in periods where you feel it was going at a right snail's pace and other work commitments were creeping up on you. I just got busier and buisier all year. I remember when I started these fics and was updating on a daily basis. I don't know if I'll quite replicate that feat again.
Hey Zarius! Hope you had a great Christmas and New Year's!

As for the fanfic writing, the rate of writing can be a parabola with the middle being a trough in terms of progress. In the beginning, there's the initial excitement of starting something new, but then it can transition into a routine thing as one realizes the magnitude of the project or sometimes with other errands/tasks going on, but as the end is in sight, the pace quickens as the excitement rushes back upon realizing how close one is to completing it.

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Now let's all get high and enjoy the real reason I wrote "Dreggs": To "canonize" Cartoon All-Stars To The Rescue
I'm curiously interested now to read these last chapters now, and I'll have to read and review it soon Zarius! ...But I have to admit I also included a reference to that special in my fanfic too!

Whenever I see that special, I remember some of the funny comments my peers made at that time or afterward in hindsight, saying that it could encourage kids to try drugs so they could hallucinate to their favorite cartoon characters or how ironic that it was Michelangelo in the special, considering who his surfer personality was based off of. (In addition, some of the kids at the time were disappointed that not all four of the Turtles were in the special.)
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Old 01-06-2014, 06:12 AM   #183
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Whenever I see that special, I remember some of the funny comments my peers made at that time or afterward in hindsight, saying that it could encourage kids to try drugs so they could hallucinate to their favorite cartoon characters or how ironic that it was Michelangelo in the special, considering who his surfer personality was based off of. (In addition, some of the kids at the time were disappointed that not all four of the Turtles were in the special.)
Maybe one of us should bring up that other Drug PSA where Mikey suggests the kid get a pizza instead of help when he's offered Marijuna
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Old 01-13-2014, 01:38 AM   #184
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Whenever I see that special, I remember some of the funny comments my peers made at that time or afterward in hindsight, saying that it could encourage kids to try drugs so they could hallucinate to their favorite cartoon characters or how ironic that it was Michelangelo in the special, considering who his surfer personality was based off of. (In addition, some of the kids at the time were disappointed that not all four of the Turtles were in the special.)
...So Zarius , a couple of the peer comments that I recollected, which made me laugh back then and now was at the scene 12:35 when Mike is with his friends at the park. I remember one small girl back in the day was convinced that blond girl was supposed to be Debbie Gibson, because of the hair color and hat. Then a couple of other girls, got upset saying that wholesome Debbie Gibson wouldn't steal money and try to score crack. Those three got so worked up over it.

Or how a few kids were actually sad at the end of the movie because at 25:30, the cartoon characters were leaving and would only return if Smoke (the ghost villain) returned. They called out before the video could end, "C'mon Mike! Smoke marijuana again so we can see our cartoon friends again!"
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:18 AM   #185
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Wow, the simularities between Debbie and the girl are quite striking arent they? Maybe the writers were being a little coy about that....
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:41 AM   #186
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"The Dreggs of Society" (The Seventh Novella) Review

So this fanfic was somewhat different than the previous fanfics you have written before because of the dream vs. reality sequences; in addition, it dealt with time travel, making the story/plot not as "linear" as before. So it took me some time to digest the story in its entirety. This review is a bit scattered, so bear with me here.

Michelangelo:
In the first chapter with Michelangelo's mind interpreting that he was human from the EDX, and the sensation of "double life" experience, I was wondering if story would have some references to The Gang's All Here episode and possibly explore the innate desire of fully experiencing of being a human again. I thought maybe the story's theme would weigh against Michelangelo being torn between being a Turtle vs. wanting to a human, but it didn't...

The story evolved to where Michelangelo's dreams were progressing into a nightmare where he was becoming increasingly more burdening and taxing. What surprised me, is that in the last chapter, you kept Michelangelo's clairvoyance. ...I'm a bit curious why you chose Michelangelo to have this capability, and if you will expand or come back to this in subsequent fanfics. Hmmm.... guess I'll find out in time. And clever way Zarius of "canonizing" Cartoon All-Stars To The Rescue! Your writing did a good job of bring it in and making it believable.


The Villains:
As for the Dregg aspect of the story, I'm kind of glad you kept Dregg physically dead (as it was his implied fate in Divide and Conquer when Donatello said Krang's android body would implode in a few seconds) to make the OT universe evolve and "move forward" rather than having an abrupt explanation to keep him physically alive (as if he miraculously saved himself from the implosion), and therefore undermining the Divide and Conquer episode.

I enjoyed how you made Dregg "live on" through the psyche, but in a much more insidious way by using Kirby as a disguise. Also, it was good writing on your part on Chapter 14 to give Michelangelo this clairvoyance (with Donatello's contribution) to explain how Michelangelo could detect Dregg as Kirby in his dreams. It was tricky (considering how having any plot holes could destroy the time continuum in the OT universe...), but you managed to pull it off! Hmmm... but I kind of sensed you were putting a lot of effort to explain the logic with time travel, dichotomy of good vs. evil, and dreams vs. reality, so that all of the reader's questions and any points against your story's turn of events would be answered. Am I right...?

As for Hi-Tech and Mung... I was hoping the Turtles could have battled/encountered either Hi-Tech or Mung though somehow, and in the process make Dregg's threats, more tangibly menacing (similar to Michelangelo confronting Dregg)... If I'm making sense. I kind of felt they (Hi-Tech and Mung) were too far in the background of the story, considering this was the "Red Sky" novella within your ten script series.

With Titanus, it was pleasant surprise to see him again, but it would have been interesting to have the conversation between him and Mung be within the story and see how they came together exactly.

One aspect that I think was unexplored was seeing how Rebecca and Saw Boss were associated with Mung exactly, or if they were part of a whole other villain organization... possibly...? I guess I was looking to see how Mung and especially why, he or whoever ordered Rebecca and Saw Boss, to choose that particular time (your time in this seventh fanfic) as being the best time to initiate the plan considering Mung had any point in time to choose from.


The Relationships:
As I mentioned before in your writing sample excerpt, I'm glad to see Michelangelo and April's relationship evolving. Just as you responded, most fanfics skip through the "slow and steady" aspects of it and I enjoy you bringing these moments in your fanfic. It gets cliche and annoying when most TMNT romance-oriented fanfics (or probably most romantic fanfics in general) want to only display the extreme aspects of it: the first kiss, the break-up fights, the jealousy, the extreme passionate makeout session, blah blah blah... all of the elements that take the fanfic into soap opera territory, and thus making it more unrealistic.

I gotta admit I found April's dream of her "teenage self" hilarious in which you had to incorporate your current criticism of Nick TMNT into the story. Not that's bad to do that, but you felt... compelled to put it into your story. In the end though, it did helped to support April's devotion to Michelangelo.


Final thoughts:
The characters were spot-on, but I think Michelangelo was a bit too intellectual at times knowing words like cerebellum, or lines like "I didn't know how to react well to the other dudes so I temporarily retreated into myself to cope." (Ch. 13)

But... It seems this story and the one before it ("The Flies That Came To Dinner"), are placing these anticipated villains (Baxter, Hi-Tech, and Mung) too far in the background where it seems there's an intermediary (a mad scientist or another villain) who's fighting or scheming more so against the Turtles than the actual OT villains, unlike in "Mutants and Miracles" and the stories before that, which made the Turtles encounter these villains again.

I guess a couple of things I'm kind of hoping for in the stories are:
1) I'm hoping that maybe there can be a bit of the brother bonding/relationship between the Turtles, similar to what you had in "Mutants and Miracles".
2) I'm feeling that Leonardo's and Raphael's individual character development are a bit stagnated ever since "Mutants and Miracles", with the exception of April talking with Leonardo about her distrust of them in during Season 8's State of Shock in "The Flies That Came To Dinner" fanfic.

Until next time Zarius...
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Society consistently complains about the absence of love in society, but in a self-absorbed narcissism driven society, love will not germinate. It's because the purest expression of love is self-sacrificial behavior for the benefit of others, and who would want to make those sacrifices to their own detriment?

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Old 01-14-2014, 05:59 AM   #187
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Thanks for the informative review as ever JYX. You pull no punches.

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I'm a bit curious why you chose Michelangelo to have this capability, and if you will expand or come back to this in subsequent fanfics. Hmmm.... guess I'll find out in time. And clever way Zarius of "canonizing" Cartoon All-Stars To The Rescue! Your writing did a good job of bring it in and making it believable.
Mainly because Mikey had those weird dreams that prophesised the future in one of the final episodes of the original series, second sight characters have always fascinated me and for it to happen to the most laid back of all the Turtles made for compelling development, as if Mikey is somewhat destined for greater things down the line.
.
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Hmmm... but I kind of sensed you were putting a lot of effort to explain the logic with time travel, dichotomy of good vs. evil, and dreams vs. reality, so that all of the reader's questions and any points against your story's turn of events would be answered. Am I right...?
Spot on there. Writing time travel stories can be a tricky process and sometimes even the best of series about it like Doctor Who can sometimes leave the viewer cold with a bare bones explanation on how certain things work (i.e the weaker faults of Steven Moffat's post-RTD era scripts), I didnt want this story leaving people that lost so a good bit of info-dumping holds their hand and gains their trust so they can follow the story as it becomes more indulgent in the tropes.

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As for Hi-Tech and Mung... I was hoping the Turtles could have battled/encountered either Hi-Tech or Mung though somehow, and in the process make Dregg's threats, more tangibly menacing (similar to Michelangelo confronting Dregg)... If I'm making sense. I kind of felt they (Hi-Tech and Mung) were too far in the background of the story, considering this was the "Red Sky" novella within your ten script series.
Sorry about that, I figured since I was packing this so full of red sky era villains, from Titanus to Dregg, to Carter etc, they just became a victim of keeping things coherant and to deliver the most straight-forward story I could possibly write within the confines of my novella paremeters. The book is already one of the longest in terms of chapter. I wanted it to be a straight-forward mission for Donatello and Carter. Flip flopping over time periods wouldnt have good for pacing purposes.

Quote:
With Titanus, it was pleasant surprise to see him again, but it would have been interesting to have the conversation between him and Mung be within the story and see how they came together exactly.
Fun Fact Time There was a conversation between the two of them in earlier drafts, but I decided Titanus wouldnt have had anything to explain to Don or Carter, who are portals for the audience, to have them learn as the heroes learn etc. Just trying to make it feel more Saturday morning where the hero learns of the diabolical plan and it's full scale.

Quote:
One aspect that I think was unexplored was seeing how Rebecca and Saw Boss were associated with Mung exactly, or if they were part of a whole other villain organization... possibly...? I guess I was looking to see how Mung and especially why, he or whoever ordered Rebecca and Saw Boss, to choose that particular time (your time in this seventh fanfic) as being the best time to initiate the plan considering Mung had any point in time to choose from.
I think that was the trickiest part to ellaborate on...more so because I knew going in I wasnt going to quite reveal everything until a later book in the series, but I think I make it pretty clear in the story Mung had to specificly pick the era in which EDX was to be widely distributed to gain the maximum influence neccersary to corrupt the human race and alter the timeline. Other eras would have been before it's first real signs of development (such as when Dregg was a visitor to Earth) or too late (as the Turtles prevented the distribution in the original timeline too)

And nobody instructs Saw Boss on anything...he follows his own lead and the EDX plan was his from the outset, but I'll explain that a bit better when we get back to him in another book.
Quote:
I gotta admit I found April's dream of her "teenage self" hilarious in which you had to incorporate your current criticism of Nick TMNT into the story. Not that's bad to do that, but you felt... compelled to put it into your story. In the end though, it did helped to support April's devotion to Michelangelo.
Glad you liked it. Criticising the Nick show really resulted in some of my more experimental fanfics lately (the April trilogy and this), and I'm glad that I was able to use what I perceived as OOC behavior to further keep the April I grew up with more in-character.

Quote:
Final thoughts:
The characters were spot-on, but I think Michelangelo was a bit too intellectual at times knowing words like cerebellum, or lines like "I didn't know how to react well to the other dudes so I temporarily retreated into myself to cope." (Ch. 13)
I aim to explain all of that in the following fic, in fact it's a good pick me up for chapter two of the next one.

Quote:
But... It seems this story and the one before it ("The Flies That Came To Dinner"), are placing these anticipated villains (Baxter, Hi-Tech, and Mung) too far in the background where it seems there's an intermediary (a mad scientist or another villain) who's fighting or scheming more so against the Turtles than the actual OT villains
Hmm...that's strange of you to think that, considering the story is packed with more familiar villains threatning the Turtles and everything is more focused on their contribuitions where as the alternative players like Saw Boss and Rebecca play small (but still important) parts in pockets of the story. I'm sorry you were expecting something more high-scale from the characters you mentioned, but that's just the way the story came together and I didnt want to follow a shopping list of who to keep using beyond their neccessity to the plot.

Quote:
I guess a couple of things I'm kind of hoping for in the stories are:
1) I'm hoping that maybe there can be a bit of the brother bonding/relationship between the Turtles, similar to what you had in "Mutants and Miracles".
2) I'm feeling that Leonardo's and Raphael's individual character development are a bit stagnated ever since "Mutants and Miracles", with the exception of April talking with Leonardo about her distrust of them in during Season 8's State of Shock in "The Flies That Came To Dinner" fanfic.
I have been focusing a bit too much on Don and Mikey I admit, I'll try to give Leo and Raph something more to do in the next story.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:55 PM   #188
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Mainly because Mikey had those weird dreams that prophesised the future in one of the final episodes of the original series, second sight characters have always fascinated me and for it to happen to the most laid back of all the Turtles made for compelling development, as if Mikey is somewhat destined for greater things down the line.
Not only in season 10, but also in the Mondo Gecko episode, Michelangelo has dreams that have some weight of importance. Good observation Zarius!

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Fun Fact Time There was a conversation between the two of them in earlier drafts, but I decided Titanus wouldnt have had anything to explain to Don or Carter, who are portals for the audience, to have them learn as the heroes learn etc. Just trying to make it feel more Saturday morning where the hero learns of the diabolical plan and it's full scale.
I can see that. If there was a discussion between Titanus and Mung earlier in the story, it would have ruined the shock/surprise factor for the reader of having Titanus appear again.

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And nobody instructs Saw Boss on anything...he follows his own lead and the EDX plan was his from the outset, but I'll explain that a bit better when we get back to him in another book.
Hmmm.... that's good suspense to hear about Saw Boss' character and about him appearing again.

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Hmm...that's strange of you to think that, considering the story is packed with more familiar villains threatning the Turtles and everything is more focused on their contribuitions where as the alternative players like Saw Boss and Rebecca play small (but still important) parts in pockets of the story. I'm sorry you were expecting something more high-scale from the characters you mentioned, but that's just the way the story came together and I didnt want to follow a shopping list of who to keep using beyond their neccessity to the plot.
Well... I guess since the 7th story was dealing with the mind, that I should have expected more abstract forms of conflict. But I guess I was itching to see some form of a permanent twist on things (Mung's time traveling technology being destroyed) that would prevent Mung from re-editing the good series of events done by Donatello and Carter. (... That's why time travel is kind of a dicey topic to bring up when I read it.)

I guess I felt in these last two stories there was a lot of elaboration on the OC characters (Martin, Rebecca, Leopold; and in the sixth story, about Professor Kim Sagan) that overshadowed the main villains in a way. I'm not against OC's but I just felt that I knew more about them than say what developments transpired with the villains. Unlike with Professor Kim Sagan that interacted with the OT characters (with Irma) in the sixth story, Martin and Rebecca were farther away from the OT characters and only Martin had a small interview with April. In "Mutants and Miracles" there was more of an emphasis on the main OT villain, the Rat King came across as more engaging, and the reader saw his character transform. ...Do you kinda get what I mean?


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Sorry about that, I figured since I was packing this so full of red sky era villains, from Titanus to Dregg, to Carter etc, they just became a victim of keeping things coherant and to deliver the most straight-forward story I could possibly write within the confines of my novella paremeters. The book is already one of the longest in terms of chapter. I wanted it to be a straight-forward mission for Donatello and Carter. Flip flopping over time periods wouldnt have good for pacing purposes.
Yeah... the story did seem to be packed with a lot of Red Sky characters, but I guess as I mentioned above, I was kind of anticipating to see how the Red Sky villains transformed their personality and ambitions rather than a "shout out" or reference to them.

In seasons 9 and 10, we observed how Dregg was slipping more into insanity as his revenge against the Turtles was consuming him while Mung at last defected from Dregg in the last episode by calling Dregg "mad" and pointing out Dregg's obsession. I was sorta hoping that defection would be brought up again, and in your fanfic, maybe even Dregg taunting how he can read Mung's mind (if Mung inadvertently spilled some of the EDX on himself) as payback for deserting him in the series finale episode. That could have had some juicy implications...

I guess what I'm trying to convey is that a lot of the anticipation in reading sequel fanfics (for me to a degree), is seeing how things change and evolve from when the show ended, and as such, with the characters as well. In your fanfics so far, we've definitely seen that with Michelangelo with April and Donatello with Irma, but with the villains (Baxter, Mung, and Hi-Tech)... they seem to be getting the "short end of the stick" in terms of development (excluding Dregg since we saw his existential form change dramatically). In contrast to "Mutants and Miracles", where the reader saw the Rat King transform his viewpoint of humanity (ever so slightly) by not lumping in children with the spiteful humans.


As always, please don't misinterpret these detailed points as harsh criticism... You know that my extensive discussion on your great fanfics is a reflection of my enthusiasm for them!
Your meticulous thought process into the characters, themes, pacing, and plot development shows in your work, and thus makes your stories far exceed most TMNT fanfics out there!
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Society consistently complains about the absence of love in society, but in a self-absorbed narcissism driven society, love will not germinate. It's because the purest expression of love is self-sacrificial behavior for the benefit of others, and who would want to make those sacrifices to their own detriment?

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Old 01-14-2014, 04:10 PM   #189
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As always, please don't misinterpret these detailed points as harsh criticism.
Think nothing of the sort. I love reading every detailed point you raise and how it can sharpen the product in future stories. Had it not been for your keen eye I wouldnt have come up with most of the plot for book nine in the series and how it will be an extension of stories that you felt gave some characters the short end of the stick (especially Baxter, who I will be approaching again, this time with a greater role and major development)

I really have to go back into "Mutants and Miracles", you speak so highly of that and it clues me in more on what I need to do for returning villains in the future. I get what you mean compeltly about evolving certain characters and where they've went after the show has ended, and I should put my mind more to detailing that.

Your ideas for Mung and the like are things I hadnt considered....probably in my haste to tell the story I wanted to tell and getting the chapters out as readily as possible. You should definitely reserve those ideas and notions for your own fanfics, which I imagine will be even better mapped out and ellaborative than mine currently are
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:17 AM   #190
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Work has commenced on "A Radical Portrait of Dimension X". Hopefully I can update a bit quicker again like the early fics in this series
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:53 AM   #191
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Looked at it, Zar, and it's starting off nicely. Good for you.
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Old 01-22-2014, 12:46 PM   #192
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Thanks a bunch Bubbly.

JYX will be glad to know the original characters won't be playing quite as big a role as they've been in the last two fics and thus won't take time away from the characters one really wants to read about. I'm using them to more or less set up the quests for the established players to embark on and then have them stay reletively out of the way.
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:25 PM   #193
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Always glad to help out when needed, Zar.
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:01 PM   #194
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JYX will be glad to know the original characters won't be playing quite as big a role as they've been in the last two fics and thus won't take time away from the characters one really wants to read about. I'm using them to more or less set up the quests for the established players to embark on and then have them stay reletively out of the way.
Thanks Zarius... ...But I hope I'm helping improve toward the direction you want to go, rather than inserting any of my tastes upon you though.

The difficulty with fanfic original characters (or even new characters in an official show/story) is that they should bring in a new dynamic to the story and/or the main characters to make them interesting. It's not that I didn't like how you were extensively explaining the OCs in the past two stories ("The Flies..." & "The Dreggs...") and how they could carry through on the ideas/opinions/viewpoints you wanted to express/discuss, but it somehow seemed in vain when these characters (i.e. Martin, Rebecca, and Leopold) were elaborated on so much, but they didn't really discuss about the Turtles... much less interact with them, and appeared to be so distant from the Turtles. Almost as if they could have had their own separate story. ...Unless maybe you were planning to bring them back in your subsequent OT fanfics. I hope you got the idea of what was trying to convey in comparing the emphasis and depth of the characters (especially the OCs), in reviewing the first five OT fanfics versus the last two fanfics.

This may be a blunt way to look at OCs, but when I create an OC (especially one that is a major player in the story), I try to keep in mind (emphasis on try for me ) what an impatient reader would be thinking: Why should I be so interested in him/her? And how does it significantly affect the story?
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Old 01-22-2014, 04:37 PM   #195
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Thanks Zarius... ...But I hope I'm helping improve toward the direction you want to go, rather than inserting any of my tastes upon you though.
I think this is good practise for whenever one breaks into something like comics writing or writing for a book range. I don't feel like you're imposing your tastes on me, you're projecting your level of expectation and you have any right to do that, and I get very excited about that because it shows there's potential in me to reach higher than I aim. I see each missed oppertunity as a challenge, and I adjust accordingly to demand.

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Unless maybe you were planning to bring them back in your subsequent OT fanfics.
The plan is to go back to Rebecca and Saw Boss down the line, this is long-game storytelling we're seeing unfold here. Remember what I said months ago, things in these fics steadily build and build, and we're nearer the end now than the begining. "Radical Portrait..." is a bit of a filler I admit, but after that the next two stories will tie up all loose ends.

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This may be a blunt way to look at OCs, but when I create an OC (especially one that is a major player in the story), I try to keep in mind (emphasis on try for me ) what an impatient reader would be thinking: Why should I be so interested in him/her? And how does it significantly affect the story?
I understand that perfectly, I know paitence is a very trying thing to have, it's part of the anticipation and build of expectation, I appreciate that you don't pent yourself up with that and let me know what your expectations are and what you want. It might be my story, but sometimes it takes more than two pairs of hands to fashion a figure out of this kind of clay

...I hope I didnt conjur up ackward memories of Ghost with that analogy..
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Old 01-22-2014, 04:47 PM   #196
Refractive Reflections
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Originally Posted by ZariusTwo View Post
I understand that perfectly, I know paitence is a very trying thing to have, it's part of the anticipation and build of expectation, I appreciate that you don't pent yourself up with that and let me know what your expectations are and what you want. It might be my story, but sometimes it takes more than two pairs of hands to fashion a figure out of this kind of clay

...I hope I didnt conjur up ackward memories of Ghost with that analogy..
ROFL... Ghost.

Duh! I should have remembered its long story-telling, I guess I wasn't expecting these OCs from the seventh story to go into subsequent stories since that didn't happen before with other OCs, so that's where my discussion about the "distant" OCs came in (I thought it was the end of those OCs in the seventh story) and why I was considering some more impatient readers (maybe myself included ) who would be taking these stories in an episodic nature (like the OT). It all makes sense now.
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:48 AM   #197
ZariusTwo
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Originally Posted by JYX View Post
ROFL... Ghost.

Duh! I should have remembered its long story-telling, I guess I wasn't expecting these OCs from the seventh story to go into subsequent stories since that didn't happen before with other OCs, so that's where my discussion about the "distant" OCs came in (I thought it was the end of those OCs in the seventh story) and why I was considering some more impatient readers (maybe myself included ) who would be taking these stories in an episodic nature (like the OT). It all makes sense now.
Heh, I admit at times it does feel like everything's not quite as connected yet and this seventh story was more of a more blantant attempt at showing there will be a continuing plot thread down the line (hence "The End?" tag at the conclusion), that's mainly so the books can be enjoyed independently of each other without too much baggage. I'm saving most of that for the last two books, though some plot points may arise in book eight
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:43 AM   #198
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"A Radical Portrait of Dimension X" is complete

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Old 05-14-2014, 09:17 AM   #199
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Read and reviewed, Zar. Fantastic way to end it and to let all of your readers know that there are more shelltastic adventures to come from you about our favorite Turtles. Can't wait to read more.
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:21 PM   #200
ZariusTwo
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Thanks Bubbly. And I thought the last one I did was long, this one was even longer at 22 chapters. I'm having way too much fun inhabiting the stories I write and sometimes I don't know when to halt 'em, part of me is sometimes hesitant to do so
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