Did you like the Nick show using old characters?

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

That Ciro has been able to get any kind of long-winding arcs out of anything or anybody is pretty damn impressive.

Not really, cartoon with vast story arcs are almost the norm nowadays.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Not really, cartoon with vast story arcs are almost the norm nowadays.

That was true a few years ago, but nowadays? You have stuff like Teen Titans Go and all comedy shows.

The early/mid 2000's however were a great time for cartoons with story arcs. Justice League/Unlimited, Teen Titans 2003, X-men Evolution, Spectacular Spiderman, Avengers: EMH, Avatar, Legend of Korra, Young Justice, TMNT 2k3, etc.

The last couple of years however have been pretty terrible for action cartoons, outside of the Star Wars CG shows airing.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

That was true a few years ago, but nowadays? You have stuff like Teen Titans Go and all comedy shows.

The early/mid 2000's however were a great time for cartoons with story arcs. Justice League/Unlimited, Teen Titans 2003, X-men Evolution, Spectacular Spiderman, Avengers: EMH, Avatar, Legend of Korra, Young Justice, TMNT 2k3, etc.

The last couple of years however have been pretty terrible for action cartoons, outside of the Star Wars CG shows airing.

I said story arcs not action cartoons, you still have shows like Steven Universe, Over the Garden Wall, Gravity Falls, Star vs, Archer, and hell even South Park

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

I said story arcs not action cartoons, you still have shows like Steven Universe, Over the Garden Wall, Gravity Falls, Star vs, Archer, and hell even South Park

In other words... cheap-to-make flamination shows that have nothing to do with something like Nick TMNT at all. i.e., not shows built around toys.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

In other words... cheap-to-make flamination shows that have nothing to do with something like Nick TMNT at all. i.e., not shows built around toys.

None of the shows I mentioned with the exception of Southpark are cheap to make also I really don't see why it would be hard to make story arcs for a show thats built around toys

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Leatherhead was a human named Jess Harley in Archie, it's the only series where Leatherhead was a human instead of a normal alligator, and nobody cares. I'm willing to bet if Leatherhead was some human kid in Nick before being mutated, people would have complained.

Because the Archie series has some nostalgia value? Either that or it's so old it just isn't generating much discussion anymore.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Pretty obvious. Start with two newbies, since the new audiences won't care anyway. Sell their toys. Then build a couple seasons... then unveil... ZOMG, BEBOP AND ROCKSTEADY ARE COMING NEXT SEASON!!! The "old fans" freak out, the new fans shrug but are happy there's two new mutants. Then they sell new toys of B&R, not in competition with the first two sidekicks anymore.

And that's exactly the way it went down.

Their inclusion didn't seem to have much of an impact on the ratings or toy sales though...

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Nobody cares. It's a show that exists to sell toys. That Ciro has been able to get any kind of long-winding arcs out of anything or anybody is pretty damn impressive.

It's not impressive, not in the least. It's not even that well made for a show made to sell toys, it's barely even on par with Beast Wars and that was 20 years ago.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

In other words... cheap-to-make flamination shows that have nothing to do with something like Nick TMNT at all. i.e., not shows built around toys.

I should point out that Nick TMNT is most likely fairly cheap as well. The most expensive part about CGI shows is making the models and sets but once you have them, you can pretty much just manipulate digital puppets however you want, no need to redraw several frames manually since the computer just does that for you. It's why seasons 1 and 2 were almost exclusively set in the same handful of locations or why there has been so many episodes featuring the previously established characters in dreams/hallucinations.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

What makes you think things would have been any different had Bebop/Rocksteady not been introduced? We'd just be sitting through Rahzar/Fishface getting beat over and over again (similar to Fred Wolf Bebop/Rocksteady) because of no new characters. The fight scenes would have been stale and redundant.

Having 5 mutant henchmen freshened things up. I also find it bizarre people are acting like they didn't wait an insanely long time to introduce Bebop/Rocksteady. The way you people talk you'd forget they weren't even mutated until halfway into Season 3. And then we had Season 4's 14 episode space arc, so they weren't even seen again till the end of Season 4.

Or you know... other new and original mutants. Idk maybe a mutant gila monster and a mutant scorpion. And then of coursr tiger claw came along too.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Or you know... other new and original mutants. Idk maybe a mutant gila monster and a mutant scorpion. And then of coursr tiger claw came along too.

What's the point? They already created a ton of new mutants. Tiger Claw and Fishface were the two main ones, and created a ton of secondary or one-shot mutants.

Most of the new mutant characters Nick created didn't become popular. Snakeweed, Spiderbitez, Cockroach Terminator, Justin (that squid thing), Squirrelnoids, The Creep, Kirby-bat, the mutant car, the giant bird, Dream Beavers, etc. were all just one and done monster mutants. I did like Snakeweed myself, but I don't think he ever took off popularity wise.

Most of the popular characters in Nick, again besides Tiger Claw/Fishface, were just the reimaginings of old characters. I think the Rockwell monkey is the only other one that really stands out, because a psychic monkey is cool.

[TigerClaw]

I like that they brought Mona Lisa on the show for a couple of episodes, Even though its not quite the version I'm used to knowing.

[CyberCubed]

You'll never see the original version again, even if another series uses her and she's a mutant again. Fred Wolf versions of the characters can never be duplicated in any other series. That's why every version of Bebop/Rocksteady have been different, same for anyone else.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

You'll never see the original version again, even if another series uses her and she's a mutant again. Fred Wolf versions of the characters can never be duplicated in any other series. That's why every version of Bebop/Rocksteady have been different, same for anyone else.

I'm pretty sure the IDW Bebop and Rocksteady are pretty damn close to the FW version.

[Andrew NDB]

I wonder what the next Bebop and Rocksteady origin story will be? I can't wait.

[TigerClaw]

What I'm curious about is what IDW is doing with Jagwar, Who was male in the Archie comics, and is gonna be female in the IDW comics.

IDW recently brought back Dreadmon in an issue of TMNT Universe.

This being the final season, the Nickelodeon series had some miss opportunities by not bringing in characters like Dreadmon or Jagwar into the show.

Then again, we don't know the full extend of what this final season will bring, so here's hoping.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I wonder what the next Bebop and Rocksteady origin story will be? I can't wait.

You know, the sad thing is that they more or less always have the same origin. They're never aliens, demons or even zoo animals, they're always human criminals mutated for the Foot. The Nick version came the closest to being something different, and that just boiled down to accents and a few weapons.

I honestly don't get what's so sacred about the mutated criminal origin that nobody really tried anything else?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by neatoman

You know, the sad thing is that they more or less always have the same origin. They're never aliens, demons or even zoo animals, they're always human criminals mutated for the Foot. The Nick version came the closest to being something different, and that just boiled down to accents and a few weapons.

I honestly don't get what's so sacred about the mutated criminal origin that nobody really tried anything else?

They shouldn't be anything else. Bebop and Rocksteady aren't anything more than normal human criminals who become mutants and work for Shredder. You might as well use different characters entirely if you change them from that.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

You might as well use different characters entirely if you change them from that.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

What's the point? They already created a ton of new mutants. Tiger Claw and Fishface were the two main ones, and created a ton of secondary or one-shot mutants.

Most of the new mutant characters Nick created didn't become popular. Snakeweed, Spiderbitez, Cockroach Terminator, Justin (that squid thing), Squirrelnoids, The Creep, Kirby-bat, the mutant car, the giant bird, Dream Beavers, etc. were all just one and done monster mutants. I did like Snakeweed myself, but I don't think he ever took off popularity wise.

Most of the popular characters in Nick, again besides Tiger Claw/Fishface, were just the reimaginings of old characters. I think the Rockwell monkey is the only other one that really stands out, because a psychic monkey is cool.

Snakeweed, Spider Bytes and the rest weren't Shredder's minions though. If fishface or tigetclaw were random one off mutants they also would have been forgettable.

[CyberCubed]

I admit, I'm bias about Bebop/Rocksteady's origins. Remember early on when people actually thought two of those random Purple Dragon guys would become Bebop and Rocksteady?

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Snakeweed, Spider Bytes and the rest weren't Shredder's minions though. If fishface or tigetclaw were random one off mutants they also would have been forgettable.

Well, isn't that the point? Tiger Claw and Fishface were major characters. The others were one-off side mutants for filler episodes. I thought this was common sense? Of course Shredder's henchmen who are in the most episodes and get the most screentime would stand out more.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I admit, I'm bias about Bebop/Rocksteady's origins. Remember early on when people actually thought two of those random Purple Dragon guys would become Bebop and Rocksteady?



Well, isn't that the point? Tiger Claw and Fishface were major characters. The others were one-off side mutants for filler episodes. I thought this was common sense? Of course Shredder's henchmen who are in the most episodes and get the most screentime would stand out more.

That's my point exactly. Had Snakeweed for example, have been Shredder's minion and appeared more often, he wouldn't have been as forgettable. Like, duh.

[Vegita-San]

I have no problem with one off mutants.

The Old Show had them all the time.

What I DO have a problem with, is this show trying to make it seem grand and epic. You can't have one off mutants, and then bring them back randomly as you remember them and expect viewers to care. it doesn't work like that.

And that is most obvious with Fish Face. He was pretty darn cool in his human form. he got less cool as he got mutated, because the turtles usually don't have many water adventures to use him in. and the writer apparently noticed that.

that's why he started appearing less and less. add to that, bradford having a more noticeably famous voice actor, and i guess he got priority for guest appearances..