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Old 06-02-2018, 03:54 PM   #21
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A lot of people don't truly care about the truth or about justice, so I'm not surprised things like this happen. It's quite serious and sad that the president of what I believe to be an organisation that tried to combat racism is pulling the classical race card like this. That's one gonna make actual victims not look credible in the future.

Also, don't turn this into a "USA is number 1" versus "America sucks!" thread, guys, please
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Old 06-03-2018, 01:53 PM   #22
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You know.....

-The U.S is the Richest Country
We also have the largest debt and have one of the worst income inequality compared to other developed nations.
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-Has one of the easiest paths to citizenship
I found like 9 countries that have easier paths to citizenship.
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-Have a 100% volunteer military
Umm have you heard of something called the "draft" also our military is overbudget.
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-Have more Freedom than most countries.
Yet we have the most incarcerated per captia
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-Have a large "welfare net"
There are like 10 other countries with better welfare plans than ours

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-Retirement and healthcare plans for our citizens unlike most countries.
We are actually ranked 13 in our retirement plan compared to other developed countries and don't get me started on our healthcare plan.

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I could keep going on and on, but yea....... we definitely are not one of the most blessed/best nations to live in on earth
You know what compared to most nations we are but there is a **** ton of things we can improve on
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Old 06-03-2018, 02:28 PM   #23
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No statutory minimum vacation time
No statutory maternity leave (only three other democratic countries do not have this!)
You get seriously ill, you are probably in debt for the rest of your life
The gap between rich and poor is arguably the widest of any democratic nation
- People shouldn't get paid for NOT working. If one person takes off of work, others have to work harder to cover for them. Everyone loses money because one guy wants to take his family to DisneyLand.

People used to have to SAVE if they one day wanted to have nice things or take a trip. Now it's looked at as a right... because people get tired? Burnt out? Boo-hoo.

- Having kids is a choice, and a bad one. Rampant population growth is going to leave most of the planet homeless and starving in less than a century... but sure, have more kids. But either way, it's a CHOICE, and again, when a woman CHOOSES to get knocked up and take time off from work, the company loses money all the way around. And the woman whines, "I deserve to be paid for NOT working! Support my foolish, selfish choices! Or else... I might have less money!" Tough sh*t. Next time put your diaphragm in, dummy. I or anyone else shouldn't have to sacrifice a single goddamn thing to support your ignorant, selfish decision to "have a family".

- Many people who end up impoverished from health problems weren't taking care of themselves in the first place - which is why many companies now provide incentives to employees who don't smoke, join a gym, etc. etc. People who make their bed through various poor lifestyle choices deserve to lie in it and weep. Let the three-pack-a-day smoker pay for their new lung, and if they can't, let 'em rot. Not at all my concern.

Sure, sometimes people get sick for no reason, and that sucks, but again, you're supposed to save and plan ahead for things, and people don't anymore. They "Need" the big flatscreen, they "need" a nicer place to live, so they simply "can't" whittle money aside for things like health care. I'm as guilty as anyone, but I admit it. I don't save like I should, but I don't blame other people for that, I just own up to the fact that I care more about having nice things and I spend money frivolously, because I've never planned to live very long anyway and would rather have fun while I'm alive. So if I get a fatal disease I'll probably die from it. Oh well. At least the bills will be someone else's problem!

Plus, aren't there things where people can go online and mooch for money now? GoFundMe and things like that? I'm forever seeing people online doing that when they get sick. So that's a thing.

- The gap between rich and poor is *technically* the widest, but that fails to take into account that the U.S. has, by far, more millionaires in it than any other country, AND, that even the poorest person in America has a much higher quality of life than they would anywhere else in the world. Because "poor" means vastly different things depending on where you live, and the American "poor person" of today has a better quality of life than most "rich Americans" did 100 years ago, they simply have different priorities. 100 years ago, poor people saved to better their station in life; today, poor people piss money away to have nicer things because "Screw it, I'm poor and 'can't' save anyway, may as well enjoy myself."

Obviously, lots of countries have a MUCH smaller Rich-To-Poor gap... like North Korea. Because everyone there is dirt-poor except for ONE guy. Should THAT be the standard we chase after? It's an economic fact: The countries with the smallest Rich-To-Poor gap are overwhelmingly POOR. The American gap is only so wide because so many people are rich! HOW can that be an "injustice"? Any random person, from any background, of any color in the rainbow, has the BEST chance in the world to become a millionaire, or even a billionaire, if they live in the U.S. They also have the best chance to STAY rich, on account of our tax policies which don't punish someone for actually succeeding in life, just because other people don't have the same.

Sounds like a great deal, to me.
------------------------------

The thing is, there's two schools of thought on how to generate "Income Equality":
1: Take money from the Rich People and give it to the Poor People, so everyone is "equal".
2. Teach Poor People how to turn themselves into Rich People.

Option 1 has been tried countless times throughout history and never truly works. You end up with a nation of, essentially, "functionally poor" people, dependent on government hand-outs.

Option 2 works SO well, that many, MANY people have gotten excessively rich simply by sharing "How To Get Rich" techniques, which is pretty funny in itself. Problem is, economic success generally requires sacrifice, hard work, long hours, little leisure time, competent saving and investment practices, and not worrying about things like "vacations" or "a family" until you can comfortably afford them. And people nowadays are generally piss-poor at delaying gratification. They want what they want because someone else has it, and that's all they care about. Not, "How did that person become so successful?" Just, "It isn't fair that they have more than I do." Well, it's totally fair, they have more because they made better life choices.
------------------------

I say all this as someone who's been up and down, financially, many times. Sympathy and Empathy are piss-poor things to base economic policy on, and people who work hard deserve more than people who don't, "can't", or won't. The American system provides more opportunities than anywhere else in the world to go from "Zero-To-Hero" and people do it every day. I have no respect for people looking for hand-outs or the government to "provide" for them; it's weak, lazy, and selfish.

Our way isn't "perfect", but it's still better than any other system, as seen by the many American people who have managed to succeed. If a person truly doesn't believe that... your priorities are screwed up and I can't help you. "I want" doesn't equate with "I deserve". If you earn something, you deserve it.

I'm never shocked when people with a low opinion of America come to it by looking at how our worst factors are represented. If you judge every country by their worst, then everyplace sucks, and I'm pretty sure that's not true. Judge anyplace by their best... well, our best is The Best Anywhere, indisputably.

We just expect people to work a little harder for the perks. I think it's become part of the cultural DNA that you only deserve what you truly earn, and I genuinely have no problem with that.

As for "room for improvement", sure, but to think we're actually significantly "worse" than anywhere else is pure fantasy. The people complaining the most aren't doing enough to improve their station, the ones who are have very few complaints. That tells me all I need to know.
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Old 06-03-2018, 04:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by PApagreg View Post
We also have the largest debt and have one of the worst income inequality compared to other developed nations.

I found like 9 countries that have easier paths to citizenship.

Umm have you heard of something called the "draft" also our military is overbudget.

Yet we have the most incarcerated per captia

There are like 10 other countries with better welfare plans than ours


We are actually ranked 13 in our retirement plan compared to other developed countries and don't get me started on our healthcare plan.



You know what compared to most nations we are but there is a **** ton of things we can improve on
I agree we can always improve as a nation and we should always strive to. But my point is that we live in a very blessed nation and we are arguably the best nation to live in.
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Old 06-03-2018, 04:34 PM   #25
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No, no, that's not how it's done. You have to stretch your provably-correct point over 28 paragraphs so everyone hates you even if they agree with you.
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Old 06-03-2018, 04:49 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Leo656 View Post
- People shouldn't get paid for NOT working. If one person takes off of work, others have to work harder to cover for them. Everyone loses money because one guy wants to take his family to DisneyLand.

People used to have to SAVE if they one day wanted to have nice things or take a trip. Now it's looked at as a right... because people get tired? Burnt out? Boo-hoo.


- Having kids is a choice, and a bad one. Rampant population growth is going to leave most of the planet homeless and starving in less than a century... but sure, have more kids. But either way, it's a CHOICE, and again, when a woman CHOOSES to get knocked up and take time off from work, the company loses money all the way around. And the woman whines, "I deserve to be paid for NOT working! Support my foolish, selfish choices! Or else... I might have less money!" Tough sh*t. Next time put your diaphragm in, dummy. I or anyone else shouldn't have to sacrifice a single goddamn thing to support your ignorant, selfish decision to "have a family".
I just love this right here just because people use to get raw deals in the past it automatically means we have to suck it up and not improve the standard our of living. Did you know modern labour laws weren't a thing until 1935-1975 so going by your logic those people should have "suck it up" just because we can't have progress.

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- Many people who end up impoverished from health problems weren't taking care of themselves in the first place - which is why many companies now provide incentives to employees who don't smoke, join a gym, etc. etc. People who make their bed through various poor lifestyle choices deserve to lie in it and weep. Let the three-pack-a-day smoker pay for their new lung, and if they can't, let 'em rot. Not at all my concern.

Sure, sometimes people get sick for no reason, and that sucks, but again, you're supposed to save and plan ahead for things, and people don't anymore. They "Need" the big flatscreen, they "need" a nicer place to live, so they simply "can't" whittle money aside for things like health care. I'm as guilty as anyone, but I admit it. I don't save like I should, but I don't blame other people for that, I just own up to the fact that I care more about having nice things and I spend money frivolously, because I've never planned to live very long anyway and would rather have fun while I'm alive. So if I get a fatal disease I'll probably die from it. Oh well. At least the bills will be someone else's problem!

Plus, aren't there things where people can go online and mooch for money now? GoFundMe and things like that? I'm forever seeing people online doing that when they get sick. So that's a thing.
Do you know how expensive medical bills are in this country it costs a hell of a lot more than a new TV also its not just hospital bills, prescriptions are also very expensive. The Gofundme example pretty much shows how bad the American health system is if people have to resort to Gofundme.

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- The gap between rich and poor is *technically* the widest, but that fails to take into account that the U.S. has, by far, more millionaires in it than any other country, AND, that even the poorest person in America has a much higher quality of life than they would anywhere else in the world. Because "poor" means vastly different things depending on where you live, and the American "poor person" of today has a better quality of life than most "rich Americans" did 100 years ago, they simply have different priorities. 100 years ago, poor people saved to better their station in life; today, poor people piss money away to have nicer things because "Screw it, I'm poor and 'can't' save anyway, may as well enjoy myself."

Obviously, lots of countries have a MUCH smaller Rich-To-Poor gap... like North Korea. Because everyone there is dirt-poor except for ONE guy. Should THAT be the standard we chase after? It's an economic fact: The countries with the smallest Rich-To-Poor gap are overwhelmingly POOR.
There are literally tons of developed countries with better income equality than us also the number of millionaires isn't that big of a factor to income inequality hell Switzerland has more millionares per captia and it still has better income equality compared to the United States http://www.businessinsider.com/ranke...e-world-2015-7.


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The American gap is only so wide because so many people are rich! HOW can that be an "injustice"? Any random person, from any background, of any color in the rainbow, has the BEST chance in the world to become a millionaire, or even a billionaire, if they live in the U.S. They also have the best chance to STAY rich, on account of our tax policies which don't punish someone for actually succeeding in life, just because other people don't have the same.Sounds like a great deal, to me.
You do know not everyone who is a millionaire or billionaire is self made right sometimes they come from old money also those people make up less than 7 percent of the population which means most people aren't really living well in the US. Also you know why rich people tend to stay rich in the United States, its because of our crappy tax policy so while the rich stays rich the poor stays poor so YAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY to the Status Quo
The thing is, there's two schools of thought on how to generate "Income Equality":
1: Take money from the Rich People and give it to the Poor People, so everyone is "equal".
2. Teach Poor People how to turn themselves into Rich People.

Quote:
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Option 1 has been tried countless times throughout history and never truly works. You end up with a nation of, essentially, "functionally poor" people, dependent on government hand-outs.

Option 2 works SO well, that many, MANY people have gotten excessively rich simply by sharing "How To Get Rich" techniques, which is pretty funny in itself. Problem is, economic success generally requires sacrifice, hard work, long hours, little leisure time, competent saving and investment practices, and not worrying about things like "vacations" or "a family" until you can comfortably afford them. And people nowadays are generally piss-poor at delaying gratification. They want what they want because someone else has it, and that's all they care about. Not, "How did that person become so successful?" Just, "It isn't fair that they have more than I do." Well, it's totally fair, they have more because they made better life choices..
Or(and be prepared this may blow your mind) maybe we can have better healthcare standards for our country so people won't spend a **** ton on medicine or medical bills,raise our minimum wage so more people can afford necessities and maybe a few luxuries(which yes is good for the economy.), and maybe make sure colleges have less tuition rates.

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-I say all this as someone who's been up and down, financially, many times. Sympathy and Empathy are piss-poor things to base economic policy on, and people who work hard deserve more than people who don't, "can't", or won't. The American system provides more opportunities than anywhere else in the world to go from "Zero-To-Hero" and people do it every day. I have no respect for people looking for hand-outs or the government to "provide" for them; it's weak, lazy, and selfish.
Well guess what your respect isn't going to feed, heal, or shelter anyone so your respect means nothing

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Our way isn't "perfect", but it's still better than any other system, as seen by the many American people who have managed to succeed. If a person truly doesn't believe that... your priorities are screwed up and I can't help you. "I want" doesn't equate with "I deserve". If you earn something, you deserve it.
For every person who manage to succeed there are hundreds of thousands of people who either stay in the status quo or get off worse. Like why are you so against improving the standard of living for other people what just because you had to be miserable while being poor it automatically means people have to be miserable too. Also again

[QUOTE=Leo656;1762859]I'm never shocked when people with a low opinion of America come to it by looking at how our worst factors are represented. If you judge every country by their worst, then everyplace sucks, and I'm pretty sure that's not true. Judge anyplace by their best... well, our best is The Best Anywhere, indisputably.

Its not really judging America by its worse but judging how the average citizen lives compared to other developed nations which is abysmal for all of our "greatness" as a country how come the daily lives of our own countrymen is worse compared to other developed nations. How come those who are less great than else still treat their own people better than we do.

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We just expect people to work a little harder for the perks. I think it's become part of the cultural DNA that you only deserve what you truly earn, and I genuinely have no problem with that.
Paying expensive prescription pills and medical bills out the ass, having a mediocre public schooling plan, having one the worst tuition rates and student debt isn't really "work a little harder".
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As for "room for improvement", sure, but to think we're actually significantly "worse" than anywhere else is pure fantasy. The people complaining the most aren't doing enough to improve their station, the ones who are have very few complaints. That tells me all I need to know.
What about people like Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates who advocated for universal healthcare those people improve their station and they still think the standard of living in America needs to improve.
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Old 06-03-2018, 05:07 PM   #27
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INCONVENIENT TRUTHS:

- I'm not interested in "feeding" or "sheltering" anyone. My only responsibility is to myself, and yours is to you. I owe you nothing, and you owe me nothing. I do not expect to provide for you, nor do I want or expect you to provide for me. "So there."

- "Compassion" and "sympathy" are horrible things to base a country's economic policy on.

- Doing what's best for "everyone" collectively means that not every individual is going to have a terrific standard of living.

- It's up to the individual to take the necessary steps to improve their station, if they're not satisfied with it.

- Nobody but You owes You a living.

- Happiness and comfort are not guarantees, nor a God-given right.

- Anyone who said "Life is supposed to be fair" was either lying, mistaken, or bleeding from the ass.
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Old 06-03-2018, 05:13 PM   #28
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Old 06-03-2018, 05:16 PM   #29
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I can't even begin to imagine what that sounds like.

I keep trying to, but I swear it skews far too "Dutch".
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Old 06-04-2018, 04:50 AM   #30
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SNIP
Because keeping the full quote would be TOO long...

Not being to cover one person being away is bad business management then, plain and simple. You are either employing too few people or cannot adapt to situations where someone may not be around. I guess this is why everyone in the US also goes into work when ill, because they get harassed for being off due to not being around and everyone covering them, and then they infect everyone else around them in the process

And yes, this is from knowing many people in the US, including ex-girlfriends, and hearing an awful lot of stories about "working conditions" there. On the whole, it really does sound the workforces are more unhappy and burnt out as a result. A happier workforce is more likely to be productive, as in they want the company to succeed, be more willing to put in more hours without having to be ordered to do so, and less likely to get up to sketchy crap that involves flouting the system/rules/stealing things. Strangely enough, I've worked for US companies with UK bases, and their US practices are a lot closer to European standards as a result, meaning... quelle surprise, a more beneficial workplace to flourish within.

Maternity leave... yeah, this is a touchy subject for some people. But if pretty much every country in the world has it but the US... what are we doing right, or what can the US not grasp about it? But without dropping the ten foot barge pole on this matter, then not really going into it, was just noting the above fact about its presence worldwide.

As for health issues, try saving for medical costs that may end up in debts of tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's the reality. You know what else is a reality? A friend of mine died a few years ago because he couldn't afford the hundreds needed to go see a doctor about a condition he thought he had. A few months later he died in his sleep due to it.

Saving is NOT a reality for many people sadly, and yes while I agree some people do spend money frivolously on shiny things such as TVs and phones, that's out of the reach for so many others anyhow. Those people. They spend all their money on housing, transport, food and heating. And yes, I also agree that people who are looking for handouts without attempting to help themselves first should be looked down on.

"My only responsibility is to myself"

Frankly is a horrible attitude. But I don't thus mean you have to attempt to right all of the world's wrongs in the process. It does explain why SO many Americans are completely against Obamacare because they see it as helping people who are not them. Tough luck to anyone getting ill when it wasn't their fault and can't afford it.

You know what the funny thing is though? The NHS in the UK is actually ranked above the American healthcare system in all areas except cancer survival (I'll admit, we are a bit laggy there, and my other half who works in that area has wanted it better for a decade). So money isn't everything, except when the costs in the US are ludicrously high compared to every other country in the world because it's barely regulated.

But seeing as I've visited the US a lot, met a lot of people there, and in general, they are friendly, inviting, helpful and honest... then they can't all be abiding by the self responsibility mantra, they do think of other people in their lives and doing something about making lives of other people better, in the small ways that they are able to.
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Old 06-04-2018, 05:24 AM   #31
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- People shouldn't get paid for NOT working. If one person takes off of work, others have to work harder to cover for them. Everyone loses money because one guy wants to take his family to DisneyLand.

People used to have to SAVE if they one day wanted to have nice things or take a trip. Now it's looked at as a right... because people get tired? Burnt out? Boo-hoo.
Depends on the job. The type of job I have, paid vacation is welcomed because if you don't rest, then you can't perform your best on the job, which actually happened to me on the last one. I had to call out sick at times for my mental health. Long hours and no proper rest isn't a good thing. Also, vacation days are generally planned. Random sick days aren't and would seem like more of a problem than someone who put in for time off weeks or months ahead of time so that the company can prepare for it.
Quote:
- Many people who end up impoverished from health problems weren't taking care of themselves in the first place - which is why many companies now provide incentives to employees who don't smoke, join a gym, etc. etc. People who make their bed through various poor lifestyle choices deserve to lie in it and weep. Let the three-pack-a-day smoker pay for their new lung, and if they can't, let 'em rot. Not at all my concern
What about emergencies? I couldn't get health insurance before moving to Japan because of my being diabetic. Something I probably would've gotten anyway because it runs on both sides of my family (father and his mother and both my maternal grandparents). I also have PCOS, something else I don't have much control over. Pre-existing conditions. I had to be hospitalized 9 years ago for having a pulmonary embolism...something I had no idea I had or was susceptible to. I had to file bankruptcy after that for a one-week visit (which I found out later was wrong of them). NO ONE should have to file bankruptcy for a health issue.

Last edited by ssjup81; 06-04-2018 at 05:34 AM.
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Old 06-04-2018, 11:12 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo656 View Post
INCONVENIENT TRUTHS:

- I'm not interested in "feeding" or "sheltering" anyone. My only responsibility is to myself, and yours is to you. I owe you nothing, and you owe me nothing. I do not expect to provide for you, nor do I want or expect you to provide for me. "So there."

- "Compassion" and "sympathy" are horrible things to base a country's economic policy on.

- Doing what's best for "everyone" collectively means that not every individual is going to have a terrific standard of living.

- It's up to the individual to take the necessary steps to improve their station, if they're not satisfied with it.

- Nobody but You owes You a living.

- Happiness and comfort are not guarantees, nor a God-given right.

- Anyone who said "Life is supposed to be fair" was either lying, mistaken, or bleeding from the ass.
While I find this ideas rather cannibalistic, for the lack of better term, I can say that I am agree with them.

Just because you exist no-one owns you anything and no-one owns you happiness and prosperity.

If you want to prosper and become rich, you should work. Sitting on your ass and complaining that "there is no justice" is hilariously impotent and useless. "Justice" is a human made concept, a very abstract at that. There is no justice in nature and there is no justice in society, because, all people are different.

Concept of the absolutely just society is an utopia, which humanity will never achieve, since it will require to eliminate our differences, the idea that some of the progressives don't understand.

And yes, some people are born into rich families and have everything they want. But it's not injustice. It's chaos. A blind fate. You might as well complain that you've been born with some speech problems, while most of the people don't have them. Does it mean that we should deny them right to speak normally or you just should make a piece with your ****** deal?
I think, ideological maturity in some cases, is decided whether you are capable to understand it.
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Old 06-20-2018, 10:59 AM   #33
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I wasn't sure where else to post this one, so mods, feel free to delete. hoping this post isn't a mistake of arguments in the waiting, but this is an honest question i was wondering about lately, so call me stupid if you must .

I saw an image elsewhere where wanda sykes had compared trump to an ape. an orangatang in this case. yet, she quit because Rosanne made an ape comment about a black american. Why is it OK to do it one way, but not another? Didn't we all decend from Apes?

When did comparing someone to an ape become a race thing? I always thought it was a general insult thing. mostly used at dumb ass guys like jocks. It's not a nice comparison no matter WHO you make it too. maybe because I wasn't brought up to think in racist insulting terms, I never saw it as a race thing....but it was my understanding that it only became a race thing in this hyper sensitized SJW world where people are just looking for insults claiming racism.

am I off the mark on this one as usual? or is there something too this?
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:05 AM   #34
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The answer this question lies in history that predates 1985..
White people in America have been referring to black people in America as Savage, and less than human, since they started shipping them over here as slaves. Black people in America were considered 3/5 of a person at one point.

So therein lies the difference, And why there is a double standard at play.
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:10 PM   #35
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Roseanne is white and insulted someone with African ancestry with an insult that has racial tones.

Seeing how both Roseanne and Valerie Jarrett are women. It might have been more acceptable if Roseanne’s insult surrounded womanhood. Or they both are wealthy. So an insult surrounding money/class may have also been more acceptable.

Society does approve of some insults more than others. Fact.
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