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Old 02-09-2019, 06:44 AM   #161
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Whoever said anything about any of that?

If people want to preorder tickets 15 months in advance based on a 30-second teaser and a handjob, then that proves no "conspiracy" is necessary.

Nobody said anything about that. Empty promises and misdirection? Sure, but as Andrew pointed out, that's not a conspiracy, that's The Business.

Any guy can brag often and loud about having a 10-inch penis, "And just WAIT until you see it!", and women everywhere have a choice: swoon and throw themselves at his feet based on what he SAYS, or wait until they're in bed with him and find out for sure. Either way, no sense having an orgasm based on Promises.

Remember: Every guy is at least 10 inches, according to Them. In reality? Eh.
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Old 02-09-2019, 06:59 AM   #162
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Well the way you made it sound about them ďworkingĒ us.

If it were the same people, director etc. I would agree about not getting excited too early but again itís a different team. But you seem to think the studio executives actually run everything in secret.

Wasnít itís different for Eastman and the PD movies? He doesnít own the turtles anymore (does he at all?) so itís not his fault they turned out poorly. He didnít have a hand in making them.
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Old 02-09-2019, 07:12 AM   #163
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But he did choose to lie, often and loud, in exchange for a paycheck. You're right, he had no say in anything. So he really should have kept his mouth shut. But they knew that they needed "hardcore" fans to show up if the movies were to succeed, so they used him to work everyone. I saw right through it, but other people willingly believed all the obvious lies about "hardcore ninja action" and whatnot. They were CLEARLY lies, but some people chose to believe. "Kevin loves us! He's one of us! He wouldn't lie to us! Not for MONEY!"

And that's what I mean about them "working" you. A "work" is a Con, but it doesn't have to mean a total lie. It ultimately just means that they know exactly how to get people to react the way they want. They know what to say, what you wanna see, etc. I read that press release, I see nothing but buzzwords and hype. Nothing of substance. Nothing to solidify an opinion on, certainly. But other people see "proof" that they've learned a lesson and can't possibly fail to make a good movie this time. But how do we know? "Well, they SAID..."

They said what they know you and other people want to hear. And that's the job. Which is why it is indeed called "a work". Again, that doesn't mean that they have nothing, or that the product can't or won't be good. It just means, it's their job to manipulate people into being excited - whether or not there's anything YET to be excited about - and people's response proves that they do indeed know how to do it.

So I will praise them for being good at generating a response. I won't praise them for a movie that 1. Doesn't exist yet, and 2. Might not be good.

If and When. If, and When.
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Old 02-09-2019, 07:26 AM   #164
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I still think this situation is different. Jason Reitman is not there just to generate hype. He willingly signed up to do it.

As for the press release and teaser I would not call it “a work”. I mean are they not supposed to give out the information? Every movie has to generate attention. I can only believe it for now because they officially announced it.

The way you describe it though is just...I know, you’re a cynic
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Old 02-09-2019, 07:31 AM   #165
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Because NOT being a cynic makes no practical sense. It's literally begging for disappointment, over and over again. "Optimists" spend their entire lives bent over, bleeding from the ass and wondering how it all went wrong.

"We'll see" means exactly that. We haven't seen anything yet to base any substantial opinions on. If it looks good, I will celebrate, and if it's a kids movie, I stay home. Very simple.

All we know is, "something" is coming out in 15 months, give or take. I don't plan more than 15 minutes ahead, ever. This won't be any exception.
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Old 02-09-2019, 07:49 AM   #166
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Ok some of your descriptions are funny but I do think that mentality is pretty over the top.

Itís not about wishful thinking...more logical assessments and giving the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 02-09-2019, 08:05 AM   #167
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On what purpose does anybody DESERVE benefit of the doubt? Ever?

Life Lessons By Which To Stay Happy and Avoid Disappointment:

- Hope for the Best
- Prepare for/Expect the Worst
- Judge ALL things and people on their Performance and not their Potential

Do that, and life is pretty simple. I see no difference between "giving someone the benefit of the doubt", and awarding points for things that haven't been achieved yet.

People shouldn't "give benefit of the doubt", they should remain neutral and objective about all things. "Well, they haven't done anything wrong yet!" True story. But they haven't done anything "right" yet, either. No room for scorn, but certainly no room for praise. Praise for what, promises?

There's nothing "logical" about giving people applause for what they SAY they're going to do. Hold the applause until after they've earned it. THAT is a "logical" position, and it really shouldn't need to be defended.
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:58 AM   #168
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I agree with those 3 but it seems your default is to assume things/people are naturally disingenuous.

For me it’s give a fair shake before determining something...benefit of the doubt. Because why not? I think you have to give a little bit of trust otherwise why pick anybody to do anything?

Ya you could say I’m more an Optimist but like I said it’s not about “power of positivity”. It’s knowing that everything (generally speaking of course) has just as much a chance to turn out good as it does bad.

That and being cynical seems like a needlessly stressful way of looking at things. That’s just me though.
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:38 AM   #169
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That and being cynical seems like a needlessly stressful way of looking at things. Thatís just me though.
It is indeed just you.

The thousands upon thousands of items on my DVD shelf (and my video game shelf, for that matter) would seem to thoroughly debunk the idea that I simply "hate everything", or whatever the narrative is around this sh*thole, but you know how people love projecting their own standards onto others.

Being selective, having personal standards, and taking a "wait-and-see" approach to things has nothing to with being "negative" or "being stressed out."

I get stressed out when my back goes out and I can't go to work. Or my neck goes out and I can't feel my hands. Those are "stress" situations. I DON'T get stressed out about movies and cartoons because they're ultimately not important. I simply explain why I have my own opinion, and why it doesn't HAVE to be Your Opinion. Or anyone else's opinion.

What we ultimately have here, is a situation of you (or anyone) saying, "Why can't YOU be as excited as ME about this thing or that thing?" And I've already explained it: Because I don't do jumping jacks for every single announcement, I wait until I have a product in my hand (or in front of my eyes) before I judge it. And sometimes not even then. With movies, particularly, it usually takes about three times before I have a "final" opinion (although once for "Answer the Call" was more than enough).

It's amazing how in this place, people insist "everyone can have their own opinion", when that simply isn't true. You want me to feel the way you do, and I don't. I'm sorry it bothers you - or anyone - that I refuse to get excited about a movie that DOESN'T EXIST YET.

Again, my DVD/games/misc. collection most likely dwarfs yours, and I don't say that as a shot at you. I say it as evidence that, despite being selective and having my own reasons for Why and When I decide to show enthusiasm about something, I probably like more things than I don't. If I was a "cynic who hated everything", I wouldn't be drowning in media and spending thousands of dollars on entertainment product. That's just math, buddy.

If the fact I wanna see something tangible before getting excited bothers you so much, then I'm simply not the one with the problem. Let Other People Have Opinions.

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Your way is just a mature way to look at life.
Constant immature cynicism leads to nothing, but to feeling like **** all the time.
Once again, speak for yourself and ONLY yourself. There's nothing "mature" about grabbing one's dick for every single teaser trailer.
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:55 AM   #170
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I honestly like both Leo656 and Sumac... I refuse to enter into any opinions here. You guys are like oil and vinegar. If I had brothers (I don't, only child) it would be like watching them fight. Interesting to watch yet I don't want to see either one go away.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:07 AM   #171
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Don't poke the bear, brother.

Me and Wildcat are/were having a civil conversation, even if we don't agree on when it's "appropriate" to start doing a jig about an upcoming film. We don't have to agree. He can be excited right now all he wants, as long as I'm allowed to wait and see for myself whether this movie - or any movie - deserves my attention. I'm allegedly still allowed to have my own opinion, and to explain why I feel that way. "Allegedly".

Anyone who wants to interject themselves into that just to try and start another argument - when they're not even involved in the conversation - is eventually going to wish they'd stayed out of it. Especially if they've already been given Temp Bans and multiple verbal warnings.

Machias told me several months ago exactly how she wants me to handle these situations, and I'm abiding by her wishes. Eventually, the situation will be resolved. Nobody has to like it; they're not "the boss". Unlike some people here, I do what the Mods say, especially when it's a "direct order" from on high.

Now, if we're collectively going to talk about the movie, instead of making insinuations about each others' personal taste, that's great. I've got no problem with Wildcat at this point, and as far as I can tell he doesn't have much problem with me, so it would be great if our civil difference of opinion can REMAIN civil, without other people getting involved saying how either one of us is "supposed" to think, feel, or act.

I shouldn't have to defend my opinion. Compared to most people here, I'm always far more enthusiastic about these things when I see them. I watch how people here post about movies and things; lots of times, there's tons of whining about things not living up to expectations. Well, maybe in that case, people should curb their enthusiasm until they've got the final product in front of them. That's all I've been saying. Grand Expectations lead to Grand Disappointment. And I promise you, I'm disappointed FAR less often than any of you people seem to be. I generally think most things are Just Fine, I simply wait until I see them in full before I commit to them. That should be Allowed.

Asking too much, I know. But it would be nice.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:15 AM   #172
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I've actually not been venturing any opinions lately about this because you're owning the thread. And I don't agree with any of what you've been saying about this movie.

But since we're here, it's 1 AM, and we're both probably drunk...

#1: It's happening. Stop saying it's not.

#2: The OG Ghostbusters will absolutely be involved. Hudson did a work and you know it.

#3: Yes, kid actors can work. I do work in film and it's said, the two things you don't want to work with are "children and animals." And it's true. But it can. "It" cast was great. "Stranger Things" cast was great. It's hard but it can work. And we have no idea what % of screentime is even going to the kids, and we still don't even know if these kids are going to be 12 or if they're going to be 17. Or even officially if there is kids as mains in any capacity.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:20 AM   #173
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Again, I'd much rather NOT have to lock threads and delete posts because certain individuals are passive aggressive.

This is fair warning: the current thread of discussion is fine, even if a bit heated. But let's lay off the "immature" pot shots.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:27 AM   #174
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No I don’t have any problem with anybody really. Leo656 actually gives genuine responses. Other posts (here and elsewhere) are obviously just for attention or to rile things up. I’ve always been able to easily ignore that stuff.

@Leo656, Not to drag this specific discussion on but...I did not mean you literally stressed over movies and such. I meant a cynical mindset just seems like harsh view to have towards things.

The last thing I’ll say is I honestly do not expect others to share the same opinion or level of excitement. I just think the level of scrutiny some have for movies is too high. I think I’ve mentioned that before somewhere. I don’t know just seems unfair to me.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:31 AM   #175
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For the sake of clarification, there were at least two people having a discussion who weren't being immature. So long as we can be respectful of each other, arguing personal philosophy over how we approach new media (or life) is A-OK.


In terms of both Leo656 and WildCat, I stand a bit closer to Wildcat but totally understand Leo's point. I hope for the best but expect the worst. Or at least, I try not to get my hopes up too much. I'm a big fan of a lot of characters, and want to see them done justice when adapted to the big screen (or some other media). I know a lot of what I (or others) like has to be retooled to make something more palatable for the sake of mass consumption, but sometimes there seems to be a total lack of respect for the material.

The last two Star Wars movies left me cold. Because of that, I'm wary about any continuation of franchises that I've loved since I was a kid. Too many times they just. . . botched the whole thing.

Star Wars: Episodes VII and VIII
Ghostbusters: Answer the Call
Teenage Mutant Michael Bay Turtles
Superman (Man of Steel)

These should've all been easy lay ups. Instead, we got some absolute clunkers.

That's not to say some of these ventures CAN'T be good. Clone Wars and the 2013 TMNT were fantastic. And there was this gleaming moment in Justice League, right before Supes punches Beowulf, that they just NAILED Superman for me. That kind of corny but still inspiring talk about truth and justice. . . took me right back to the Christopher Reeve films.

So I see both points. I don't think either is immature, just polar opposite. Unfortunately, we lose a lot of nuance on the internet, and I'm pretty sure neither of you guys are out for blood. . . or even angry. Don't worry about it and have fun.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:36 AM   #176
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I've actually not been venturing any opinions lately about this because you're owning the thread. And I don't agree with any of what you've been saying about this movie.

But since we're here, it's 1 AM, and we're both probably drunk...

#1: It's happening. Stop saying it's not.

#2: The OG Ghostbusters will absolutely be involved. Hudson did a work and you know it.

#3: Yes, kid actors can work. I do work in film and it's said, the two things you don't want to work with are "children and animals." And it's true. But it can. "It" cast was great. "Stranger Things" cast was great. It's hard but it can work. And we have no idea what % of screentime is even going to the kids, and we still don't even know if these kids are going to be 12 or if they're going to be 17. Or even officially if there is kids as mains in any capacity.
I think the next thing You and I agree on will be the very first! But I've never seen that as the reason we get along, I just think you're a sharp cat. I think in 19 years (going back to the mailing list) we've maybe agreed... twice? But that's fine. You're still a good dude.

And it's 4:30 here, nothing's open and it's too damn COLD to walk to the liquor store! Although I'm overdue for some drunkposting, maybe next weekend.

To clarify, though:

- Obviously it's going to happen, I didn't mean to imply it's all smoke and mirrors to the point where it's not going to happen. They set a release date, of course a movie's coming out. What I mean is, it's mostly just on paper at this point. All we've SEEN is a short teaser, and I want to see more before I get excited. I could've chosen to get excited about "Answer the Call" based on the first teaser, and boy, I'm glad I didn't.

- I'd have to scroll back, but at some point I definitely said "obviously the originals will be involved". But I also said, 'They announced it before it was signed", which is most likely true, and "We don't know how big their roles will be, so I don't want to get excited yet". But yes, if they did the last one then OBVIOUSLY they'll do this one too. Will I like what I see them do, though? I sure hope so, man. I really hope so!

- Well, I haven't seen "Stranger Things" but I, personally, don't like child actors and I definitely don't want to see a "romp" with a whole group of them, overpowering what is supposed to be a Ghostbusters movie. But you still basically said what I said: We don't KNOW they're going that way, just that that is the most oft-repeated rumor. Based on that rumor, I'm nervous. If it's what they end up doing, I know that I, personally, probably won't like what they eventually come up with. But we obviously don't have the same taste, and that's totally fine, brother.

But we're still in the first minute of the first quarter. I'm wide open because we don't KNOW what they're doing. I just know that the one RUMORED idea that's going around, I don't like. And that I'm still going to wait until we get a lot more - cast, synopsis, actual footage, etc. - before I plant my flag either way.

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No I don’t have any problem with anybody really. Leo656 actually gives genuine responses. Other posts (here and elsewhere) are obviously just for attention or to rile things up. I’ve always been able to easily ignore that stuff.

@Leo656, Not to drag this specific discussion on but...I did not mean you literally stressed over movies and such. I meant a cynical mindset just seems like harsh view to have towards things.

The last thing I’ll say is I honestly do not expect others to share the same opinion or level of excitement. I just think the level of scrutiny some have for movies is too high. I think I’ve mentioned that before somewhere. I don’t know just seems unfair to me.
You're a wiser man than some.

And that doesn't have to be "the last thing" you say, I believe we were having a fair dialog and you never went offsides with me, buddy. I'll fully cop to having a "wait and see" attitude with most things in life, and I'll never, ever apologize for being cynical and even a little suspicious at times, but that comes from a lifetime of being disappointed by things that have very little to do with movies.

I just think it's funny that, in reading a lot of people's opinions about movies for many years, MOST people here end up looking forward to things very highly, very early on, and in the end, are generally kind of let down. Whereas I am a bit more discerning, but am much more likely to come out of an experience going, "Hey, that was alright. Why's everyone so upset?" And I think a lot of that has to do with Expectations.

I like to keep mine low, and end up pleasantly surprised in the end. Happens a lot! Ultimately, I find that "healthier" than setting my own personal "bar" for enjoyment too high and feeling underwhelmed in the end.

We're different people, and that's okay, man.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:43 AM   #177
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I think the next thing You and I agree on will be the very first!
Maybe outside of the million political threads we've partaken in. Like, what are you talking about? I can count like 20 threads where we're like, "F*** yeah!" in unison.

Quote:
But I've never seen that as the reason we get along, I just think you're a sharp cat. I think in 19 years (going back to the mailing list) we've maybe agreed... twice? But that's fine. You're still a good dude.
Wait, you were on the f***ing mailing list? Which one? NTML? TMNT-L?

Quote:
And it's 4:30 here, nothing's open and it's too damn COLD to walk to the liquor store! Although I'm overdue for some drunkposting, maybe next weekend.
I'm about to walk there for some smokes. It's 1:43 AM and WA has a snowpocalpyse.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:56 AM   #178
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@Leo656, Oh well see if your usually pleasantly surprised by stuff it’s kind contradicting to be so cynical at first. It’s ok to get excited. One of the points of movies and entertainment.

Like I’ve said I enjoy most of the stuff I watch and think most franchises have aged well enough in most cases. Some movies have really disappointed me but they’re few and far between.

As for this movie I agree with Andrew NDB. I’ve seen a lot of movies where the kids acting was perfectly fine. That’s why I have no problem if it’s true for this. They’d obviously choose ones that were at least capable.
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Old 02-10-2019, 04:11 AM   #179
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Maybe outside of the million political threads we've partaken in. Like, what are you talking about? I can count like 20 threads where we're like, "F*** yeah!" in unison.



Wait, you were on the f***ing mailing list? Which one? NTML? TMNT-L?



I'm about to walk there for some smokes. It's 1:43 AM and WA has a snowpocalpyse.
Fair point, I need to be reminded of things sometimes. Did You Know that Lithium can cause short-term memory loss? Also... so do "other things"...

Not just with you, I just get oblivious sometimes. Like, I once gave someone half my lunch, long story, and the next day I was telling someone that I consider myself a "selfish" person in general, and they're like, "Yeah, you're so selfish you gave that guy half your lunch without being asked, or that homeless guy you gave money to the other day", or whatever, he kept listing examples. He had to remind me that I do a lot for people, I guess because I just Do Things and don't dwell on them. Regardless, in MY head, I'm a selfish person, but other people often cite multiple examples of how my actions contradict that. I need it pointed out to me.

So yeah, we do agree on a fair bit. Thanks for the reminder. I think our disagreements are what speaks to our character(s), though, in that we can disagree and horse around but still have a good time with it.

I think I was on both mailing lists, actually. I think my handle was "Axl4Ever71" back then. We go back a long way, you and I!

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@Leo656, Oh well see if your usually pleasantly surprised by stuff it’s kind contradicting to be so cynical at first. It’s ok to get excited. One of the points of movies and entertainment.

Like I’ve said I enjoy most of the stuff I watch and think most franchises have aged well enough in most cases. Some movies have really disappointed me but they’re few and far between.

As for this movie I agree with Andrew NDB. I’ve seen a lot of movies where the kids acting was perfectly fine. That’s why I have no problem if it’s true for this. They’d obviously choose ones that were at least capable.
Oh, I am constantly, CONSTANTLY pleasantly surprised, buddy. Like I said, my Entertainment shelves look like the work of a goddamn serial killer. Everything from "American Psycho" to "My Little Pony", "Apocalypse Now" to "Speed Racer", things you've likely never seen or heard of and things *I* never thought I'd be into. I'm a passionate fan of MANY things, and I enjoy them to the hilt on the regular. "Balls deep", you might say.

I just like to wait and see. Recent example: Was very hyped for the "Supergirl" show a few years ago. Didn't like it. Serious letdown. A rare case of me letting my guard down too early. It stings. I don't like to feel that way.

It's also why I'm a big fan of Spoilers. They entice me to try things I otherwise didn't care about. I hear very interesting things and go, "Huh... that sounds very cool", and then it generally is.

I'll grant you an exception that proves my own "rule", though: "Bridge To Terabithia" was a movie I liked. So I can't even say I hate ALL movies that predominantly feature kids. See? I can bend. I'm just picky.

See, these are good conversations. I'm enjoying this.
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Slight gear shift, but I know I, Andrew and Wildcat all like Ghostbusters II more than most people. Let's talk about that. Andrew, I've seen you say that you never knew you were "supposed" to hate GBII until the internet said so, and that was my experience as well. I'd love to hear more about your own experience with that movie, and then I'll share my own a little bit. Because when I was a kid, every GB fan was all about it. I was baffled when I found out most people give it low marks.
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Old 02-10-2019, 04:34 AM   #180
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Oh I love My Little Pony FIM. Iíve only sampled some older generations but the current one is great. Bridge to Terabithia was pretty good.

As for Ghostbusters 2. Itís only real issue is it reverts the team to having no business and thought of as frauds. Hundreds of people saw Stay Puft Marshmallow Man walking down the street. It had to be on the news too.

That I personally did not like they added more stuff on top of the car. Itís purpose is never explained in the first place.
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