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Old 01-29-2019, 01:52 PM   #421
IndigoErth
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Well, then your psychic powers are very useful and hopefully other film makers disconnected from Platinum Dunes, etc will take note never to bother with them.
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:05 PM   #422
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That was just their attempts at Easter eggs.

I don't think that was a serious road map of where the movies were heading. They clearly did not have any firm plans for the series which honestly isn't the worst idea. Imagine if they build up a villain or plot line only for the audiences to react badly to them.

If you're a well oiled machine like Marvel Studios you can roll with it but Bay hates world building and very grudgingly tried it with his last Transformers movie and it was all for nothing as the one Transformers spin off they have managed to squeak out completely ignored the crappy set up and went its own way with the setting and story.

The likelihood is that they would have had Baxter "Stockwell" as a fly in the next movie. They seemed to like the idea of following the hierarchy of 80s cartoon villains and Baxter was next on the list. I can't imagine how thst we'd have ever gotten Triceratons or the Fugitoid or indeed any non-Fred Wolf based characters in the movies squinting and making out a silhouette in Kra(a)ng's "toy chest" was the best we were going to get.
Probably right!
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Old 01-29-2019, 03:05 PM   #423
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I do. Because they didn't.
Well it's not like we never got a mirage adaption either I mean the first three films from the 1990's,2003 tv series,and 2007 film are the closet but they were also criticized with only the first film being the most popular.
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Old 01-29-2019, 03:07 PM   #424
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Well it's not like we never got a mirage adaption either
It's a lot like that. Which isn't to say a new reboot needs to be that (though that wouldn't be the worst thing, since it's a stone left unturned), it's that they need to not make something anything like what they've been.
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Old 01-29-2019, 03:33 PM   #425
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It's a lot like that. Which isn't to say a new reboot needs to be that (though that wouldn't be the worst thing, since it's a stone left unturned), it's that they need to not make something anything like what they've been.
Well then we never got a mirage adaption and probably never will at this point at best they will mix up elements from previous incarnations
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Old 01-29-2019, 04:18 PM   #426
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Something original or IDW would be my vote. Some will disagree but I think TMNT 90 incorporated the best of the Mirage stuff while implementing and respecting what people loved about the cartoon at the time. So if we never get that ďpure MirageĒ adaptation, Iím okay with what we got.

The IDW comics Iím very, very behind on (only read up the second collected hardcover edition) but I liked what Iíve seen. Could make for a fresh take on things on the big screen.
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Old 01-29-2019, 05:37 PM   #427
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Something original or IDW would be my vote. Some will disagree but I think TMNT 90 incorporated the best of the Mirage stuff while implementing and respecting what people loved about the cartoon at the time. So if we never get that ďpure MirageĒ adaptation, Iím okay with what we got.
It's definitely the closest we'll ever get in live action, not counting someone's fan film for YouTube or something.

I'm fine with it. I may be blaspheming, but to me, Mirage completely in and of itself is way too dry to carry a movie.
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Old 01-29-2019, 05:46 PM   #428
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It's definitely the closest we'll ever get in live action, not counting someone's fan film for YouTube or something.

I'm fine with it. I may be blaspheming, but to me, Mirage completely in and of itself is way too dry to carry a movie.
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:04 PM   #429
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Love you too buddy.

I get why people like Mirage, but the stuff that MOST people like about TMNT... isn't in there. And you're not gonna "re-educate" the public at this point. Ain't happening.

Any live-action movie has to have mass appeal. Thus, a "straight" Mirage adaptation is completely off the table. I wouldn't be adverse to it existing, but I'm pragmatic; they can't spend the necessary $100 million + for a CGI-fest (since nobody wants to use suits anymore) and then market it to such a niche audience.

It's not the fact that Mirage puts me to sleep that makes me say this, because a Mirage movie would likely be very good, objectively. But it's absolutely not the movie most people want to see and not the movie they want to spend a fortune making.

If anything, the fact that the "safe bet" Bebop & Rocksteady movie failed so spectacularly means that they're never going to take any risks again. Doing a straight Mirage film? Huge risk. No built-in audience, no jokes for the kiddies, no love story. Never happen.

Sorry guy. But I feel your pain.
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:22 PM   #430
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Make it a straight to Netflix deal. If that goes over well then put a sequel in theaters.
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:25 PM   #431
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At least make it a trilogy
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Old 01-30-2019, 08:50 AM   #432
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I mean, the 1990 film was loosely based on Mirage and even fans of the FW series loved it so I'm not sure why a Mirage movie wouldn't work.

I would actually be interested in a movie in the vain of the recent Planet of the Apes movie. It could try a unique spin on the origin story. Maybe give more of an in-depth story on how the turtles learn how to walk and speak like a human. Raised by a human before they are betrayed by humanity and live in the sewers.

What I would really yearn for is a film where the entire setting takes place in Japan (the right way) where the turtles are raised there and trained as ninjas. Instead of Yoshi fleeing from Japan to New York, he can hide someplace far within it. Maybe April can be a world traveler looking for antiques and artifacts in Japan and accidentally stumbles upon the turtles. I think you can tell something engaging with a story like that.
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Old 01-30-2019, 07:12 PM   #433
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But HOW would you sell it to an audience of people who only know or care about the cartoon(s)? It absolutely doesn't matter how well-done or engaging it is, it HAS to be a commercially viable product to even get a budget.

The 1990 movie worked only because it was very loosely Mirage-inspired. It "worked" because they fudged things a bit to make it more like the cartoon, AND, added more human characters so that the more discerning members of the audience (read: parents) wouldn't be rolling their eyes at the whole thing.

Remove the Turtles' recognizable personalities, the "relationship" between Casey and April, and Danny Pennington as the Audience Avatar, and what you're left with is a movie that no producer would greenlight, because it doesn't check enough demographic boxes. It could be the most faithful or heartfelt take on the property ever done, but it doesn't matter if the producers don't think it has "crossover appeal". Meaning, kids have to like it, their parents have to like it (or at least not think it's drivel), and it has to appeal equally to boys and girls. AND - whether we like it or not - it HAS to have at least the base foundation of a "love story".

That's actually a hard rule, by the way. Every single Hollywood "blockbuster" has to at least tease a coupling between the male/female leads, whether it be flirting or a full-blown kiss at the end credits. I'm not making this up; the character of "Rachel Dawes" was created for Chris Nolan's Batman movies simply because the producers felt that Batman's origin wasn't enough to sell "Batman Begins", and that it would do better with women if they had a love interest. She adds almost nothing to the film aside from being a cliche', but her presence was mandatory or else the movie wasn't getting made. See also, "Chase Meridian" for "Batman Forever", same thing. "The good guy has to kiss someone". It's a rule.

So what's left? Nothing any "purist" or "hardcore fan" would ever want to see could possibly get budget approval. There have to be jokes, the characters' personalities have to be mostly one-dimensional archetypes, and someone has to be trying to get in April's pants (and she's most likely required to be a "star" actress, at this point). Otherwise, no producer in all of Hollywood would agree to put up the money for it. This isn't me saying I agree with their priorities, I'm just saying, "These are the things that are most important in getting ANY movie made". The things TMNT fans most want to see go directly against the blueprint.

Which is why I don't hold my breath for a "good" TMNT movie ever again, and just cherish the 1990 film for what it is, while recognizing that that kind of TMNT film could only have been made under those very specific conditions. I'm not trying to tell anyone there's no Santa Claus; but I have friends all over the place, some of them work in front of the camera and some of them behind it, but these are the things you hear. "They only wanna make a movie if it has ____, _____ and ______." It is what it is.

I think where a lot of fans set themselves up for disappointment, is they talk about what kind of STORY they'd like to see. They forget that movies like TMNT - which by definition are effects-driven and expensive - are NOT about telling stories, they're about selling product. When you're selling product, you have to check the boxes. These aren't "real movies", they're commercials for all the OTHER TMNT media, like the toys - which we all know is where they actually make their money.

Again, if anyone ever does a "real" movie, I'll celebrate. But I know what "the rules" are for getting a movie made, so I don't bother hoping for it. In the current climate it absolutely cannot happen.
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Old 01-30-2019, 09:27 PM   #434
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\See also, "Chase Meridian" for "Batman Forever", same thing.
Ohhhhhhhh boy. Dr Chase Meridian.
Spoiler:

I think I will go see the good Doctor, thank you!

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Old 01-31-2019, 04:14 AM   #435
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That's actually a hard rule, by the way. Every single Hollywood "blockbuster" has to at least tease a coupling between the male/female leads, whether it be flirting or a full-blown kiss at the end credits. I'm not making this up; the character of "Rachel Dawes" was created for Chris Nolan's Batman movies simply because the producers felt that Batman's origin wasn't enough to sell "Batman Begins", and that it would do better with women if they had a love interest. She adds almost nothing to the film aside from being a cliche', but her presence was mandatory or else the movie wasn't getting made. See also, "Chase Meridian" for "Batman Forever", same thing. "The good guy has to kiss someone". It's a rule.
One of the best examples gotta be the Patch Adams movie where not only do we have the mandatory hetero romance shoved in there but she's also fridged, and the character is completely made-up in this "based on a true story" movie.

Adams did have friend that was murdered, but it was a guy and they wheren't romantic.
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:01 AM   #436
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It did make it so much more satisfying when she died in TDK, though.
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:37 AM   #437
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Really does make you appreciate the first film.

It's not perfect, but it's a damn miracle for a tmnt fan, as far as I'm concerned. I'm in agreement with a lot of you, that it captures most of what is necessary from Mirage, down to the gritty, low-fi aesthetic.

Could most likely be improved upon itself, if we ever get the director's cut.

As for the future, I still hold out a lot of curiosity, if not hope, for whatever they come up with. The 1990 film will probably always be my favorite, and that can be a positive fact. If they can "check those boxes" with a subtle hand, there can still be room for a future TMNT film with a lot of heart, fun, and possibly some of the edge or grit we love, from Mirage. If not, it's hard for me to be disappointed, after the previous films. I stand back and look with a curious eye, and if it happens to turn out good, then "yay".
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:39 AM   #438
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Really does make you appreciate the first film.

It's not perfect, but it's a damn miracle for a tmnt fan, as far as I'm concerned. I'm in agreement with a lot of you, that it captures most of what is necessary from Mirage, down to the gritty, low-fi aesthetic.

Could most likely be improved upon itself, if we ever get the director's cut.

As for the future, I still hold out a lot of curiosity, if not hope, for whatever they come up with. The 1990 film will probably always be my favorite, and that can be a positive fact. If they can "check those boxes" with a subtle hand, there can still be room for a future TMNT film with a lot of heart, fun, and possibly some of the edge or grit we love, from Mirage. If not, it's hard for me to be disappointed, after the previous films. I stand back and look with a curious eye, and if it happens to turn out good, then "yay".
Mirage became just a a weird adventure and with lacking a rogues gallery sort of slice of life thing.
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:51 AM   #439
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It's not perfect, but it's a damn miracle for a tmnt fan, as far as I'm concerned. I'm in agreement with a lot of you, that it captures most of what is necessary from Mirage, down to the gritty, low-fi aesthetic.
It captures maybe 50% of it. Probably 40%. Generously.
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Old 01-31-2019, 11:28 AM   #440
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It captures maybe 50% of it. Probably 40%. Generously.
I think it's more nebulous than that.

Mirage itself managed to capture a semi-wide range of tones in just the first volume. I imagine we are mostly just speaking to the Laird/Eastman - penned issues though, and when it comes to those, I think it captures more than half of what was conveyed in the books.

From the story beats of Saki/Splinter's origin (nobody misses Nagi), Splinter's capture, the flame-encompassed battle in April's shop, which led to Casey's introduction to the family, the final rooftop battle, to the character work on Raphael, and the dark, grainy, DIY aesthetic that I mentioned above, which was a great asset in relating the movie back to those original black and white issues.

Obviously it's not a straight outline of those first twelve-issues (which would be boring - please creators, have some creative liberty when switching storytelling mediums), but you really can't ask for much more...I mean, except for more. We can't really expect him to encompass all that Mirage fully represents in one film, but Steve Baron did a great job of incorporating of lot of the "greatest hits" moments of the early Mirage issues.

Had the first film had sequels by Steve Baron, I imagine we could have seen more Mirage elements thrown into the stew.

I mean, for the 90 minutes it has available, what 60% of crucial elements is it missing from Mirage? I still agree that it's not a perfect Mirage adaption, but unless you're just being facetious, your argument of it only containing "40%" of Mirage - DNA (this is a really tricky thing to accurately measure) is sort of dumbfounding to me.

Yes, there are lighter elements added to the mix. Some of the weaker fight-choreography involved goofy tricks instead of "stabby stabby". I can see that erasing some of that Mirage-feel. Yet, at the same time, they didn't shy away from Saki's gruesome demise in this film, and you also have to remember that Mirage did do "goofy turtles" sometimes. Though that's not a hill I feel the need to die on.

If using these inadequate measurements, I'd say the film is at least 70% Mirage-fueled. Probably more.

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