Star Wars Episode 8

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by dl316bh

If you want to argue that's bad, well, sure, I won't disagree that it sucks stuff can boil down to that, but that either requires policing - and hell, even moderators on forums couldn't keep a complete handle on it in the big forum days - or the internet going away, and it's a little late to put that genie back in the bottle.

This IS bad, because it unnecessary polarizes, divides and angers people for the pettiest of reasons - personal taste.

I'd prefer policing to evade this, but since more often than not moderators are not exempt from being on one side or another, this won't happen.

[dl316bh]

Originally Posted by Sumac

This IS bad, because it unnecessary polarizes, divides and angers people for the pettiest of reasons - personal taste.

I'd prefer policing to evade this, but since more often than not moderators are not exempt from being on one side or another, this won't happen.

I might just be used to it, because my family finally got us on the internet in, like, 2000, so I was involved in the days of forums and just kind of grew to understand this was just what happened, which is why, once I realized that, I stepped back, especially in the social media era. I haven't used Facebook more than once every six months for years now and I pulled back from Twitter late last year, only going on once or twice a week, mainly to comment on wrestling. I have a group of close friends - met on forums, in fact - that we talk everyday on Discord about different things and that's all the discussion I need.

I guess the only real option is for social media to take abuse seriously and actually have consequences when it's reported, but that's a can of worms they've done their damndest to avoid opening and have been lackadaisical about. I mean, that would cut down a lot. Otherwise, there's not much else you can do. You can't really moderate platforms as large as, say, Twitter the way forums used to be.

[sdp]

Have you guys been looking at some of the interviews with Mark Hamill, he seems to not be happy with the direction the Sequel Trilogy went either. It's hard to tell if he's just being sarcastic or if he actually means some of the things he says but some seem to be really honest comments.

What depressed me the most is he mentions how they had all signed on for the Sequel Trilogy and just a few months later they get the news that Disney bought it and they changed all the original ideas. He also mentions how he hated he didn't get a scene with Han and Leia together among other stuff about things changing or not being written how he would like to, especially since TFA made a lot of money.

Originally Posted by dl316bh

I mainly balk at the idea it's at all recent.

But it is, we didn't see this level of "toxicity" from people who disagree with others, everyone now goes to their safe echo chambers and comes up with crazy excuses as to why things aren't going according to what they feel should be.

[dl316bh]

Originally Posted by sdp

Have you guys been looking at some of the interviews with Mark Hamill, he seems to not be happy with the direction the Sequel Trilogy went either. It's hard to tell if he's just being sarcastic or if he actually means some of the things he says but some seem to be really honest comments.

What depressed me the most is he mentions how they had all signed on for the Sequel Trilogy and just a few months later they get the news that Disney bought it and they changed all the original ideas. He also mentions how he hated he didn't get a scene with Han and Leia together among other stuff about things changing or not being written how he would like to, especially since TFA made a lot of money.

I haven't seen that interview, but yeah, I have seen Mark Hammil talk about how he isn't pleased with where the new trilogy has gone. I think it's him being honest. He generally has been when it comes to all of this and he's pretty protective of the character of Luke. I think it was relatively recently that he mentioned how upset he was, all those years ago, about the Wampa scene of Empire, because he felt Luke wouldn't lop the creatures arm off.

But it is, we didn't see this level of "toxicity" from people who disagree with others, everyone now goes to their safe echo chambers and comes up with crazy excuses as to why things aren't going according to what they feel should be.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. *shrug*

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Sumac

This IS bad, because it unnecessary polarizes, divides and angers people for the pettiest of reasons - personal taste.

I'd prefer policing to evade this, but since more often than not moderators are not exempt from being on one side or another, this won't happen.

yep, moderators are just as apt to call one troll as the people you are asking for help from....cause somewhere along the way, they made up their mind about 'one side' or 'the other' and switched.

that's why I Think it's RECENTLY gotten really bad. objectivity is long gone for the most part.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by dl316bh

snip

I don't have social media stuff for the same reason - I have enough bad news and idiots around, as is.

My opinion, is that communities should police themselves to keep themselves healthy and friendly, but instead they double down on extreme points of view and turn into echo chambers.

Not a new thing, obviously, but nowadays, it has become really toxic, where every discussion turns into shitslinging contest, who will utter more "popular" insults at each other and who will start comparing people to Nazis first for any reason.

[snake]

I unironically want to die. SW was the only thing keeping me going and I can't handle the death of the entire franchise because that c*nt Kathleen Kennedy hates white males and Luke. There's no coming back from this sh*tfest. SW is ruined for good this time. I don't want to live in this world anymore.

If it weren't for the fact that my family would be destroyed, I'd have killed myself months ago, but I was always holding out hope that TLJ would be good and I'd get to see Luke redeem himself. F*ck it, assisted suicide should be legal. I need out.

[dl316bh]

Real Question: The hell they not gonna get Billy Dee Williams back and throw some Lando in? They got everyone else.

[sdp]

Yeah, I mentioned that a while back in the thread, where's Lando? We need him.

Does anyone think that Leia should've died in this movie? I know after Carrie died Lucasfilm quickly said they wouldn't kill her off in VIII and people were happy but if we look at it this film was perfect to have her die, it would've been easy to implement and fit nicely. I don't know what they'll do in IX, they said they wouldn't CG her, so unless they only mention her by name and never show her or kill her off screen it's going to be a bit messy when things could've been smoother in this movie.

[dl316bh]

Originally Posted by sdp

Yeah, I mentioned that a while back in the thread, where's Lando? We need him.

Oh, sorry. Didn't read the whole thread. I just find it weird that the dude hasn't even been mentioned, apparently. I liked Lando a lot. Would have loved him to have a role in these if you're bringing the old guard back.

Does anyone think that Leia should've died in this movie? I know after Carrie died Lucasfilm quickly said they wouldn't kill her off in VIII and people were happy but if we look at it this film was perfect to have her die, it would've been easy to implement and fit nicely. I don't know what they'll do in IX, they said they wouldn't CG her, so unless they only mention her by name and never show her or kill her off screen it's going to be a bit messy when things could've been smoother in this movie.

They're between a rock and a hard place there, yeah. It seems like this whole new trilogy was meant as a passing of the torch from movie to movie and it sounds like their original plans would cap that with IX. Han with VII, Luke with VIII and Leia with IX. Now they'll have to change everything and yeah, they'll have to write her off. Which sucks, but was unfortunately a risk. They probably should have just done it here, but they probably thought that would come off as disrespectful or something.

[ranger_scout]

It was another thrilling episode of this series. I liked how the very beginning:

Spoiler:

didn't exactly pick-up where The Force Awakens had ended.It was cool to have a big battle up in space. Luke throwing the light-saber away as soon as Rey give it to him was funny. I was expecting Snoke to live past the episode like Darth Sidious. So, now Ben/Kylo Ren is the leader of the First Order. I loved seeing Yoda again! That was so epic! Luke's reunion with R2-D2 was really sweet. There also really couldn't have been a better way for Luke to go out the way he did. However, just like Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda I wouldn't at all be surprised if his spirit appeared.

There are still a lot of questions as to what will happen next since:

Spoiler:

Leia didn't die in the film. It looked like as if she did though during that scene where that part of the ship she was on got destroyed. It seemed that since she reunited with Luke before he died that she was going to fully see her son again in the next one and then her character's journey would've ended there. I have confidence that they will come up with the best way to write Leia out of the series even though Carrie Fisher is no longer with us.

[Krutch]

Alright, just came back from seeing it a second time.

Here’s my more thorough thoughts.

Spoilers ahead.

Spoiler:

Here’s the thing about this movie. It has little to no interest in following up on any of the questions introduced by JJ in TFA. Who’s Snoke? Doesn’t matter. Who’s Rey’s parents? Nobody. How did Maz get Luke’s lightsaber? Why did R2D2 magically reawaken? Why did Luke hide a map inside R2 if he didn't want to be found? Who knows and who cares. The films mantra seems to be “let the past die”, which numerous characters state throughout the bloated runtime. The thing is, each time the film presents an opportunity to do so, it undercuts itself and reverts back to status quo.

Rey and Ben team up to form a new order separate from the Resistance and First Order? Bold choice! I’m on boar-oh, wait… Rey’s back with the Resistance and Kylo’s commanding the First Order.

Killing off Finn in the second movie? Bold choice! I’m on boar-oh, wait… Nope, Rose took that choice away from him. Everyone survives.

Kylo resists killing off Leia only to have his stormtroopers deliver the killing blow instead, forever haunting him if he could have done something? Bold choice! I’m on boar-oh, wait… Nope, there she goes, Mary Poppinsing her way to safety.

Yoda burns down the remains of the Jedi temple, cementing the end of the Jedi and ushering in a new age? Bold choice! I'm on boar-oh, wait... Rey took the books with her.

The worst sin the film commits, in direct contradiction of it’s message, is it basically ends up in more or less the same place it began. Sure, Luke and Snoke are gone, but they had little significance in TFA to begin with. Rey is still on the light side, Ben is still conflicted and on the dark side, Rey & Finn’s relationship didn’t move an inch, we still don’t know jack about who Snoke was, The First Order still has the upper hand like in the beginning of TFA, and Luke never even left the island.

And please correct me if I’m wrong, but I can’t think of a single character in this movie who really achieves their intended goal. Kylo wants to turn Rey, Rey wants to turn Kylo, neither succeed. Poe wants to stage a mutiny, fails. Finn and Rose want to find the master codebreaker, fails. Then they want to sabotage the ships tracking device, fail at that as well. Then they want destroy the battering ram machine, fail at that. Phasma wants to kill Finn, dies (again) trying. Leia wants to save the Resistance, but by the end there’s so few left they can all fit on the Falcon, so, I wouldn’t call that a win. Hux wants to wipe out the last of the Resistance, they get away. Snoke wants to kill Rey, gets himself killed. I guess Luke’s goal to delay the First Order works, so that’s something, I guess. But this whole trilogy is a result of his failure of training Ben, so…

I’m not going to get into plotholes, leaps of logic, and how pointless and uninteresting Finn and Rose’s side quest was because, well, that's already been well covered.

Sidenote 1: Did anyone else feel that Leia should have been the one to stay on the ship to lightspeed kamikaze the First Order? It even felt perfectly set up for it when she says “I can’t take another loss.” Then moving forward you can have Vice Admiral Holdo in place trying to live up to Leia’s legacy. This would also line up with the “let the past die” mantra the film so wants us to embrace.

Sidenote 2: This may not be exactly PC to bring up, but anyone happen to notice the background actors? Watch again. The ratio is 50 percent women, 40 percent aliens, and 10 percent men. It’s not a bad thing, just a distracting thing seeing such a blatant agenda on full display. Kathleen Kennedy’s not exactly subtle in her approach.

Sidenote 3: Regarding the last shot of the movie… The movie insists the events on Crait will somehow have a ripple effect across the universe. Luke even says “The Rebellion is reborn today.” Poe also has a line about being the spark that will light the fire which will bring the First Order down. Can someone clarify how anything that happened was supposed to inspire hope? I mean, should that not have happened at the end of TFA when the First Order’s mega weapon was destroyed? How is having the Resistance dwindled down to under 100 people after all their allies refused to show up supposed to inspire hope?

Don’t get me wrong, there’s quite a bit of nice moments in the movie, too.

Everything involving Luke/Rey/Ben I liked (minus the constant flashbacks.)
Loved Luke’s brushing dirt off his shoulder.
Loved that Rey’s parents are nobodies (my hope was that or she’s a Palpatine, so I’m happy I got my wish…for now.)
Liked the fake-out Force hologram reveal.
I liked Rose’s sentimental (if cheesy) “We’ll win this war not by fighting the ones we hate, but by saving the ones we love” moment.
I liked seeing the Force used in new ways.
I liked seeing Poe get more screen time this time around.

I think it’d only take a couple tweaks here and there and this could have been a really special movie. As it stands, it’s just frustrating. For every exciting choice it presents, it’s gun shy nature quickly resets to the status quo and I’m left wondering only "what if?”

[newfan]

Spoiler:

No I don't didn't think Leia should have died in this movie, okay you may expect her to have stayed behind, but it's Leia, I cared less about the other character...and weren't there enough deaths with Han and Luke already. I think they may likely have killed her in the next one though, I wonder if we'll know what they had planned to do with her.

R2D2 suddenly woke up because there was finally news of finding Luke, he shut down after Luke went away...

Hamil didn't even know he wouldn't be in the first movie while he was doing all of his training (from a TV show where he guested on Friday)

Just a thought with Rey, are we supposed to assume she did a lot of training we didn't see with Luke? Just, Luke was barely a full Jedi in ROJ, yet Rey seems to be a self made one, is that part of her all powerful arc?

[Andrew NDB]

People forget the timeline of events. George sat Carrie and Mark and Harrison down for dinner and told them he's doing 7-9 and asked them if they're down, revealing to them his general outline. They were. Then he sold to Disney. Then as part of the deal with Disney (mandated by Disney) George had to actually flesh out and deliver them his outline (their terms, not his). He did. Ardnt wrote his 7 script based on Lucas' 7 outline... and then Disney said "Whoa! Too much like prequels!" And in comes Abrams with the remake hammer.

The rest is history. Sad!

[Shark_Blade]

Pretty interesting discussion.



Yeah all the issues people raised are very valid and I can see why people are pissed. I still have a soft spot for it though, maybe because it has Luke and Leia('s last performance in it).

Finn and Poe, they kinda have this bromance going on earlier in TFA. It's pretty subtle things like the eyes movement, body gestures, like they really care for each other very much. In TLJ it's all thrown out the window - they literally have zero chemistry. They just brushed off each other in their storyline (Finn going Rey where's Rey Rey Rey, and Poe going BB8! Wtf) like they don't give a damn at all. Disappointed.

Also like someone's already mentioned, it's pretty clear there's no repercussion much in this film, they're pretty much where they left off at TFA. Who's gonna be the main villain in the third movie? Kylo again? Lol can't take him seriously. He's not even intimidating, got beaten by a newbie Jedi I just can't with this mess.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

People forget the timeline of events. George sat Carrie and Mark and Harrison down for dinner and told them he's doing 7-9 and asked them if they're down, revealing to them his general outline. They were. Then he sold to Disney. Then as part of the deal with Disney (mandated by Disney) George had to actually flesh out and deliver them his outline (their terms, not his). He did. Ardnt wrote his 7 script based on Lucas' 7 outline... and then Disney said "Whoa! Too much like prequels!" And in comes Abrams with the remake hammer.

The rest is history. Sad!

Is there any information about his ideas for Sequel Trilogy?

[newfan]

I'd be interested to know what his outline was.

I wish the gap between ROJ and the sequels hadn't been so big, I know George was always going to do the prequels first from what I've heard but had he scrapped the idea of doing any more movies at some point? (given the time gaps between them all)

As for Sharkblades post, yeah they make some good points.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

Finn and Poe, they kinda have this bromance going on earlier in TFA. It's pretty subtle things like the eyes movement, body gestures, like they really care for each other very much. In TLJ it's all thrown out the window - they literally have zero chemistry. They just brushed off each other in their storyline (Finn going Rey where's Rey Rey Rey, and Poe going BB8! Wtf) like they don't give a damn at all. Disappointed.

Finn being all about Rey makes sense, at least to me. The last thing he remembers is falling at the hands of Kylo, and knowing that left Rey alone.
Where as Poe got all that interim time, where things have gotten a lot more dire. They were on the offensive in TFA, but they're on the defensive in TLJ.

No time for love, Dr. Jones.

[sdp]

I'm surprised by the negativity this movie is getting, it really doesn't do anything wrong that Episode VII didn't do. I was sure people were going to love it. I know the opinion of VII changed a lot in the last two years but I truly expected people to be all over it. I remember how Episode II & III were considered "amazing, Lucas redeemed Star Wars" when they first came out as well and it took some time before the new movie high wore off. I hope Disney listens.

Also I don't want to start a endlessly toxic Vegita/Plastron debate but yeah these movies are being politicized heavily by FAKE geek news blogs, all I did was read some Mark Hammill interviews and now google was suggesting articles like these:
Toxic Masculinity Is the True Villain of Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Den of Geek
Star Wars: The Last Jedi Offers the Harsh Condemnation of Mansplaining We Need in 2017
Vanity Fair

Divisive Clickbait FTW, crap like this is is why most topics end up turning political when people just want to enjoy entertainment.

Originally Posted by Krutch

Spoiler:

Rey and Ben team up to form a new order separate from the Resistance and First Order? Bold choice! I’m on boar-oh, wait… Rey’s back with the Resistance and Kylo’s commanding the First Order.

I agree with many of your points, but especially this one,

Spoiler:

I was so excited during these whole scene, like "THIS IS STAR WARS" during these whole scene, they were really taking things a new direction, we now had Kylo/Rey working on the same side, but are they the bad guys? the good guys? The end of the past/jedi/sith/rebels/empire for something new? Wow, we're going a new direction, this is awe-

Oh no, we're back to Empire vs Rebels.

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

Finn and Poe, they kinda have this bromance going on earlier in TFA.

To be fair the "bromance" was most likely just something they didn't realize but fans really noticed and made it a meme. There was a little Bromance in the beginning of the film, though I agree that they completely ignore most things, even BB-8, scratch that, especially BB-8. Droids always played a huge part in Star Wars.

Poe was ok in TFA but he didn't get a lot of screen time, now that we had a lot of Poe, I wish we hadn't Rey/Finn were far more interesting. They try really hard to sell him "He's a Rebel" "That's why I like him" ugh. Any of the rebels from Rogue One are much better characters.

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

They were on the offensive in TFA, but they're on the defensive in TLJ.

But why? The First Order was apparently this "empire lite" in TFA who were going to "go big" with their mega weapon and be a threat again but in that same movie their big weapon is destroyed. And yet somehow now the Republic is the underdog and the Empi- I mean First Order is again in control of almost everything? What?

[TigerClaw]

Here's Cinemassacre's review.