Best Turtle Lair

[Torterra]

Of all the different turtle lairs we had throughout the years which one is the best or your favorite?

My favorites are the lairs from both the 2003 series from that ancient civilization before it was destroyed by Karai and the 2012 series lair since I do like the idea of the turtles living more in a abandoned subway than a sewer but that's just me.

[Musashi]

The abandoned underground station in live-action movies II and III. I'd happily live in that.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Musashi

The abandoned underground station in live-action movies II and III. I'd happily live in that.

That terminal DOES exist! It is actually the old City Hall station crom Grand Central, which has been out of use for decades, but is occasionally open for tours. It is one of the most architecturally interesting subway stations in New York. I've run across images of it several times while researching subways in New York City.

In answer to the question, my favorite lairs are the OT lair and the Subway lair from movies 2 and 3. The fact that the latter is an actual place makes it even cooler, imho.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

That terminal DOES exist! It is actually the old City Hall station crom Grand Central, which has been out of use for decades, but is occasionally open for tours. It is one of the most architecturally interesting subway stations in New York. I've run across images of it several times while researching subways in New York City.

I think the subway lair in II and III is a built set, although they do seem to have taken quite a few design details from the City Hall station. Thinking about it, even though it's a massive set and no doubt expensive to build, the number of days involved as well as the lighting and effects requirements would have made building it more cost-effective.

Edit: Confirmed. It was a built set, used in II, III and The Next Mutation TV series.

[Cyndaquilfan123]

2012 is mine. The one from the OT seems rather cozy also.

[Galactus]

Surprisingly I'd choose The lair from the '87 series. It looks suitably enough like a sewer but livable like a home with a few extra rooms like the dojo, Don'a lab and garage.

The first cartoon lair strikes me a lot as an expansion of the original Mirage lair which I liked especially the hidden entrance but since we didn't really see much of it to properly judge. I actually really liked the lair in Laird's Vol. 4 and it seemed like it had some cool features but again we didn't see enough of it to judge.

The first movie lair is also great and also follows the same line of thinking in it's design. It's probably the most realistic depiction in TMNT media of what making a livable home in sewer might look like but is once again let down by the fact that we don't really see anything other than the main room.

I don't mind the bigger lairs like the Secret of the Ooze subway or the Y'lintian base from the '03 show but I'd rather they upgrade to those as opposed to starting off with them like '12 or the horrid ill thought out underground club houses they had in the Platinum Dunes movies. The best depiction of a larger lair for my money would actually be the one from the Imagi movie.

[MikeandRaph87]

My favorite is the bunker under the abandoned church in northeast section of alphabet city. I am a student of history and find it a cool concept. It's not the traditional sewer lair yet its underground. It may not have the lore of the second of the three used in the 2003 cartoon, but it does have a historical note.

As an aside, I like the fact that the Turtles and Splinter kept the same lair from start to finish in the 1987 cartoon. I would like to see something that last more than a season or film where the Turtles don't have to relocate.

[The Great Saiyaman]

Originally Posted by Musashi

The abandoned underground station in live-action movies II and III. I'd happily live in that.

I wonder how many fans of the 2012 series saw that reference to those movies when looking at that series. It's not the same abandoned subway station but it is an abandoned subway station all the same.

Which is also why I loved that scene in "New girl in town" where the team led by Raph is scouring through a REAL sewer and Donatello has to explain to Michelangelo why it stinks so much.

[neatoman]

Well let's be objective here. Which one of these lairs would smell the least like poop, piss, puke, gasoline and rotting rat carcasses?

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Well let's be objective here. Which one of these lairs would smell the least like poop, piss, puke, gasoline and rotting rat carcasses?

I think my choice would fit that description. See above.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Musashi

I think the subway lair in II and III is a built set, although they do seem to have taken quite a few design details from the City Hall station. Thinking about it, even though it's a massive set and no doubt expensive to build, the number of days involved as well as the lighting and effects requirements would have made building it more cost-effective.

Edit: Confirmed. It was a built set, used in II, III and The Next Mutation TV series.

Hmm, that's odd, since it wouldn't have cost them anything to use the actual location, as it has not been in use since 1945. It would have been perfectly usable, with little cost for props and other materials.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

As an aside, I like the fact that the Turtles and Splinter kept the same lair from start to finish in the 1987 cartoon. I would like to see something that last more than a season or film where the Turtles don't have to relocate.

I think they relocated between Seasons 1 and 2.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Hmm, that's odd, since it wouldn't have cost them anything to use the actual location, as it has not been in use since 1945. It would have been perfectly usable, with little cost for props and other materials.

They would have shot a lot of days on that set, quite a few just for Secret of the Ooze, even before you consider that they put it in storage for III and ended up using it for The Next Mutation TV series as well. Plus they needed a lot of lighting equipment, the right infrastructure for operating muppet Splinter with a few different techniques. They used pyrotechnics and interactive lighting effects in III, they used heavy camera rigs and probably a crane at some point. The main reason would be the sheer number of days they needed to use the set, and the convenience of having it so near the unit base - It would have more than paid for itself.

Oh, and the bulk of both movies were shot in North Carolina - New York shooting days were far more expensive and done sparingly, and tended to be around recognisable surface landmarks and places with the right sort of "steam rising from manhole covers" atmosphere.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Musashi

They would have shot a lot of days on that set, quite a few just for Secret of the Ooze, even before you consider that they put it in storage for III and ended up using it for The Next Mutation TV series as well. Plus they needed a lot of lighting equipment, the right infrastructure for operating muppet Splinter with a few different techniques. They used pyrotechnics and interactive lighting effects in III, they used heavy camera rigs and probably a crane at some point. The main reason would be the sheer number of days they needed to use the set, and the convenience of having it so near the unit base - It would have more than paid for itself.

Oh, and the bulk of both movies were shot in North Carolina - New York shooting days were far more expensive and done sparingly, and tended to be around recognisable surface landmarks and places with the right sort of "steam rising from manhole covers" atmosphere.

I was thinking cost of materials and lighting, etc, vs using an already existing, full "set", with virtually no overhead beyond possibly city rental fees and a bit of set dressing and lighting enhancements for what is already there. It's a big station, so there would have been plenty of room for props and cameras, I've seen both movies enough times to have noticed a number of details, like the stairwell at the entrance, where Mikey originally fell through the grate from above into the abandoned station, or the train car that serves as splinter's room and a family gathering spot. THAT would be very costly to build! Not to mention there would have been labor costs for putting a whole set together, taking it down, storage, and rebuilding, retouching, etc. Seems like that would add up quite a bit, and in fact both movies had larger budgets than the original, so that tracks. They sure didn't use it on the costumes in 3! (Probably on the Japanese village, is my guess, and the construction site and club in 2, as the lair was shown only briefly in a few scenes in each of those films.) I feel like someone dropped the ball on budgeting, as that was a missed opportunity to save costs with some creative shooting in a real location, that could have then been used to improve the animatronics and costuming on the turtles, especially in 3!

As far as set building goes, I think the only part that they might have actually NEEDED to build would be the side alcove area that where the turtles sleep, something that doesn't exist in the actual location. It's briefly shown in a few scenes as background space, and I think once when one of them is waking up or coming out of it, iirc, but otherwise would not have been needed.

I dunno, just seems like building an entire set and adding all the details to match the locale, vs using the real place, would not have been as cost-effective, given all the work and materials required, compared to just paying a few fees to use it. (And since it IS not used by the city, the time spent there would not have mattered. The city only runs tours periodically, so they could have had the entire place to themselves for as long as needed, with tours either being canceled or rescheduled for later.)

[Rabbit Kraken Zeo]

1987 Lair, 2012 Lair and Ninja Turtles 3 Lair.

All the lairs have their place; but these are my tops however 2012 really felt genuine like a "cool breeze" lair of parties and games so that really makes it stand out; 3's film with the opening dance scene and 87' with the way it was designed in animation; beautiful stuff.

You can't go wrong with any.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

I was thinking cost of materials and lighting, etc, vs using an already existing, full "set"...

All fair, but I think the most important consideration would have been that this was a production based in North Carolina for logistical (mostly cost, probably) reasons, one which used a couple of days expensive shooting in New York quite far from their base in order to convincingly set the movies there. They most likely shot in New York with as small a crew as possible, and only basic camera equipment - they shot right outside a Henson owned building in II probably to save some money and have somewhere the crew could use the facilities*. A key interior like the Turtles' home was always going to be a build.

*Believe me, this is the most important consideration on any shoot.

The second most important consideration is the Turtles and Splinter - Each one character on screen was backed by quite a big team of people, and Splinter for example needed the whole set to be planned around him. Panels in the floor that could be removed so the puppeteer could operate him from beneath for example. You need facilities on hand - catering, toilets etc - that for the number of required shooting days - especially on III, check how much of that movie was in that environment, it's quite a lot - makes for a much more comfortable and safe workplace for dozens of people.

The specific part you mention, falling through the roof, is an argument for a build in itself - With a difficult sequence like that, you really want full control of the environment.

I don't know if the somewhat poorer realisation of the Turtles themselves in III was down to skimping on cost, necessarily. All I know is that the Henson workshop wasn't available for that one, and I suspect the company who did make them for III would probably take a review that said, Not as good as Henson quite amiably. I don't think anyone gettable by the production could possibly have been as good as Henson. Maybe moodier lighting would have hid their faults better, Steve Barron certainly hid a lot of visible joins with good lighting in the first movie.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Musashi

I don't think anyone gettable by the production could possibly have been as good as Henson. Maybe moodier lighting would have hid their faults better, Steve Barron certainly hid a lot of visible joins with good lighting in the first movie.

Oh, Lord yes. II and III were WAY too goddamn bright. "Smoke and mirrors", dipsh*ts. Cover the flaws, don't shine a giant glaring spotlight on 'em. Wooof.

Old joke: "TMNT III ain't altogether a bad movie. Only when I look at it."

[Torterra]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

As an aside, I like the fact that the Turtles and Splinter kept the same lair from start to finish in the 1987 cartoon. I would like to see something that last more than a season or film where the Turtles don't have to relocate.

Well the 2012 turtles stayed in the same lair all the way to the end of the series. The only they left it was due to the kraang invasion after that when went back there.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

I think they relocated between Seasons 1 and 2.

The look of the lair was very inconsistent in the first two seasons. The second season in particular was just barely furnished sewer chambers.

The third season was when they settled on a consistent design heavily inspired by the look of the lair in the pilot episode but even then you got a few episodes were the turtles were in the bunk beds like the second episode. There was also the odd new room throughout the series.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Oh, Lord yes. II and III were WAY too goddamn bright. "Smoke and mirrors", dipsh*ts. Cover the flaws, don't shine a giant glaring spotlight on 'em. Wooof...

Actually, for the most part, the Turtles in movie II are quite sensibly lit, even if the effect isn't as atmospheric. The reason they (briefly) get to be seen in daylight is the director was confident the suits were able to stand up to the scrutiny, having been improved upon from I.

Well, at least something in II got to be an improvement...