New Interview with Sophie Campbell from Comicon.com

[TigerClaw]

Comicon.com has posted a new interview with Sophie Campbell talking about TMNT. You can read it here.
https://www.comicon.com/2021/01/27/t...ninja-turtles/

This bit about Tokka and Rahzar was interesting. It kind of makes you feel bad for them.

SR: The hearts of 90s Turtles fans were no doubt beating in excitement with the announcement of the arc that is set to re-introduce Tokka and Rahzar from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze. What made you want to bring them into the book and what can you say about this arc as a whole?

SC: I’d been trying to get Tokka and Rahzar into the IDW series for a while, and for a bit early on it seemed like it might not happen. I didn’t really like them that much when I was a kid, I didn’t like the comedic silly Turtles stuff at the time, until one time I revisited the movie when I was older and the characters finally clicked with me, then I was a diehard Tokka and Rahzar fan. They’re interesting to me because since they’re children, they don’t really understand what they’re doing, they don’t understand that the Foot Clan is bad, they don’t understand that Shredder (or in IDW’s case, Karai) is the bad guy, all they know is that they want to make their mama proud of them. They aren’t yet capable of having their own morality, and IDW TMNT has had a lot of morality and ethics on the part of the villains so I thought it would be fun to change it up and have a couple of antagonists who are amoral. Also the fact that they’re babies makes them a bit tragic and you don’t really want to see the Turtles (or Bebop and Rocksteady) beat them up because they don’t understand why they’re getting beaten up! And finally, they’re just really fun to draw!

[ChosenOne]

So Tokka and Rahzar are the IDW TMNT equivalent of Majin Buu. I dig it.

[Andrew NDB]

"I think their charm is how baby-like they are!" <--- while not untrue, this is a terrible case for adding more mutants (to the pile, in the case of IDW) to the world of TMNT. For me.

[Jephael]

Gotta admit, I was pretty psyched about seeing these two show up, though like Andrew says, this series has been getting really overloaded already with mutants and mystic creatures. Half the time the TMNT themselves aren't even present, and when they are, they're just in the background.

[Mutant Ninja Anole]

Now that I think about it, “Giant baby animals that wreak havoc not knowing better” is pretty much a standard kaiju trope.

[Wentos]

There are probably too many characters in the series at this point, haha.

Y-yeah, haha

[slashpieturtlemix]

I am very excited to see where she is going with this arc.

[spookycookies]

Originally Posted by slashpieturtlemix

I am very excited to see where she is going with this arc.

Spoilers Tokka & Rahzar are going to kiss

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by spookycookies

Spoilers Tokka & Rahzar are going to kiss

Spoiler: Only if they're both the same gender.

[AquaParade]

That is probably the best angle to take on them and it has potential.

[Sophie Campbell]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Spoiler: Only if they're both the same gender.

All right, settle down.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Sophie Campbell

All right, settle down.

Don't see why I should. I'm entitled to an opinion and perfectly free to discuss the comic, so long as I don't engage in any personal attacks or otherwise reproachful conduct (which I haven't). Just like everyone else.

Look, the 'Drome isn't a hive mind like Twitter. Not every single reader is going to like what you've done with the comic after the novelty wears off, and especially not for so long considering the quality content this comic gave us pre-#100 in the same two-year time span as your run. I was a fervent supporter and you know it, until I realized this is going nowhere. The second Jennika mini, which did so much with only three issues, made me realize that. Criticism comes with the territory of being a professional writer and you need to accept it. I'm not going to apologize for having an opinion. I'm not trying to be toxic, I just don't like this run anymore and choose to express myself in caustic terms because that's who I am. Yes, I will keep on reading it because that's also who I am, but only in the hopes of it ever returning to a better place. If I'm being brutally honest, and you deserve honesty after all the good things you've given us over the years instead of the exclusively pretty words you'll read on Twitter, you're a tremendous artist on par with Santolouco but not the best of writers in an ongoing format. Best when consumed in small amounts, and those I did enjoy very much. Slice of life material just doesn't lend itself well to a two-year run.

P.S. For what it's worth, you're the one who should have settled down before you got the ball rolling by attacking the forum on Twitter. Not cool.

[CyberCubed]

Missed the _____.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Slice of life material just doesn't lend itself well to a two-year run.

The Twitter thing aside... to play devil's advocate a little, is that really Sophie's fault in this particular case? If you look at her body of work, she tends to most enjoy doing certain kinds of stories from certain kinds of perspectives with a certain "look" and style. Like, looking back at Tales V2 and graphic novels like "Wet Moon" (which I've read). Point being, you kind of know what you're going to get in a Sophie Campbell story, no?

Like, if hypothetically Peter Laird had taken a break from Mirage Vol. 4 (you know, other than the one he's been on for 10 years), then hired Mark Martin to come and fill in and basically just do whatever for two years, and -- sure enough -- Mark ends up doing typically Mark Martin-type stories with cartoony wackiness and slapstick gags and all that stuff. If we're not into that stuff, should we really get mad at Mark Martin, then? No, that's absurd. He'd just have been doing what Mark Martin always does. Laird would've known what he was getting when he hired him. Like, there's people you can get mad at in this scenario... but not Mark Martin.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I mean... to play devil's advocate a little, is that really Sophie's fault in this particular case? If you look at her body of work, she tends to most enjoy doing certain kinds of stories from certain kinds of perspectives with a certain "look" and style. Like, looking back at Tales V2 and graphic novels like "Wet Moon." Point being, you kind of know what you're going to get in a Sophie Campbell story, no?

Like, if hypothetically Peter Laird had taken a break from Mirage Vol. 4 (you know, other than the one he's been on for 10 years), then hired Mark Martin to come and fill in and basically just do whatever for two years, and -- sure enough -- he ends up doing typically Mark Martin-type stories with wackiness and slapstick gags and all that stuff. Should we really get mad at Mark Martin? No, he's just doing what Mark Martin always does.

You misunderstand. I'm not mad that Sophie does what she does, because she can and has done it damn well. I'm "mad" (and not even that, more like disappointed) that she apparently can't take any criticism of her work as seen on Twitter and now here, and seems to get triggered very easily by flippant remarks about the recurring tropes in her writing. How would you have reacted if Laird or Martin had verbally attacked their detractors on social media and then confronted them directly at a forum where they gather to tell them to "settle down" as if trying to silence them just because they have a dissenting opinion? I'll say it again: not cool. And also not helping her case. I know I've done a 180, but right now I won't be sad when she leaves the ongoing.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

How would you have reacted if Laird or Martin had verbally attacked their detractors on social media and then confronted them directly at a forum where they gather to tell them to "settle down" as if trying to silence them just because they have a dissenting opinion?

That's why I went back and added the "The Twitter thing aside."

I'd be... not too happy with Mr. Martin, I think. But it would depend.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

That's why I went back and added the "The Twitter thing aside."

Sorry, didn't notice in time. But it's not just the Twitter thing, it's the general stagnant feel of the comic (especially when compared with the Jennika mini), the pushing of certain elements previously foreign to TMNT to the detriment of everything else that we care about, the announcement that this is slated to go on for several more months with no end in sight, this thing tonight... And yeah, the Twitter thing too. That's the elephant in the room that we can't ignore, much as we'd like to. Still, while I might not like this cup of tea, I'll keep sipping and deal with the aftertaste later. And I'll pretend she didn't say what she said.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'd be... not too happy with Mr. Martin, I think. lol...

But you'd be okay with Laird doing it.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

But you'd be okay with Laird doing it.

Well... heh... it's complicated. IDW isn't Peter Laird and Peter Laird isn't anything close to IDW (or anybody at it). I look at them through different lenses.

IDW? I'm not saying they're just putting out TMNT™ product, but sales and profitability/viability are big concerns as they have to be with something like this. Nobody wants the book to tank but at the same time it's not, like, some focus-grouped thing designed to maximize interest and revenue in the demographics designated with the highest profitability potential (i.e., like everything else Nick/Viacom has done with TMNT since getting the license). Though IDW is also -- essentially -- a hired (or licensed, in this case) gun for Nickelodeon/Viacom, who come into things with their own set of rules and guidelines and red tape and, really, priorities. And that isn't a slight, it's just the way it is. Now that said, a random writer or artist over there rapping my knuckles about this or that? Like, my misbehaving or something? Depending, but yeah, I'd probably have some words.

Peter Laird? People were always getting mad at him for saying stuff like, "You don't like the book (Vol. 4)? Fine by me! Don't buy it. The book is losing money anyway -- I know, it has been for a while now and I don't care. I'm just doing it now because I enjoy doing it and I can afford to just keep on printing it," and I always respected that 200% while it drove a bunch of people batty. That's a boss move. I'm not saying I agree with everything or even most of what he'd say in the lettercol, but he got to do that, at least as long as he held the rights -- he co-created the damn thing and there he was, still rolling out new books even after Kevin cashed in all of his chips back in 2000. No, I wouldn't get mad at him if he told me to "settle down," though I'd probably never "poke the bear" with him to begin with to get such a response from him.

[Leo656]

I cannot help but notice that a lot of TMNT creatives don't take criticism very well. This is not a new phenomenon. Lest we forget, Laird was using his Vol. 4 letter's column soapbox to "clap back" at people who thought his plot was boring and Lawson's pencils were bad, and that was almost 20 years ago. Since then we've seen that people like Ciro and Ant Ward likewise ALSO don't take it well when people question, critique, or otherwise take the piss out of their work.

It stands out to me because over on the He-Man forum, the dude who wrote/co-created the "New Adventures of He-Man" animated series has been a very vocal and active member for about 15 years. And "New Adventures" is, to say the least, "highly divisive" amongst that fanbase. So it's not like he hasn't endured a ton of slings and arrows about his involvement in that show (along with some praise, of course; everything is SOMEone's favorite thing). But rather than get defensive about it, or retreat from it, he owns it and takes it with gentle good humor. Other people who've written for MOTU comics and otherwise are likewise very active and vocal on the forum and don't take EVERY instance of criticism as a direct personal attack.

So it begs the question: Why are TMNT creatives so thin-skinned as a general rule? Why is it that if 15 people in a room say, "I like this book", and two or three others say "I DON'T like it, and Here's Why", those two or three people then become "The Forum" as a whole and are also in turn fair game to be vilified publicly on social media for having a dissenting opinion?

Why can the guy who wrote "New Adventures of He-Man" stick around for 15 years on a He-Man forum, with people almost daily mentioning in some form or fashion how they thought that show "sucked" and was "The worst part of the franchise", and he can laugh about it... but TMNT Pros can't? This is what I don't get. So many TMNT Pros who have been here either quit outright, attack the fanbase for having dissenting opinions, OR both.

Frankly, and to be blunt, I have to believe that in some part, it's because the TMNT "Pros" - like much of the general TMNT fanbase - are rather immature.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and I don't say this to attack anyone personally. But I can only call what I see. And what I always see from TMNT staff is, "You don't wanna collectively kiss my ass? FINE, I'll take my ball and go home, you big meanies!" And it's like... dude, it doesn't have to be like that.

I don't know. To be blunt, I think people who can't take a little constructive criticism shouldn't put themselves out there in the first place. And that's ALL I've seen from the so-called "Negatives": Constructive Criticism. "Here's What I Don't Like, and Here's What I'd Rather See." That's "hostile"? That's "negative"? That's "sexist/misogynist/whatever-ist"? WHY? Okay, some people crack jokes. That's allowed.

Paying customers have every right to speak their piece without being called names. That's what I think. And I don't know why the people who handle this specific franchise always have such a hard time being told that whatever the current flavor is doesn't sit well with some folks. Again, it's nothing new, and it's a shared trait among TMNT staff.

I just wish it wasn't.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Well... heh... it's complicated. IDW isn't Peter Laird and Peter Laird isn't anything close to IDW (or anybody at it). I look at them through different lenses.

IDW? I'm not saying they're just putting out TMNT™ product, but sales and profitability/viability are big concerns as they have to be with something like this. Nobody wants the book to tank but at the same time it's not, like, some focus-grouped thing designed to maximize interest and revenue in the demographics designated with the highest profitability potential (i.e., like everything else Nick/Viacom has done with TMNT since getting the license). Though IDW is also -- essentially -- a hired (or licensed, in this case) gun for Nickelodeon/Viacom, who come into things with their own set of rules and guidelines and red tape and, really, priorities. And that isn't a slight, it's just the way it is. Now, random writer or artist over there rapping my knuckles about this or that? Like, maybe I'm misbehaving? Yeah, I'd probably have some words.

Peter Laird? People were always getting mad at him for saying stuff like, "You don't like the book (Vol. 4)? Don't buy it. The book is losing money anyway -- I know, it has been for a while now and I don't care. I'm just doing it now because I enjoy doing it," and I always respected that while it drove a bunch of people batty. That's a boss move. He got to do that, at least as long as he held the rights. No, I wouldn't get mad at him if he told me to "settle down," though I'd probably never "poke the bear" with him to begin with to get such a response from him.

That was just a playful remark. See? That's how I roll. But I appreciate you taking the time to whip up a reply, and it's an interesting read to boot.

Hard to determine at this point who poked who first. I was always supportive of Sophie's run up until this past week, my post history and Sophie herself will attest to that. I know things were rough between her and some of the forum's denizens and I have no idea who started it but I always had her back. And then the Twitter thing soured me, and the Jennika mini came out and was so much better in much less issues than the ongoing has had so far while remaining stagnant and actually featured Null and feels like it's going somewhere as opposed to the ongoing, and now this... Not the most positive of attitudes from her. This is how one turns supporters/fans into detractors.

Speaking of tanking, I hate to make this ideological because my beef isn't about that at all but it's funny how usually any form of entertainment that turns full-blown PC starts to wither away and die sales- or ratings-wise... Food for thought.

I'll take a page out of Laird's book, then, and leave this out there to all those it may concern: You don't like my opinion? Keep walking.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Paying customers have every right to speak their piece without being called names.

This too.