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Old 02-08-2017, 03:16 PM   #81
RaphaelsIsolation
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Originally Posted by Candy Kappa View Post
So a different medium is what makes it noncanon? That's some of the dumbest stuff I've read on the 'Drome, and I've seen some **** in this place
And to all you guys trying to make me look stupid about not knowing what canon means or whatever...

This clown brought up the word "canon" and I just went with it. So maybe she doesn't know when the proper use is of the word.

Anyways...
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Old 02-08-2017, 03:51 PM   #82
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I don't think you actually do understand what canon means in this context.

The argument is whether or not TMNT 2007 takes place in the same universe as the original live action trilogy, picking up where they left off a number of years later. That is what the film was intended to be, according to its writer/director, Kevin Munroe.

You say that it is canon, yet not a part of that universe. That's an oxymoron, it can't be both. It either is, or isn't directly tied to those movies (& it was supposed to be, whether or not we agree or like that notion).

You seem to think that canon means it simply exists, but of course it does, all TMNT iterations do. It's not a matter of discrediting it as being an official entry in TMNT history, the discussion is about its validity as a pseudo-sequel to a pre-existing series.
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Old 02-08-2017, 03:55 PM   #83
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Right, but I didn't even bring "canon" into this. Candy kappa did.

So there's that. I just went along with it.

I guess maybe I wasn't specific enough, but what I meant man... is a CGI film can't be grouped together with live action movies. It might have the same continuity or whatever, but they are different.

I just separate them. 14 year gap, 0 Eastman involvement and computer movie opposed to an "actual" movie.

For me they are different. I guess the context I was stating canon wasn't making much sense, but I never brought that word into it.

Like I said.

Thanks for the reply poweder. Your artwork is insanely good as always.
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:13 PM   #84
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They replaced whole voice cast members between the existing live action movies, this seems neither here nor there.
True, but that was for contractual reasons, I'm sure. Imagi could have brought some back if they wanted to. But they didn't.

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False. The Splinter's theme/the family theme had quite a bit of audible callbacks to Splinter's theme in the first movie.
I stand corrected.

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Well yeah, it's CGI. Though I think we'd have all preferred a more lifelike, Final Fantasy: Spirits Within-kind of aesthetic, I think that was well beyond the reach of their limited budget.
I didn't mean it like that. At the very least, Splinter and the turtles could have looked more like their Henson designs.

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Leonardo, Donatello, Raphael, Michelangelo, April, Casey, Splinter. I count 7.
They are original to the comics. Circa 1984. The movie didn't come out until 1990.

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And I'm not sure they could have included Danny, or Tatsu, or Pennington any more than IDW or Nick can even if they wanted to (i.e., they legally can't). Last I heard those character rights were tied up with Golden Harvest or whatever.
Right. But imagine a Fred Wolf "follow up" series (with way different character designs and no returning voice talent) that didn't even have Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang that David Wise said was hard canon.

I bet a lot of people would argue that it wasn't in continuity.

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Irrelevant. Even the horrible live action TMNT 4 we almost got with Kirby the Campy Turtle and Julie Strain as an enchantress from another dimension wasn't going to be called TMNT 4, but be TMNT: New Generation or various other things they were throwing around. At no time was "TMNT 4" ever the title to be, in any incarnation.
Fair enough. Just seemed like they were distancing themselves from the trilogy to me.


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Lots of franchises play with time like that. A CGI TMNT 4 in 2007 set in, like, 1994 for the then-today's audience was never going to happen.
I don't see how not. Period pieces are certainly more common than sequels that blatantly ignore the passage of time.

And I think people would have loved a TMNT movie that literally took you back to the 90's, retro soundtrack and all.


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A particularly odd choice, sure, but hardly proof positive to throw out everything the director/writer has ever firmly affirmed about the film since before Day One.
Just because the creator says something retarded dosen't make it true. Peter Laird would say that The River isn't Mirage canon. Even though Sons of the Silent Age directly references it.

Anyways, Munroe also once said this in an interview:

---

AV: How does your film fit into the Turtles universe? For instance, is it more of a continuation to the first three films, or the latest TV series?

KM: You know, it’s funny. There’s so much you can do. There’s so much in the Turtles’ past, as far as adventures and stuff. So, when we first started, we were trying to find what we were going to say – what was going to be lore and what wasn’t, for the movie. At the end of the day, we realized, “Let’s just make the whole thing lore.”

Basically, they’ve lived all these adventures, and they’ve defeated all these villains. Now they find themselves without direction, because they don’t have a common enemy to fight anymore. The movie became more about a rebirth of the heroes, instead of an origin story.

---
Source:
http://animatedviews.com/2007/direct...unroe-on-tmnt/

Last edited by ToTheNines; 02-09-2017 at 03:52 AM.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:44 AM   #85
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I meant that the show itself was that, not the situation. Even when the show got serious (well, the earlier seasons), there was always an undercurrent of cheesiness to it.
The show was aimed at kids so I feel a bit of cheesiness is allowed.

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Originally Posted by RaphaelsIsolation View Post
Seriously? I never said it was non-canon.

It is canon... but it can't be grouped in with the live action movies... because it i s n ' t a
While the 2007 is canon I've never considered it part of the original movies as so much as acting as a reboot of them. To me the 2007 film takes place in a different canon. Apart from the bit at the end where it shows trophies from the previous three movies the 2007 movie never sold me on it being a fourth movie. I mean from memory it includes the Purple Dragon gang at one point to satisfy the 4Kids generation. Clearly it's not part of that universe but it does try to lean that way. For the 2007 movie to feel as though it was the fourth movie it needed to convince me more it was a sequel and not just a reboot because apart from a throwaway scene at the end nothing about it screams sequel. The film itself is called 'TMNT' which means it's the first in a new series.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:47 AM   #86
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I guess it's just easiest for me to think of the CGI Turtles as being different, though they likely experienced many of the same events as the Turtles from the live movies. Hence the trophies you see from the first three movies.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:53 AM   #87
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The trophy room scene? There are more references to Mirage than anything else.
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Old 02-09-2017, 03:53 PM   #88
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I used to, with the trophy scene. But no longer. I also used to like the film. But, once again, no longer.
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Old 02-11-2017, 06:27 AM   #89
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It should be. The same with Next Mutation. All set following the original film trilogy.
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Because the crossovers doing nothing else than messing up the timeline and other stuff of the 1987-1996 series, I've given up writing fanfiction about it. Instead, I'm trying to reboot the TMNT as many other fanfiction writers do:

Hopefully, stories will later appear at

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/968367/O...NT-Cartoon-Fan
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Old 02-11-2017, 06:37 AM   #90
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It should be. The same with Next Mutation. All set following the original film trilogy.
You definitely can't have the trilogy, Next Mutation, and 2007 in the same continuity. They're 18 in both TNM and 2007, gotta pick one or the other there.
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Old 02-11-2017, 10:49 AM   #91
Tetsu Deinonychus
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I always figured that TMNT 2007 replaces Next Mutation in the continuity.
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Old 02-11-2017, 12:07 PM   #92
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They're 18 in both TNM and 2007, gotta pick one or the other there.
They're definitely 17 in TNM (said every www.ninjaturtles.com press release/interview), and I don't recall any references to age in 2007.
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Old 02-11-2017, 03:45 PM   #93
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They're definitely 17 in TNM (said every www.ninjaturtles.com press release/interview), and I don't recall any references to age in 2007.
Ah you right, you right.

But I still say that they're incompatible continuities. One or the other can be "part 4", but not both.
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:30 PM   #94
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Or rather they are both part 4 (two alternate takes on part 4). But, neither is part 5 to the other's part 4.

(I know what you meant though, and I agree).
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:49 PM   #95
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Ah you right, you right.

But I still say that they're incompatible continuities. One or the other can be "part 4", but not both.
Correct. Though in the strictest sense, TMNT 2007 (since it came after, long after TNM) retconned TNM from ever having happened at all in the movie timeline.

That is, unless between TNM and TMNT 2007 Venus left and all the Turtles' shells and costumes went back to normal... possible, but that's pretty messy business and definitely not the intent. Though it would have been pretty funny if there was, like, Vam Mi's heart, Bonesteel's coat or the Dragonlord's helmet in the trophy scene in TMNT 2007.
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Old 02-15-2017, 03:57 PM   #96
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If they're the same, 2007 can declare why April isn't in Next Mutation.
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Because the crossovers doing nothing else than messing up the timeline and other stuff of the 1987-1996 series, I've given up writing fanfiction about it. Instead, I'm trying to reboot the TMNT as many other fanfiction writers do:

Hopefully, stories will later appear at

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/968367/O...NT-Cartoon-Fan
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:10 AM   #97
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I guess it's just easiest for me to think of the CGI Turtles as being different, though they likely experienced many of the same events as the Turtles from the live movies. Hence the trophies you see from the first three movies.
I totally agree with you on that.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:00 PM   #98
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The last official word came from Peter Laird, he said it wasn't.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:47 PM   #99
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LOL wow.

From my perspective, I like to see it from the multiverse perspective.

The First three TMNT movies are their own.
Next mutation was disowned, but now reowned. And I'd say thats the closest to TMNT 4.

TMNT 2007 is its own continuity. Now, if they decided to do a proper reboot and make it a quadrilogy, they should started with the shredder. BUT they decided not to because of the 2003 cartoon series.

They wanted everyone to have some sort of connection - old fans and new fans, so they disperse a bunch easter eggs or references, so that its unclear.



Could you imagine the first three films redone in the imagi style? I think that would have been pretty awesome, I liked the imagi version of the turtles.
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Old 04-02-2017, 07:50 AM   #100
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The last official word came from Peter Laird, he said it wasn't.
Source?
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