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Old 03-02-2017, 03:06 PM   #41
Andrew NDB
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Originally Posted by sgtfbomb View Post
But that is just one incarnation of TMNT. I know a lot of people love the Mirage stuff, but the franchise has moved on from their "violent foundations"
It's not "just one." It's the source material. And it hasn't "moved on" from it, it's devolved into and remained baby food. Baby food that just keeps on recycling itself, over and over again.

I say...



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and even if they did a movie based on Mirage, it doesn't make it a good movie.
Nothing really guarantees a good movie. Though making a movie based on Mirage is the one stone they've left unturned. And yes, that's including the 1990 movie.

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The TMNT film franchise doesn't need grit and violence.
Not even when, you know, they're fighting other ninjas? Bizarre. So what, camp and slapstick and tons of jokey stuff as they're fighting (ala, if there were 4 Spider-Mans on a team or something), then?

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It needs reverence towards what matters, the characters, not what society thinks the Ninja Turtles are (Krang, Technodrome, Cowabunga, Bebop and Rocksteady, etc.). It needs filmmakers who treat them as actual living being with souls, and so far that has only happened once... in 1990.
Well, true there. I just don't see how what you're describing precludes in any way "grit and violence" where appropriate. They're not guidance counselors, they're ninja.
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Old 03-02-2017, 03:34 PM   #42
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knew this had to be a Fan production going by the title! still pretty awsome tho even if it isnt going ahead

just wish hollywood would go back to using animatronic suits and trying to make a proper film that would appeal to an older demgrapic rather than a kids toy Com
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Old 03-02-2017, 04:30 PM   #43
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How does not being gritty instantly mean full-on camp? I think you're assuming I want something childlike and I am assuming you want something like Sin City.

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Old 03-09-2017, 09:36 AM   #44
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Sounds... about right. And I would stress, "a good amount of humor, consistent with the type and extent of humor in the Kevin & Peter issues of the Mirage series."
The humour in those comics was satirical, witty and self-referential so if they it the humour that way yeah it would be fine.

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Even serious movies can have G ratings. Look at Watership Down. A movie like that would probably be PG-13, or even R these days, but in the 70's, it was a G! Rabbits tearing each other to shreds! A seagull dropping the F-bomb, humans gassing and burying warrens with the rabbits still inside so they can use the land. A family picture!
Some of the darkest, most amazing movies have been ones for kids. If you're mentioning Watership Down as a film example I'll add Animals of Farthing Wood for TV. Den of Geek recently said in an article The Walking Dead has nothing on that cartoon series and they're not wrong!

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How does not being gritty instantly mean full-on camp? I think you're assuming I want something childlike and I am assuming you want something like Sin City.
You've got to have a good balance without a shifting tone. The Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies managed that great.
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:45 AM   #45
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Oh god, I forgot to mention Farthing Wood! The first fandom I joined on the internet! Now there was some family friendly violence.
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Old 03-09-2017, 10:27 AM   #46
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Oh god, I forgot to mention Farthing Wood! The first fandom I joined on the internet! Now there was some family friendly violence.
In retrospect it was a pretty violent kids cartoon.
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Old 03-09-2017, 10:35 AM   #47
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Oh god, I forgot to mention Farthing Wood! The first fandom I joined on the internet! Now there was some family friendly violence.
In retrospect it was a pretty violent kids cartoon.
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:06 AM   #48
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To be fair, in the 70s, the G rating didn't mean "family friendly." It was more of a general rating. Around the 80s, it sort of became the kids movie rating.

Remember how PG was in the 80s? PG-13 movies TODAY have nothing on PG movies from the 80s. Raiders of the Lost Ark had people's faces melting off. Poltergeist had a scene where a man rips off his face. Ghostbusters had a fellatio joke. Mid-70s Jaws had Quint spewing out blood while he was being munched on. It just meant "Parental Guidance," meaning "well, you can take your kids to this movie, but you might want to think about it."
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:35 AM   #49
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Andrew, I typically agree with all your statements regarding tmnt movies.

The one exception being the first movie not being in the spirit of Mirage.
To me, it captures the tone of the first volume pretty damn well. It's not a perfect Mirage adaption but it's pretty damn close.
Even Kevin seems to think so. Now, I'm not trying to rely on someone else's opinion, but he did create the turtles (sure, his world is not 100% dependable, but I think he's sincere with this one).

I'd love to see the TMNT movie you want though. I'm sure there are other ways of interpreting the Mirage comics, and I would like to have a stronger focus on the cycle of revenge that plays into Mirage heavily.

To sum up, yeah, I do think we could have an even more direct representation of Mirage. Boy would I love that. Baron's film captures the most important elements to me though, aside from taking a vicious look at the cycle of revenge (and the violence that would accompany this). Is that the key ingredient for you, or is there something else?
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:58 AM   #50
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Andrew, I typically agree with all your statements regarding tmnt movies.

The one exception being the first movie not being in the spirit of Mirage.
To me, it captures the tone of the first volume pretty damn well. It's not a perfect Mirage adaption but it's pretty damn close.
Not really at all. It's "Danny: The Movie, Starring Darth Shredder and his Halfway House for Troubled Youths." Complete with Dude Mikey. None of that crap is in the comics. And the Turtles don't do much of anything aside from cracking jokes, eating pizza and getting their asses kicked a couple times, and then losing to Shredder in the climax.

Now, every movie since has been progressively way worse, but I don't think it's fair to elevate TMNT 1990 to some kind of level of comic book perfection simply by virtue of comparing it to them. TMNT 1990 was a great film and a good TMNT film... but you're fooling yourself if you don't see that they still sold themselves way short.

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Even Kevin seems to think so.
Kevin thinks a lot of things. No matter what the TMNT project is, that is "the best TMNT thing ever!!!"

I'm sure there's folks around here that remember before it came out how much he was raving about how NT:TNM was going to feature Turtles that are so much "older and grittier," and it'll be awesome. And how TMNT 2014 was going to blow our socks off with its The Raid-style fighting and how faithful it would be.

http://www.thenational.ae/blogs/scen...-kevin-eastman

Yeah, according to Kevin, the Platinum Dunes movies possess "the darker edge of the comic books."

He's a great guy but his opinion on TMNT projects is kind of meaningless.

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Baron's film captures the most important elements to me though, aside from taking a vicious look at the cycle of revenge (and the violence that would accompany this). Is that the key ingredient for you, or is there something else?
The self-defeating cycle of vengeance, absolutely. That's intrinsic to where the Turtles are "coming from," spiritually. And going. And then need to reevaluate. Not just barely mentioned in passing before Dude Mikey burps or makes a fart joke or something to re-lighten things.

Violence itself? That's an element, sure. There are moments of earnest fighting in TMNT 1990, but mostly it's injected with so much slapstick and sight gags that's it hard to take any of it seriously. Even when it semi tries to be serious, it's just "block block kick," every time. Seriously. Watch it again. Again, of course it's a lot worse in every movie since then, but that virtue alone doesn't mean that TMNT 1990 was like this epitome of "gritty violence."

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Old 03-16-2017, 10:39 AM   #51
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Remember how PG was in the 80s? PG-13 movies TODAY have nothing on PG movies from the 80s. Raiders of the Lost Ark had people's faces melting off. Poltergeist had a scene where a man rips off his face. Ghostbusters had a fellatio joke. Mid-70s Jaws had Quint spewing out blood while he was being munched on.
In the UK Poltergeist was never a PG, it was a 15. To gain a PG Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom had to have the heart scene cut out, Jaws was rated pretty much an 18 although this dropped over the years to a 12. Ghostbusters is the only one that was a PG in the US and remained that way over here without edits for the cinema/video releases.

The original Star Wars trilogy were all PG's in the cinema, in the UK they all got a U rating.

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He's a great guy but his opinion on TMNT projects is kind of meaningless.
Sorry did you just say the opinions the co-creator of TMNT are meaningless?

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Violence itself? That's an element, sure. There are moments of earnest fighting in TMNT 1990, but mostly it's injected with so much slapstick and sight gags that's it hard to take any of it seriously. Even when it semi tries to be serious, it's just "block block kick," every time. Seriously. Watch it again. Again, of course it's a lot worse in every movie since then, but that virtue alone doesn't mean that TMNT 1990 was like this epitome of "gritty violence."
I think the 1990 movie replicated the level of violence from the comics just right. I'm not sure how you could want a more faithful representation without the movie being unfaithful to the source material?
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Old 03-16-2017, 11:08 AM   #52
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I think the 1990 movie replicated the level of violence from the comics just right. I'm not sure how you could want a more faithful representation without the movie being unfaithful to the source material?
That's insane. Step 1: pull your head out of your ass. Next, rewatch TMNT 1990. Now re-read TMNT Vol. 1 #1 or #10 or the Leonardo special.

Yeah... very, very different sort of violence. TMNT 1990 is all "block-block-kick," with them barely KOing Foot Soldiers amidst camp, slapstick, and sight gags. In the comics they are stabbing, slicing and visibly murdering them.
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Old 03-16-2017, 11:13 AM   #53
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I think the 1990 movie replicated the level of violence from the comics just right.
Perhaps.

Then again...

Spoiler:
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Old 03-16-2017, 11:17 AM   #54
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Sorry did you just say the opinions the co-creator of TMNT are meaningless?
He's talking about how the PD movies had "the darker edge of the comic books." according to Kevin Eastman, which is a rather odd thing to say seeing how they lacked any edge.

Hell, it wasn't even a toned down adaptation of the comics like the 1990 movie or the 4Kids cartoon, it was more like failed attempt to turn the Fred Wolf cartoon (an in name only adaptation) into a live-action series.


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I think the 1990 movie replicated the level of violence from the comics just right. I'm not sure how you could want a more faithful representation without the movie being unfaithful to the source material?
Uhm... The movie's violence was rather cartoony compared to the comic's. Compare the apartment fight in both for a good example.

Spoiler:













But let's pretend the violence was on point, what else could be different to make it more accurate?
  1. No Danny
  2. Leave Nagi in there
  3. April's profession
  4. Tone down the way the turtles acted
Those are the big ones, I could add more.
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Turtles is basically the red-headed stepchild of Nick.
Hahahaha!
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Old 03-16-2017, 11:39 AM   #55
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What if it was a precise recreation of the original Mirage series? What if the violence was there? What if April's profession was there? What if there was no Danny character?

Is that all it takes to make or break a TMNT movie? Being a 100% adaptation of the source material? What if everything else about it -- the score, the acting, the casting, the screenplay, the dialogue, the direction -- was terrible?
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Old 03-16-2017, 11:45 AM   #56
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Is that all it takes to make or break a TMNT movie? Being a 100% adaptation of the source material?
Not at all.
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Old 03-16-2017, 11:56 AM   #57
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What if it was a precise recreation of the original Mirage series? What if the violence was there? What if April's profession was there? What if there was no Danny character?

Is that all it takes to make or break a TMNT movie? Being a 100% adaptation of the source material? What if everything else about it -- the score, the acting, the casting, the screenplay, the dialogue, the direction -- was terrible?
Being a good movie is of course the number one priority and a "precise recreation of the original Mirage series" would have a rather bizarre sequence of events, but why shouldn't someone strive to make what's both a more accurate adaptation and a good movie as well?
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Turtles is basically the red-headed stepchild of Nick.
Hahahaha!
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Old 03-16-2017, 12:00 PM   #58
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What if it was a precise recreation of the original Mirage series? What if the violence was there? What if April's profession was there? What if there was no Danny character?
More violence woulda been nice. Mirage April would have been unnecessary, reporter worked for this story. I really wish Danny didn't exist. But I assume he was there for budget reasons, since the Turtle suits could be problematic and they wore out often.

If they had to keep the turtles' screen time in check, I sure would have liked a more Casey and April focused story than that little brat.
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Old 03-23-2017, 11:39 AM   #59
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That's insane. Step 1: pull your head out of your ass. Next, rewatch TMNT 1990. Now re-read TMNT Vol. 1 #1 or #10 or the Leonardo special. Okay but if you pulled your head from your ass you'd see that was the best they could do without going overboard. As I said they did a pretty good job of replicating the story from the comics and maybe I'm wrong but I don't recall the Turtles killing anybody at least not humans.
Again your idea of what Turtles should be is different to what appeared in the comics, mostly anyway.
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Uhm... The movie's violence was rather cartoony compared to the comic's. Compare the apartment fight in both for a good example.
It was pretty accurate in style and tone. Obviously a lot of those images were difficult to replicate in the time they had but as a movie translation of the Mirage comic not bad at all.
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Old 03-23-2017, 12:24 PM   #60
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It was pretty accurate in style and tone. Obviously a lot of those images were difficult to replicate in the time they had but as a movie translation of the Mirage comic not bad at all.
Where in the comic's version was the nunchaku contest, aquarium dipping or cymbal attack?
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