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Old 05-07-2017, 01:53 PM   #1
Panda_Kahn_fan
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Unite behind a reboot-a change of heart

You know what? I've been on the fence for this for years. But recently, I've been coming more and more of the opinion that the fandom needs to unite behind a single concept for a TMNT reboot. I know we all would like our own little ideas on what a TMNT movie should be. Well, I think we should all try to push the powers that be with a single vision for Ninja Turtles; a gritty, hard, edge of the line riding PG-13-film trilogy, based on Mirage, with martial arts, vengeance, and violence.

Why am I, an avid IDW/Archie fan who's been indifferent to Mirage, pushing for something based (mostly) on the source material? Because I'm sick of the maltreatment of the turtles. I hated what bay did to them, and something based on the original comics would at least be entertaining, and a step up from four Shreks who learned martial arts from a book. And what of the goal of getting the Fred Wolf characters in a film? As bad as the movie was, we got that goal, mission accomplished; Krang, Rocksteady, Bebop, and Vernon have made it to the big screen. We can always pull those DVD/blu-rays out, and see our favorite childhood characters now, and nobody can take that away. Now, it's time to bring some dignity back to the TMNT, and I think Mirage might be the right way forward.

The time is ripe; next years new cartoon might reignite TMNT interest, and it's painfully obvious Micheal Bay and Platinum Dunes have washed their hands of the franchise after OOtS tanked. We know there are people from Viacom watching this board. If the fandom could put aside the 'I want the movie based on this version, I want a movie based on that version!" And try to present a single list of wants for a tmnt film, there is a small, thin, slim chance something might tickle back to the bean counters in power? Now, would something like that change their mind? Of course not! The online fandom is a tiny sliver of their profit margin, it's money that talks to those people, action figures and merchandise. But if a small number of voices could get them glance in that direction, we might all get what we want; box office profit from the adult TMNT fans from a martial arts flick, and toys and merchandise and fast food kids meals from the cartoon.

So, let's see a mirage vol.1 inspired film trilogy. Give us an expanded origin, return to New York, and city at war. Work in Baxter and his mousers, work in Rat King, and Work in Leatherhead somewhere (heck, have him take Zog's place in RtNY, I don't care) The masks? Avoid the whole question, make them black, or something, or whatever. Borrow from other versions if it enhances the story, like reincarnation from IDW. But make a TMNT movie that feels like TMNT, and make it GOOD.

Look, I know this post probably won't unite this fandom, and it probably won't have any affect at all. For making this post I will probably be laughed at, insulted, or worse. I made this post for myself, to get this off my chest after all the arguments, the flame wars, and crud I've seen go on in this fanbase, while the studio churned out two cruddy movies. I'm not a plant, I don't have an agenda, and I don't' care if there are already a million threads talking about this I could've posted in. I wanted to say my piece on the subject of TMNT movies, and I have done so. So in short... I've changed my mind, and let's all unite for a TMNT based on the original work. That is all.
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Old 05-07-2017, 02:21 PM   #2
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You know what? I've been on the fence for this for years. But recently, I've been coming more and more of the opinion that the fandom needs to unite behind a single concept for a TMNT reboot. I know we all would like our own little ideas on what a TMNT movie should be. Well, I think we should all try to push the powers that be with a single vision for Ninja Turtles; a gritty, hard, edge of the line riding PG-13-film trilogy, based on Mirage, with martial arts, vengeance, and violence.

Why am I, an avid IDW/Archie fan who's been indifferent to Mirage, pushing for something based (mostly) on the source material? Because I'm sick of the maltreatment of the turtles. I hated what bay did to them, and something based on the original comics would at least be entertaining, and a step up from four Shreks who learned martial arts from a book. And what of the goal of getting the Fred Wolf characters in a film? As bad as the movie was, we got that goal, mission accomplished; Krang, Rocksteady, Bebop, and Vernon have made it to the big screen. We can always pull those DVD/blu-rays out, and see our favorite childhood characters now, and nobody can take that away. Now, it's time to bring some dignity back to the TMNT, and I think Mirage might be the right way forward.

The time is ripe; next years new cartoon might reignite TMNT interest, and it's painfully obvious Micheal Bay and Platinum Dunes have washed their hands of the franchise after OOtS tanked. We know there are people from Viacom watching this board. If the fandom could put aside the 'I want the movie based on this version, I want a movie based on that version!" And try to present a single list of wants for a tmnt film, there is a small, thin, slim chance something might tickle back to the bean counters in power? Now, would something like that change their mind? Of course not! The online fandom is a tiny sliver of their profit margin, it's money that talks to those people, action figures and merchandise. But if a small number of voices could get them glance in that direction, we might all get what we want; box office profit from the adult TMNT fans from a martial arts flick, and toys and merchandise and fast food kids meals from the cartoon.

So, let's see a mirage vol.1 inspired film trilogy. Give us an expanded origin, return to New York, and city at war. Work in Baxter and his mousers, work in Rat King, and Work in Leatherhead somewhere (heck, have him take Zog's place in RtNY, I don't care) The masks? Avoid the whole question, make them black, or something, or whatever. Borrow from other versions if it enhances the story, like reincarnation from IDW. But make a TMNT movie that feels like TMNT, and make it GOOD.

Look, I know this post probably won't unite this fandom, and it probably won't have any affect at all. For making this post I will probably be laughed at, insulted, or worse. I made this post for myself, to get this off my chest after all the arguments, the flame wars, and crud I've seen go on in this fanbase, while the studio churned out two cruddy movies. I'm not a plant, I don't have an agenda, and I don't' care if there are already a million threads talking about this I could've posted in. I wanted to say my piece on the subject of TMNT movies, and I have done so. So in short... I've changed my mind, and let's all unite for a TMNT based on the original work. That is all.
I agree with most of this except bandanas need to be red and no need for an expanded origin. An opening credits origin: kid with bowl of turtles, truck swerves to avoid a pothole or whatever, ooze canister knocks bowl from kids hands and both end up in sewer... roll credits. Then start the film. The original films could even be a rough prequel so it doesn't have to rehash the origin & Shredder. Like Superman Returns used the first 2 films as kind of a prequel to itself. City at War would make an awesome story for a film and could cover 2 films and the third could go the Image series route.

Cowabunga. Lol.
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Old 05-07-2017, 03:46 PM   #3
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1. Have the 4 Turtles be Actual Characters with their dialogue, emotions, and how they specifically relate to one another (whether on how Mikey & Raph relate to each other, Don & Leo, etc.)...not '1 Dimensional Caricatures'.
2. Have Actual Martial Arts in well-choreographed fashion.
3. Have a movie where it's just the 4 turtles. No April. No Casey. Nothing. You don't need a 'human element' or POV for the audience. Make us see the world through THEIR eyes and POV.
4. The designs of the first two TMNT '90s films are great and were fine. If you want to use new FX/new technology to do them & perhaps enhance them a bit to give a little more differences between each Turtle? That's fine.


Is it hard to do just those 4 things?
Get those 4 things right, and you have something.
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Old 05-07-2017, 04:19 PM   #4
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I would rally behind such a thing. A full about-face is the only real thing they haven't tried.

If such a thing became a movie, the marketing could be amazing, and even drive IDW's reprint sales. "Meet the Original TMNT" docs, viral spots, etc.. Turn the whole idea of what the TMNT are and could be on its head to regular folks, and blow their minds.
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:20 PM   #5
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Mostly, I agree with all of you. Except we need April there, she's as much a part of the story as the turtles. And personally, the trilogy I think would be best is; Return to New York, Fugitoid arc, then City at War. Those are the three biggest volume one stories, and those are the stories from mirage most fans of other iterations are the most familiar with. And Leatherhead, Rat King, Baxter and the mousers absolutely must be worked in, even if just in minor roles; fans of all versions have been waiting too long for all of those characters. Red Bandannas could be fine, but I think black bandannas would avoid the 'four raphs' question altogether, and makes them feel more people's expectations of 'ninja'.
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:27 PM   #6
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Mostly, I agree with all of you. Except we need April there, she's as much a part of the story as the turtles. And personally, the trilogy I think would be best is; Return to New York, Fugitoid arc, then City at War. Those are the three biggest volume one stories, and those are the stories from mirage most fans of other iterations are the most familiar with. And Leatherhead, Rat King, Baxter and the mousers absolutely must be worked in, even if just in minor roles; fans of all versions have been waiting too long for all of those characters. Red Bandannas could be fine, but I think black bandannas would avoid the 'four raphs' question altogether, and makes them feel more people's expectations of 'ninja'.
That's all fine with me.

Me, I'd be grudgingly OK with the rainbow bandannas (pick your battles, you know, though the last thing TMNT on the big screen needs is a half measure... it needs to go all-in to escape the gravity well of the PD films' brown hole) as long as there's at least a bit with the all-reds.

i.e., big battle scene and the Turtles put on all red bandannas. They're whooshing around a factory/warehouse, trying to get the drop on a room full of like 20, 30 guys. Lights are flickering. The Turtles keep, I dunno, popping out and throwing shuriken at the bad guys (think, the dock scene in Batman Begins, but shuriken and blood and weapons strikes instead of fists and rope). It starts to go on a bit, and the bad guys really freak out, seeing all these red bandannas popping up, disappearing, and popping up again... "How many of them are there??" "I think I got one... sh**, there he is again!" "What happened to Larry? Where'd he go?" "There's ****ing HUNDREDS of them!!! GAHHH!!!" "AHHH!!!" Until they're all picked off.

I think that could be pretty awesome.

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Old 05-08-2017, 02:41 PM   #7
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Yeah, I'd be behind a Mirage based film and would give it my full support.
All these ideas sound great.
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:46 PM   #8
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The only one that's going to be a glaring problem is going to be 'return to New York'. Although the 1990 film was not a faithful adaptation of this mirage story arc, it shares enough plot points and similarities to 'return to new york' (the Rooftop battle, the antique store burning, flight to the farmhouse, soul searching, and a return for a final fight with shredder), that any attempt to do an adaptation will forever be in the 1990's film's shadow. Even if you did a line-by line scene by scene adaptation of the comic story, the public who've seen the first film will make the comparisons; and any RNTY film they make will forever been seen as a 1990 remake. An adaptation will have to concentrate on the elements the 1990 film omitted, and put it together in a way that feels different than the 1990 film, even if it means making changes to the narrative from mirage.
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:51 PM   #9
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The only one that's going to be a glaring problem is going to be 'return to New York'. Although the 1990 film was not a faithful adaptation of this mirage story arc, it shares enough plot points and similarities to 'return to new york' (the Rooftop battle, the antique store burning, flight to the farmhouse, soul searching, and a return for a final fight with shredder), that any attempt to do an adaptation will forever be in the 1990's film's shadow. Even if you did a line-by line scene by scene adaptation of the comic story, the public who've seen the first film will make the comparisons; and any RNTY film they make will forever been seen as a 1990 remake. An adaptation will have to concentrate on the elements the 1990 film omitted, and put it together in a way that feels different than the 1990 film, even if it means making changes to the narrative from mirage.
The 1990 movie rutted around way more in the Leonardo special, #10, and #11 than anything in "Return to New York." The only RTNY element in it is them physically departing the farmhouse (and not even in remotely the same way), everything else is different.

But who cares? It'd be 30, maybe 35 years after TMNT 1990 by the time a reboot movie comes out.
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:54 PM   #10
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That's all fine with me.

Me, I'd be grudgingly OK with the rainbow bandannas (pick your battles, you know, though the last thing TMNT on the big screen needs is a half measure... it needs to go all-in to escape the gravity well of the PD films' brown hole) as long as there's at least a bit with the all-reds.

i.e., big battle scene and the Turtles put on all red bandannas. They're whooshing around a factory/warehouse, trying to get the drop on a room full of like 20, 30 guys. Lights are flickering. The Turtles keep, I dunno, popping out and throwing shuriken at the bad guys (think, the dock scene in Batman Begins, but shuriken and blood and weapons strikes instead of fists and rope). It starts to go on a bit, and the bad guys really freak out, seeing all these red bandannas popping up, disappearing, and popping up again... "How many of them are there??" "I think I got one... sh**, there he is again!" "What happened to Larry? Where'd he go?" "There's ****ing HUNDREDS of them!!! GAHHH!!!" "AHHH!!!" Until they're all picked off.

I think that could be pretty awesome.
That's sounds fun. And reminds me of the final fight in Three Amigos, which was cool.
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Old 05-08-2017, 03:05 PM   #11
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The 1990 movie rutted around way more in the Leonardo special, #10, and #11 than anything in "Return to New York." The only RTNY element in it is them physically departing the farmhouse (and not even in remotely the same way), everything else is different.

But who cares? It'd be 30, maybe 35 years after TMNT 1990 by the time a reboot movie comes out.
Yeah, I always mistakenly count that as part of the RtnY story because it is an important lead-in to the events of that story. An adaptation would have to touch on the events leading up to it, meaning the leo micro, exile to Northampton, etc. Everything there would have to be streamlined, and told in a way that made sense for a film.
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Old 05-08-2017, 03:10 PM   #12
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i.e., big battle scene and the Turtles put on all red bandannas. They're whooshing around a factory/warehouse, trying to get the drop on a room full of like 20, 30 guys. Lights are flickering. The Turtles keep, I dunno, popping out and throwing shuriken at the bad guys (think, the dock scene in Batman Begins, but shuriken and blood and weapons strikes instead of fists and rope). It starts to go on a bit, and the bad guys really freak out, seeing all these red bandannas popping up, disappearing, and popping up again... "How many of them are there??" "I think I got one... sh**, there he is again!" "What happened to Larry? Where'd he go?" "There's ****ing HUNDREDS of them!!! GAHHH!!!" "AHHH!!!" Until they're all picked off.

I think that could be pretty awesome.
Could definitely go for that. While I like them each having their own preferred color in more typical situations, all wearing the same tone - esp red that could denote they mean serious business - is a good battle strategy to throw off their targets.

I think this was brought up before while discussing the Nick show a while back. I suppose they sort of went for that idea by all wearing black when they took down Shredder, but I'd like to see the red used, both for classic reasons and the relation of the color to blood, war, etc. Maybe even brand one tail of the fabric with a Hamato clan or other symbol.

(But then I also want it juxtaposed by them later seen at home, back in their individual colors, and a completely different lovable side of them as a family purposely in sharp contrast.)
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Old 05-11-2017, 11:26 AM   #13
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Well, I think we should all try to push the powers that be with a single vision for Ninja Turtles; a gritty, hard, edge of the line riding PG-13-film trilogy, based on Mirage, with martial arts, vengeance, and violence.
Not everyone fan wants gritty and hard violence so I think you just highlighted why fandom can't get behind one concept.
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Old 05-11-2017, 01:30 PM   #14
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Not everyone fan wants gritty and hard violence so I think you just highlighted why fandom can't get behind one concept.
Thats really the only version fans have yet to see... the 90s fiom wasn't very violent or as dark as it could have been... I'd much rather a netflix series.... spanning volume ones Eastman & Laird stuff... then branch out from there...
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Old 05-11-2017, 01:39 PM   #15
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Thats really the only version fans have yet to see... the 90s fiom wasn't very violent or as dark as it could have been... I'd much rather a netflix series.... spanning volume ones Eastman & Laird stuff... then branch out from there...
Yeah, I'd be more than OK with a balls-out Netflix series. Give us that, then they can release all the PD-like babyish stuff in the theaters they want.
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Old 05-11-2017, 02:32 PM   #16
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And Leatherhead, Rat King, Baxter and the mousers absolutely must be worked in, even if just in minor roles; fans of all versions have been waiting too long for all of those characters.
We already got Baxter in OOTS, it was a crappy version of Baxter but still.
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Old 05-11-2017, 02:37 PM   #17
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We already got Baxter in OOTS, it was a crappy version of Baxter but still.
Yeah, time for characters who have not been seen to get a shot to shine... no need for Shredder or Krang or Bebop & Rocksteady... can go with a loose timeline of the precious movies as having happened (the 90s ones) where its not really referenced but not wholly contradicted either... some mousers would be cool though...
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Old 05-11-2017, 11:54 PM   #18
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Yeah, the only reason I want to see Baxter again, is so we can finally get mousers. And one thing I don't think is necessary is following the mirage stories beat for beat. You can restructure the story to fit a movie format, or borrow elements or characters from other mirage stories to work. For example, meeting April and the Saki/yoshi/mutation backstory could be worked into return to NY in flashbacks. One thing I even did when coming up with my own outline for the fugitoid arc, was work Jhanna in as a prisoner in the triceriton gladitorial arena that the Tmnt team up with to escape, and join them for the rest of the film. Yeah yeah I know she was from the 'battle for planetary leader' arc in the comics, but she made a good fighter/supporting character for my outline. The important the is getting the meaning and themes of the comics without watering them down, copy-pasting every single scene and dialogue snippet is not important.
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Old 05-12-2017, 06:57 AM   #19
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Yeah, the only reason I want to see Baxter again, is so we can finally get mousers. And one thing I don't think is necessary is following the mirage stories beat for beat. You can restructure the story to fit a movie format, or borrow elements or characters from other mirage stories to work. For example, meeting April and the Saki/yoshi/mutation backstory could be worked into return to NY in flashbacks. One thing I even did when coming up with my own outline for the fugitoid arc, was work Jhanna in as a prisoner in the triceriton gladitorial arena that the Tmnt team up with to escape, and join them for the rest of the film. Yeah yeah I know she was from the 'battle for planetary leader' arc in the comics, but she made a good fighter/supporting character for my outline. The important the is getting the meaning and themes of the comics without watering them down, copy-pasting every single scene and dialogue snippet is not important.
I'd personally like to not see yet another version of the origin... If they roll a silent origin in the opening credits say an animation of issue ones origin panel for panel... Maybe a screech of tires, some breaking glass and a kid crying "my four baby turtles" and then a splash of green and then end credits... Anyone who WANTS an origin can then go find one of the various reprints of issue #1.... Or a tpb... Also a note to find their local comic book store in the end credits would be good... But superhero movies do not have to always give the origin... Most viewers have an idea already... Move past that and tell a great story.
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Old 05-16-2017, 02:19 PM   #20
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I'd personally like to not see yet another version of the origin... If they roll a silent origin in the opening credits say an animation of issue ones origin panel for panel... Maybe a screech of tires, some breaking glass and a kid crying "my four baby turtles" and then a splash of green and then end credits... Anyone who WANTS an origin can then go find one of the various reprints of issue #1.... Or a tpb... Also a note to find their local comic book store in the end credits would be good... But superhero movies do not have to always give the origin... Most viewers have an idea already... Move past that and tell a great story.
I'd love to see them do something like that. The origin can be minimized, told very quickly to move onto the main story.

Also, when it comes to city at war, I don't think it should be adaptable as is, plot wise. Yes, keep all of the fighting and violence, but I don't think a lot of the elements would work without the context of being a comic book story arc would translate over to a self contained film. I know most people don't' like the 4kids version of City at War, but I think having Hun and His purple Dragons vs. the mob vs. the foot in a no holds barred bloodbath for control of the city, would be more interesting than foot vs. Foot vs. foot. Keep the Splinter-rat king scenes from the comic as-is, and you could make a really violent, action-packed film!
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