A Rumination on the DCEU

[Krutch]

I'd still prefer a hard reset.

-Release Justice League part 1.
-Finish/release Aquaman since its already shooting.
-Release Justice League part 2 as the conclusion to this universe.

Reset, then try again.

Sorry but as good as Wonder Woman is, it's not worth preserving a broken universe over. There's no fixing who this universe has established is Superman, Batman, Joker... it's all a mess.

The only highpoints of this universe are Wonder Woman, Harley Quinn, and Hans Zimmer's scores. 1/4 isn't a good start. And considering Zack's involvement in Justice League, they're looking to be batting 1/5 in just a few months unless Whedon can churn out a miracle.

Reset.

Keep Whedon.

Get some other strong filmmakers in there and attach them to the right properties like Sam Mendez & Superman, Sam Raimi & The Flash... Hell, you could probably even lure J.J Abrams to return to space for Green Lantern.

But regardless of fantasy booking directors, just hit the damn reset button and cut their losses already.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Krutch

Hell, you could probably even lure J.J Abrams to return to space for Green Lantern.

**shudder**

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Krutch

Sorry but as good as Wonder Woman is, it's not worth preserving a broken universe over. There's no fixing who this universe has established is Superman, Batman, Joker... it's all a mess.
.

There's nothing wrong with Affleck's Batman assuming he wants to continue the role, and there's no way WB will recast Wonder Woman anytime soon. If you think they're really going to drop Gal Gadot just because people don't like the current universe, that's just crazy. She literally just became the defining version of Wonder Woman for a new generation.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

**shudder**

I'm with you here. NEVER let JJ Abrams touch ANYTHING you don't want to kill all heart and depth.

The man's a hack.

[Spike Spiegel]

Given some of the source material, why not have a "Flashpoint" or "Crisis" type of event that smooths the rough edges off of this series of adaptations?

The flashbacks in BvS hinted at the possibility of time travel, after all.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel

Given some of the source material, why not have a "Flashpoint" or "Crisis" type of event that smooths the rough edges off of this series of adaptations?

Eh... a Geoff Johns type of event, in other words? No. The actual damage to the universe isn't such that we need to Geoffcon it.

I mean, what actually is the damage we need to repair? Batman murdering people in BvS? Sure. What else? Stuff like crappy Luthor Jr. has built-in escape hatches (just introduce Luthor Sr., voila).

[Krutch]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

There's nothing wrong with Affleck's Batman assuming he wants to continue the role, and there's no way WB will recast Wonder Woman anytime soon. If you think they're really going to drop Gal Gadot just because people don't like the current universe, that's just crazy. She literally just became the defining version of Wonder Woman for a new generation.

Again, I'm not saying she isn't. I'm saying is they've done way too much wrong than right at this point. Start over. If you want to keep Gadot around and just make her do solo adventures to appease the masses, by all means. But just having a solid Wonder Woman isn't enough.

And I liked Ben, too. Unfortunately, his Batman as written is beyond redemption.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I'm with you here. NEVER let JJ Abrams touch ANYTHING you don't want to kill all heart and depth.

The man's a hack.

I actually meant the Abrams remark as more a joke than anything else

[Spike Spiegel]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Eh... a Geoff Johns type of event, in other words? No. The actual damage to the universe isn't such that we need to Geoffcon it.

I mean, what actually is the damage we need to repair? Batman murdering people in BvS? Sure. What else? Stuff like crappy Luthor Jr. has built-in escape hatches (just introduce Luthor Sr., voila).

Honestly, the only thing I really find truly, irredeemably detestable is Joker's ridiculous tattoos and wardrobe (as well as how he is portrayed). Half-decent writing can develop the characters properly, if they stay the course that Wonder Woman seems to have started.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Krutch

Again, I'm not saying she isn't. I'm saying is they've done way too much wrong than right at this point. Start over. If you want to keep Gadot around and just make her do solo adventures to appease the masses, by all means. But just having a solid Wonder Woman isn't enough.

And I liked Ben, too. Unfortunately, his Batman as written is beyond redemption.

I actually meant the Abrams remark as more a joke than anything else

Just because Bruce was gonna straight up murder Superman?

I take my JJ Abrams antipathy extremely seriously.

[Krutch]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I take my JJ Abrams antipathy extremely seriously.

Hey, I get ya I think as a filmmaker, he's one of the competent ones. He certainly understands character better than the bulk of blockbuster directors out there.

But as far as having an original thought? ....Nnnnewp!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Krutch

Hey, I get ya I think as a filmmaker, he's one of the competent ones. He certainly understands character better than the bulk of blockbuster directors out there.

But as far as having an original thought? ....Nnnnewp!

I also have a limited pool of what I've seen from him... Star Wars 7, Star Trek 11 and 12, and... that might be it.

No, wait, he did 10 Cloverfield Lane, right? Didn't he? THAT was a good movie.

1 for 4.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

No, wait, he did 10 Cloverfield Lane, right? Didn't he?

Nope. Not even the first one.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Nope. Not even the first one.

Wait, I thought Cloverfield was an Abrams movie!

To IMBD!!!!

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Wait, I thought Cloverfield was an Abrams movie!

To IMBD!!!!

Producer only.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Now, how should they "fix" the DCEU going forward?

* Let Joss Whedon do whatever he can to make the JL movie presentable. Don't rush into JL2.

* Get "The Batman" and "Man of Steel 2" in the pipes for late 2018, early 2019. Now. Get the right people on them with the right vision. Let's see Batman beating himself up for murdering all those people in BvS and him trying to make good now. Maybe he can meet the Tim Drake Robin, and he kind of is able to snap Batman out of his reverie. Give the Jared Leto Joker some actual relevance to the plot. They can keep Deathstroke in there or not, it doesn't really matter as long as it's a good Batman story. "Man of Steel 2," call it "Superman." Also, don't make it some damn commercial for Shazam by making Black Adam the villain. Let's see Brainiac, or Mongul with Warworld. Right away, have Lex Luthor Sr. come home to Metropolis to save LexCorp from the state his son has left it in, and have him played by someone like Joaquin Phoenix. Don't mention the son too much, the less said the better. Have Lex Sr. make a classic Lex play... while Brainiac is ripping apart the world, Lex Sr. is doing his best to save it, setting the stage for a "Lex for President" thing in a subsequent movie (a role he'll, of course, abuse).

Between those two movies, I think the goodwill on Batman and Superman both would be suitably restored. Now things can go forward.

* Aquaman: I guess it's filming so not too much to be done about it but give the guys enough berth to make what they've shot hopefully pretty good.

* Flash: Shelve it until the new Batman and Superman movies come out, then resume work.

* Shazam: Cancel it. Entirely. They can try to work Shazam into a future JL movie and test the waters for him in that or Black Adam, maybe.

* Cyborg: Cancel it. Pretend it was never even on the slate.

* Green Lantern Corps: Keep it going... however... fire Geoff Johns from it immediately from any sort of creative role along with anyone on board the team saying "It can be the DC version of Guardians of the Galaxy!" No, it can't. You're a hack.

* Gotham City Sirens: Cancel it. No reason to spread things so thin this early out. Return to it later, maybe. Or don't.

* Suicide Squad 2: Keep working on it. Keep the idea clear, don't reshoot it three times because someone didn't like some other movie.

* Batgirl: Keep it, but as with Flash, they need to get Batman and Superman themselves right before we start getting into much of anything else.

* Nightwing: Keep it, but no rush on this at all. Let's meet Nightwing in "The Batman" first and let that digest a while.

* Black Adam: Rather than using a Shazam movie to introduce Black Adam, I think using a Black Adam movie to introduce Shazam might not be the worst thing ever. The Rock can make this pretty brutal. Probably some guest spots from Superman or WW would help sell this.

* WW2: Definitely make this happen and with the same team. Except Geoff Johns. No studio interference. The obvious inclination from WB will be, "Oh, people like our WW movie! WW2 can be a springboard for this character, and this character, and this character/storyline!" No. Don't.

* Teen Titans: Definitely a market for a good Teen Titans movie. Spin the Tim Drake Robin we met from The Batman into this. Batgirl, possibly. Have Cyborg be kind of the leader (here, he can have this instead of a solo movie).

* Now, now they can work their way into a JL2 movie.



You're missing the point. A Superman who has literally been alive since the 1920s and 1930s until now is a fundamentally different character. It's OK that he might age a little slower going forward... but if we're going to say he's already been around for a century, that's making the character unnecessarily unidentifiable right now.

Its amazing the things we can agree on... all that above being multiple...

And I agree that a superman film reboot starting in the 30s is a bad idea... pre crisis Supes might have been borderline immortal but post crisis Supes wasn't... and Pre Crisis Superman dyed his hair grey... Superman should follow a more streamlined story, say the Man of Steel mini series. Clark ks who he is, Superman is just his work clothes. Superman hasn't been written well since 1999ish. Unless thats turned around in the last year or so of his comics since i had to gice up collecting... Other than a 1000 years spent with Wonder Woman, away from his wife (damn good restraint, unlike the new52 Superman...), Kal seems to age only slightly slower than us mere mortals.

DC could always have the TV Barry Allen time travel again and mess the movie timeline up instead of his own... lol.