Official Episode Discussion S4 Ep 25: Requiem

[DisKosh]

I won't lie, at Splinter's death, I was actually sobbing. Clutching my Mikey plushie and sobbing.

I'd need to watch it again to be sure, but my immediate reaction is that it's an amazing episode.

Mikey calling him 'papa' just got me right in the feels.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by ABrown

Unbelievable Nickelodeon. This is seriously the way that they perceive the TMNT franchise: as having been created by Fred Wolf. Having the battle on top of the "Wolf" building.

I do have to admit though, this was probably the best produced episode of the entire series. Before this episode I was ready to be upset that they actually went through with killing Splinter AGAIN. But the episode made it work.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

LOL, what? The "Wolf" on the building has nothing to do with Fred Wolf. Stop reaching for things.

If anything the building is more of a nod to the rooftop battles in Mirage #1 and the 1990 movie when they fought Shredder.

You're both fools.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Watch next week's episode and you will see why I didn't add that option.

i've already mourned Splinter's death at the end of season 3.

this time that he died now just felt like old hat to me.


and in 'Earth's Last Stand' when Shredder comes in for the kill, how is it Splinter is able to stop him this time but not last time?
it's not like Leo left him a note warning him to be careful.

i still enjoy the show, but many elements of the writing are just handled poorly.
if they are going to include grown up themes, they need to rethink things better.

it just feels like cheap audience manipulation to me.

[drgon78]

I can't wait to see the season finally.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by myconius

i've already mourned Splinter's death at the end of season 3.

this time that he died now just felt like old hat to me.


and in 'Earth's Last Stand' when Shredder comes in for the kill, how is it Splinter is able to stop him this time but not last time?
it's not like Leo left him a note warning him to be careful.

i still enjoy the show, but many elements of the writing are just handled poorly.
if they are going to include grown up themes, they need to rethink things better.

it just feels like cheap audience manipulation to me.

There is a brief moment in trans dimensional turtles where Splinter calls Leo to the Dojo to explain what is going on. Here he noted that Leonardo looks rather sad. Leo then starts to warn Splinter about what would happen in a mater of months, but is cut off by Donnie screaming like a girl. While Leo was unable to warn his sensei about his demise, the encounter still would have keyed Splinter in that something happens in the future.

Then later in the final battle Leo yells out when Splinter is about to be killed and that helps prevent his death.

This time they are implying that his death is permanent.

[Chopperface]

So Bradford is dead? I don't see him coming back, not with the camera showing him struggling helplessly as Leatherhead took him down to the bottom of the river, Leatherhead returning without him, and Mikey going "Dudes we beat him!" Seems like too much in the way of establishing shots for him to have survived this one.

The show has really kinda tossed Bradford to the wayside since Season 1 anyway. What a waste of Clancy Brown. I'm only slightly surprised they paid so little attention to killing him off, because Foot Clan members besides Shredder, Karai, and Tigerclaw have rarely had that much focus or development to begin with. And he's become a joke in combat anyway, suffering from old toy syndrome or something. It was embarrassing that he would go down in one hit from Leo in The Invasion among other instances. But man. Bradford has been my favorite original character of the show besides Tigerclaw, and his Rahzar design is easily my favorite of this entire series. Sad to see him go.

As for Splinter, yeah, it loses some of its' gravitas this time because we've had like three "deaths" before now. Being thrown down the drain in The Invasion, literally dying then coming back with the Triceratons, and the whole "we die together" thing that I didn't buy for one second. Was it still sad to see it go down this time? For sure. The Turtles carrying him off, Mikey calling him "Papa". And yeah, he's certainly dead, I don't think you can survive being stabbed and then thrown off of a high building.

The 90's movie reference was great and chilling. And like before, Shredder survived this crushing, though at least this Shredder is a powerful mutant.

[Technogeek29]

Hey people who live in the UK did they keep the slight trail of blood as Splinter fell from the building?

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by Technogeek29

Hey people who live in the UK did they keep the slight trail of blood as Splinter fell from the building?

Blood?????

I didn't see any blood in both versions

Originally Posted by Chopperface

So Bradford is dead? I don't see him coming back, not with the camera showing him struggling helplessly as Leatherhead took him down to the bottom of the river, Leatherhead returning without him, and Mikey going "Dudes we beat him!" Seems like too much in the way of establishing shots for him to have survived this one.

The show has really kinda tossed Bradford to the wayside since Season 1 anyway. What a waste of Clancy Brown. I'm only slightly surprised they paid so little attention to killing him off, because Foot Clan members besides Shredder, Karai, and Tigerclaw have rarely had that much focus or development to begin with. And he's become a joke in combat anyway, suffering from old toy syndrome or something. It was embarrassing that he would go down in one hit from Leo in The Invasion among other instances. But man. Bradford has been my favorite original character of the show besides Tigerclaw, and his Rahzar design is easily my favorite of this entire series. Sad to see him go.

If Rahzar can survive being run over by a train, he will survive drowning, if we don't see him in season 5 , then we know he's dead.

[ABrown]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

If anything the building is more of a nod to the rooftop battles in Mirage #1 and the 1990 movie when they fought Shredder.

Agreed about that, however...

LOL, what? The "Wolf" on the building has nothing to do with Fred Wolf. Stop reaching for things.

You can't possibly believe that. You're telling me that it's just a coincidence that the name is the building just happens to have a name that's connected to the series in which Nickelodeon clearly has an infatuation with?

"The roof top of the building in which they first fought Shredder". That's the way that Nickelodeon looks at TMNT. That they first fought Shredder in the Fred Wolf series. I mean obviously they know that's not he case, but as far as they're concerned, it might as well be.

[THGhost]

• Super Shredder fighting the holographic Foot soldiers/Karai reminded me of the deleted scene from the 1990 movie where Shredder fights his own Foot soldiers.
• I can't remember the last time we saw Fishface. Nice to finally see him again.
• Don't die Splinter, not again
• Mighty Mutanimals are back yo!
• Super Shredder really need to cover up his exposed heart somehow.
• Hmmm, or not...
• Oh Bebop, you are the least be intimidating.
• That Age of Ultron/X-Men '92-style "splash page" was awesome! Can somebody make a gif of that please?
• Some great fight scenes in this one.
• The neon sign of the building that Super Shredder fights Raph, Splinter, April, Casey and Slash on says "WOLF". Nice touch there, Nick.
• DAMN YOU, SUPER SHREDDER!
• Christ. Raph and April's expressions were haunting...
• Shredder in the garbage compactor just like the 1990 movie. Nice!
• "Papa..." Damn Nick, you dark and nasty!
• Oh course the MF's alive!

Good episode despite what just happened. Liking the 1990 movie references.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

LOL, what? The "Wolf" on the building has nothing to do with Fred Wolf. Stop reaching for things.

Oh come on, Cubed. Even you aren't that naïve.

Originally Posted by Penst0ck

I kept it together pretty well 'till Mikey called Splinter "Papa"

Originally Posted by DisKosh

Mikey calling him 'papa' just got me right in the feels.

Yeah, that one got me.

Originally Posted by Vicky82

I doubt Rahzar's dead, if he can survive being run over by a train he will survive drowning.

I'm sure he'll be fine.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by ABrown

Unbelievable Nickelodeon. This is seriously the way that they perceive the TMNT franchise: as having been created by Fred Wolf. Having the battle on top of the "Wolf" building.

I do have to admit though, this was probably the best produced episode of the entire series. Before this episode I was ready to be upset that they actually went through with killing Splinter AGAIN. But the episode made it work.

I thought they were at the Wolf building because that's where they fought and encountered Shredder the first time back in the Gauntlet. I figured it was for irony.

Originally Posted by Vicky82

If Rahzar can survive being run over by a train, he will survive drowning, if we don't see him in season 5 , then we know he's dead.

i really doubt he survived that. Too deep. He may be strong enough to take hits, but I doubt he could swim fast enough from the bottom of the east river (?) to survive that, especially since it was a surprise attack. He probably didn't have time to ready himself before hitting the water. Then again, if it is indeed the east river, then it's a miracle Leatherhead survived.

[Technogeek29]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Blood?????

I didn't see any blood in both versions



If Rahzar can survive being run over by a train, he will survive drowning, if we don't see him in season 5 , then we know he's dead.

Maybe my imagination then but as he fell I could've sworn I saw a slight trail?

[Toadtrooper]

Super Shredder kind of ruins it. At the end of Season 3, Saki kills Splinter out of spiteful malice. But then that's reversed and Saki is left inexplicably on life support by a fairly tame battle with Splinter.

Pump him full of mutagen, and Shredder can be replaced with any of the big bad unbeatable mutants. There's really no difference between Super Shredder and Snakeweed by this point.

Season 3 was a good Villainous Breakdown. The world is ending, but I still need this victory. It made the space arc worth it just to deny Saki his selfishness.

But Season 4 was a bad breakdown. I know Ciro's trying to Throwback Thursday literally anything else in the Turtleverse and beyond, but it would have been a lot more satisfying if Oroku Saki had been fully cognizant of the irredeemable monster he had become, as opposed to just being a Monster of the Week rampage with a notable fatality.

In the process, Ciro somehow succeeding in making a Super Shredder that's worse than the one that had to follow Vanilla Ice. And Secret of the Ooze set a terribly low bar to begin with...

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Toadtrooper

Super Shredder kind of ruins it. At the end of Season 3, Saki kills Splinter out of spiteful malice. But then that's reversed and Saki is left inexplicably on life support by a fairly tame battle with Splinter.

Shredder was hit with numerous hits to vital pressure points. That was why he was laid up.

[Dust]

Originally Posted by Toadtrooper

Super Shredder kind of ruins it. At the end of Season 3, Saki kills Splinter out of spiteful malice. But then that's reversed and Saki is left inexplicably on life support by a fairly tame battle with Splinter.

Pump him full of mutagen, and Shredder can be replaced with any of the big bad unbeatable mutants. There's really no difference between Super Shredder and Snakeweed by this point.

Season 3 was a good Villainous Breakdown. The world is ending, but I still need this victory. It made the space arc worth it just to deny Saki his selfishness.

But Season 4 was a bad breakdown. I know Ciro's trying to Throwback Thursday literally anything else in the Turtleverse and beyond, but it would have been a lot more satisfying if Oroku Saki had been fully cognizant of the irredeemable monster he had become, as opposed to just being a Monster of the Week rampage with a notable fatality.

In the process, Ciro somehow succeeding in making a Super Shredder that's worse than the one that had to follow Vanilla Ice. And Secret of the Ooze set a terribly low bar to begin with...

Super Shredder is the embodiment of Oroku Saki's monstrous inside, now reflected in his own being. He's still Oroku Saki, he's still the Shredder, him killing Splinter has the same emotional attachment as either regular Shredder or Super Shredder, just now Saki has become a monster inside and outside. He became emotionally detached from Karai, now nothing is in his heart but pure malice and anger to all those that have stopped him from achieving his goal: killing Hamato Yoshi and the Turtles. I'm pretty convinced Saki was aware that he was a monster, but he just doesn't care anymore, too long has Hamato Yoshi lived. If Shredder realised what he'd done and stopped, after taunting Splinter with Karai, and with multiple attempts on his life, then that would be seen as a cop out. The only glimmer of hope that he had towards redemption was Karai, but that died, after a long while yes, but still.

Also, how is this Super Shredder worse than the SOTO one? Here, he actually wins fights, he's actually powerful, he's actually a SUPER Shredder.

[TheJ-manTurtleMan]

My thoughts on this episode
https://youtu.be/l7zvUGKvl5s

[ssjup81]

Okay, I am finally ready to give my thoughts on this episode, which includes what I liked, disliked, etc.

So, this I’d known about since I stepped foot into the Korean dread. My curiosity got the better of me. So, bottom line, I knew that Splinter was going to die, but I didn’t know exactly how. I only knew the “why”…Shredder is nuts. See kids, this is why heroin laced with liquid steroid solution is bad. “Drugs are bad mmmkay.” lol Kudos to April for nipping her crystal meth addiction in the bud.

The fight scenes in this episode were pretty good. I like how intense they all were. I still have this feeling that Rahzar was killed off. If the show have no qualms over killing out a supporting character that was a good guy, nothing wrong with them killing out an actual enemy, right? Like I mentioned earlier, he was caught offguard and was dragged to the bottom of the river, sea, or whatever.

I liked how everyone was in this episode, especially Casey. Last episode was good for him too. He definitely felt like his season 2 self, like when he was first brought into the series.

Now, for the random. The giant chicken thing that the kid morphed into that looked like Carter’s stupid-looking (imo) mutation totally caught me off guard. I was literally laughing my head off saying, “No they didn’t just go there. Carter reference? Really?” I then thought, “This is why I like this show. I love how they have throwbacks and nods to previous things, not just stuff that’s part of the Turtles franchise, but just stuff in general.” Also, that part when Casey landed by the garbage truck, I was saying, “Okay Nick, you have it, you better fricken use it!” They delivered. Casey’s “Oops” was the icing on the cake, but the fact that in the movie it was more comedic and here, Casey was legit upset and cold with it was…kind of surprising…yet not. He killed Splinter, Casey was angry about it. It felt almost passive aggressive like. It was like, “Sorry, not sorry.”

It was nice seeing the Mutanimals again and it was finally nice to see where Karai and Shinigami had been hiding out. I will say this…I’ve never seen the Bronx so quiet and empty. lol Shredder busting in there saying that Karai will die in the same way as her mother was super harsh. The fact that Shredder now is so strong that you can’t even penetrate his heart, I can’t help but wonder how the turtles are going to take him out. If only Shredder had said that when he was in stage 1 of his mutation, she would’ve taken him out easily. I wonder how much time is going to pass between this episode and the next episode. Oh when Karai was underneath the rubble, I was wondering, “Will Leo be the one to save her?” since it’s an onrunning gag. Hm, think next ep they’ll randomly have Karai, when finally fully coming to, say something like, “If you’d come like 5 minutes earlier…” to try and lighten a heavy mood before slipping back into reality. Oh man, how is Karai going to take Splinter’s death. Man, I could see her wanting to really go after Shredder. Well, that aside, good thing Leo was able to do CPR…through that metal vest of hers. lol

The heartbreaking part was when Leo screamed. As I said before, I knew Splinter was going to get killed, but nothing else other than that, but the cut seemed a bit odd there. Seems that scream should’ve come after April and Raph’s scene because from that angle, I doubt Leo would’ve been able to see the stabbing, even with the scope, unless he was seeing Shredder climbing back up…but I doubt he would’ve shouted “no” with such anguish.

Meh, guess it doesn’t matter. That entire part was heart-wrenching. I’m not the top to cry at stuff that’s fictional…okay, I’m not the type to cry much at all, and it wasn’t the actual killing that almost got to me…it was everyone’s reactions to it, especially Mikey’s “Papa”. I almost cried. Wow. Even though I wanted Splinter killed out, I just wasn’t expecting it to be that intense.

Okay, not much else I can say that others haven’t….except that I now know why they let Splinter get drunk last episode. I t was a last hurrah. lol

Now what I had problem with...the pacing slightly. It was too fast-paced. It felt like parts were missing from the episode. It’s the same complaint I had with Tale of the Yokai, only what felt missing there ruined the episode for me…that wasn’t the case here. They had so many characters in this episode, they didn’t really focus on what their whereabouts were. For example, Rockwell and Fishface were left unaccounted for.

So yeah, can’t wait for season 5. I wonder if this means the characters will force mature…but I mainly mean this for characters like Mikey and Casey. They have their moments and imo, Mikey is loads better than he was back in season 1. Seems for this season, they toned Mikey down quite a bit and have gradually over time. I know I’m weird, but out of the four, I’m the most curious about Mikey after all this. Okay I’ll stop rambling. This post has gone on long enough.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Dust

Super Shredder is the embodiment of Oroku Saki's monstrous inside, now reflected in his own being. He's still Oroku Saki, he's still the Shredder, him killing Splinter has the same emotional attachment as either regular Shredder or Super Shredder, just now Saki has become a monster inside and outside. He became emotionally detached from Karai, now nothing is in his heart but pure malice and anger to all those that have stopped him from achieving his goal: killing Hamato Yoshi and the Turtles. I'm pretty convinced Saki was aware that he was a monster, but he just doesn't care anymore, too long has Hamato Yoshi lived. If Shredder realised what he'd done and stopped, after taunting Splinter with Karai, and with multiple attempts on his life, then that would be seen as a cop out. The only glimmer of hope that he had towards redemption was Karai, but that died, after a long while yes, but still.

Also, how is this Super Shredder worse than the SOTO one? Here, he actually wins fights, he's actually powerful, he's actually a SUPER Shredder.

Movie 2 Super Shredder was pathetic. Done in by a darn pier! All we got was "Hulk smash!" Playing games like Turtles in Time and Hyperstone Heist, at the time, and then facing Super Shredder, you were expecting something like that in the movie or something. At least Nick is doing cray-cray Shredder as Super Shredder some justice. I so agree with all you said here regarding the character.

Hm, as an easter egg, they should have Super Shredder fighting the turtles on a pier or dock...just for irony's sake. lol

[CyberCubed]

Movie 2 Super Shredder had a lot of boards and "all that stuff on top" according to Raphael. I wouldn't be surprised if it broke his neck.

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by Technogeek29

Maybe my imagination then but as he fell I could've sworn I saw a slight trail?

Nope, nothing.