Does anyone else feel disillusioned with their fandom?

[PApagreg]

Just so everybody knows the term Cal Arts was coined by John K to describe artstyles that resemble Disney films like the Iron Giant so not only are you using the same term that was made by a guy who had relationships with an underage girl you are also using the term wrong too.

Spoiler:

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Ah oh. Duck and cover! I think I hear an air raid siren. lol

Yea I probably shouldn't of been so honest in that comment.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

It's like they don't understand why the TMNT has endured as a franchise in the way that it has. When you pass the age of about 10 and outgrow the Nick TMNT (Rise, in this case), there's nothing to outgrow it into.

So really Nick TMNT's audience is a revolving door of millions of 5-9 year olds (becoming interested then almost immediately outgrowing it and losing interest). Oh, and like the ten 30-40 year-olds on this forum and on the internet that watch it out of some kind of devotion to the franchise, or at least what the franchise used to be.

Yeah, man. That's long been my gripe. In 1990, the first film and the Archie comics were there to help keep my interest in the brand alive by presenting a slightly more "grown-up" version of what I knew, without being completely unrecognizable. I don't know if I would have remained a fan through my tween and teen years if all I had was the old cartoon; I watched tons of cartoons in the 80s, but I can count the ones I actively kept up with after that on one hand. But TMNT had multiple "flavors" at that point so different age groups could be fans and stay invested.

Aiming squarely at kids and only kids, while having the attitude of, "If the 30 and 40-year olds wanna tag along, that's great, but we honestly don't care" is so, SO stupid. It's why the WWF almost went completely out of business in 1995/96: It's incredibly short-sighted to expect that you can just whip up an entirely new fanbase of little kids every few years. In '95, the wrestling fans who grew up on Hulk Hogan were in high school and sick of the cartoon bullsh*t, and their kid brothers did NOT just pick up where they left it and start watching in their place; Vince McMahon nearly bankrupted himself before he figured out that he needed to reach out to those fans who were getting older, who had already BEEN fans for ten or more years, rather than push them away and say, "Eh, we want kids to watch, not you." One could argue that he took too sharp of a left turn, but that's another argument. Point being, he realized that the 5-10 year old crowd is NOT a sustainable audience and you can't just expect their younger siblings to take over for them. You HAVE to respect the segment of the audience that never stopped watching and caring, or else you lose.

I do strongly feel, however, that in their testament to being a "kids' company", Nick really would rather shelve the entire franchise and try again in a decade or more, rather than just allow some more "adult" content to co-exist with things like "Rise". That's been my beef with "Rise" from the start; I don't like it at all, but if other people do, that's fine, BUT, it's definitely not a way for the franchise to "put its best foot forward" and sadly it's the most visible thing in the brand right now. Were it not the ONLY cartoon or TV/movie project going on, that's an entirely different ballgame, but regardless of whether anyone likes it, it DOES hurt the brand simply because there's nothing else going on right now, and it mostly serves to hammer home the idea that "This franchise is just Goofy Kids Stuff". Were there something else on the air to "counter-balance" things, then it's a harmless confection. I think a lot of people probably feel the same way; the people who don't like it could tolerate it if it wasn't "carrying the torch" for the entire brand.

I'unno. I agree, Andrew; aiming ONLY at the younglings and expecting that audience to "respawn" every 5 years is not a good business plan, and it's going to cost them in the long run. As well as costing everyone else, too.

I also think it's bonkers to actively reject the portion of the audience with a lot of nostalgia and disposable income, but nobody at Nick asked me about it.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Just so everybody knows the term Cal Arts was coined by John K to describe artstyles that resemble Disney films like the Iron Giant so not only are you using the same term that was made by a guy who had relationships with an underage girl you are also using the term wrong too.

Spoiler:

https://i.redd.it/ks48mo83b0z01.jpg

Terms (and animation art trends) also change and pretty sure most know what is meant by it today. Clearly Disney and Iron Giant are not what people think about these days when they hear or discuss things associated with that term.

Pedos also breathe oxygen so I guess we should stop doing that too. (That is to say, I'm not sure what that terrible fact about that guy has to do with that particular topic.)

Originally Posted by pferreira

Yea I probably shouldn't of been so honest in that comment.

Nah, not your honesty. Just some of those keywords have already had some tempers going, so just duck if things start flying again. lol

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Terms also change and pretty sure most know what is meant by it today. Clearly Disney and Iron Giant are not what people think about these days when they hear or discuss things associated with that term.

Well they sure has hell don't think about Samurai Jack and the Powerpuff girls hence why anyone who uses that term knows crap about animation and just uses it as a buzz terms to describe animation trends they don't like.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

It's like they don't understand why the TMNT has endured as a franchise in the way that it has. When you pass the age of about 10 and outgrow the Nick TMNT (Rise, in this case), there's nothing to outgrow it into.

So really Nick TMNT's audience is a revolving door of millions of 5-9 year olds (becoming interested then almost immediately outgrowing it and losing interest). Oh, and like the ten 30-40 year-olds on this forum and on the internet that watch it out of some kind of devotion to the franchise, or at least what the franchise used to be.

You know time progresses right, after the 5-9 year olds grow up there are going to be new 5-9 year olds, its not like after The Batman we got a TV-14 Batman show we got Brave and the Bold

[TommyT]

They killed Cal-arts turtles, and I think maybe some of you are realizing that we do infact have the power. The vote was 90% percent against, and our dollars have spoken.

Yeah you might be afraid they’re gonna call you a basement dweller, but what do you think they call you now? Are you really comfortable buy stuff you son’t want, just because that’s all you’re allowed to have?

We can make it happen. Post more Mirage, and post often. You never know who is here with you, watching and waiting to help.

[snake]

Damn, was Samurai Jack always hated by boomers and lumped into the same category as Adventure Time or Steven Universe? Those shows aren't even comparable.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by snake

Damn, was Samurai Jack always hated by boomers and lumped into the same category as Adventure Time or Steven Universe? Those shows aren't even comparable.

When rise is over, you’ll still have Paw Patrol.

[snake]

Alright, man. Go whack off to Rainbow Brite or some other poorly animated 80s cartoon.

[AquaParade]

I feel pretty good about supporting the Neca figures and IDW books when I am able to. Those markets are typically aimed at older audiences, so it’s probably the best way to send a message. Honestly, maybe tweeting too, these days. Idk.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I feel pretty good about supporting the Neca figures and IDW books when I am able to. Those markets are typically aimed at older audiences, so it’s probably the best way to send a message. Honestly, maybe tweeting too, these days. Idk.

It’s a good idea to do more of that. If adults are seen as the demo, adults will be the demo they’ll cater. Simple as that.

[PApagreg]

So let me get this straight

This is Cal Arts Garbage correct

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

So let me get this straight

Dude the semantics don't matter. You might even be right about some of them, but it doesn't matter. The show sucks.

And even if you argued continually that the show did not suck because of reasons x, y, & z; then it still doesn't matter because the show is unarguably out of touch with the long term fanbase, and has failed to attract a new one large enough to sustain it, as it seems to be at this point.

Now if fanbase grows and the show survives even 4 paltry seasons, I'm sure many people here would at that point be more open to the wordplay argument.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by IMJ

Dude the semantics don't matter. You might even be right about some of them, but it doesn't matter. The show sucks.

And even if you argued continually that the show did not suck because of reasons x, y, & z; then it still doesn't matter because the show is unarguably out of touch with the long term fanbase, and has failed to attract a new one large enough to sustain it, as it seems to be at this point.

Now if fanbase grows and the show survives even 4 paltry seasons, I'm sure many people here would at that point be more open to the wordplay argument.

1. That was a clip of Samurai Jack

2.This show is getting traction of Twitter
https://twitter.com/zimmerltw/status...90246061568001
https://twitter.com/frasierverse/sta...22565462020097
https://twitter.com/rottmntsakuga/st...89484221849600
https://twitter.com/rottmntsakuga/st...02078987751424
https://twitter.com/MannLightfoot/st...55599155564544

3. What difference does it make if the show survives 4 seasons(also 112 episodes for a show isn't paltry) and it doesn't matter if people are more open to wordplay argument because they are using the term wrong.

[TommyT]

Denial is a cruel mistress. He’s fighting for his blanket. He’s screaming for his mother. He’s calling for mods, and yet,

He’s not even a fan, he just wants cal-arts everything.

[Candy Kappa]

I just don't think TommyT's two brain cells can comprehend what Papagreg is trying to tell that "Cal-Arts" don't mean "This thing I don't like", but I think it's a lost cause.

Rise April just don't cater to his specific spank material needs.

[80gmrp]

...not sure what happened to this thread since I last posted in it, but it seems it’s proven my point about toxicity: frankly, it is possible to have disagreements that don’t involve insulting others simply because they disagree with you...while I admit I didn’t help in the past over what this thread seems to have deformed into (another pro/anti Rise argument thread), at least I learned my lesson by, among other things, staying out of the forum this tangent belongs in...

[Jester]

I think we'd all do well to remember:

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

You know time progresses right, after the 5-9 year olds grow up there are going to be new 5-9 year olds, its not like after The Batman we got a TV-14 Batman show we got Brave and the Bold

That's exactly what I said. Respawning generations of 5-9 year-olds. I'm saying is that if they were smart, they could keep one generation of TMNT fans and lock them into the long term if they had stuff that appealed to an older sensibility as opposed to offering literally nothing.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

3. What difference does it make if the show survives 4 seasons(also 112 episodes for a show isn't paltry) and it doesn't matter if people are more open to wordplay argument because they are using the term wrong.

Well my friend, let's see - 4 seasons is the beginning of a respectable run on most shows but is still considered unsuccessful in broadcast standards. However, 4 seasons is normally considered to be renewal by interest as opposed to renewal by contract (2 seasons) or renewal by business planning (sometimes 3 seasons).

And so the point is that a lot of crap shows can squeak out 2 or 3 seasons, but if a show lasts 4, then that's normally because the fandom for the show is there enough to call for it, or at least there enough to see more potential growth in a fourth season.

That's the difference.

Originally Posted by 80gmrp

...not sure what happened to this thread since I last posted in it, but it seems it’s proven my point about toxicity: frankly, it is possible to have disagreements that don’t involve insulting others simply because they disagree with you...while I admit I didn’t help in the past over what this thread seems to have deformed into (another pro/anti Rise argument thread), at least I learned my lesson by, among other things, staying out of the forum this tangent belongs in...

I think it's important to remember that there is no vocal inflection online, so most of the written word tends to come off as a sort of neutral combativeness. The other thing to remember is your audience and posting location - people adopt exaggerated demeanors. Try posting on a financial forum, or worse yet a business forum where HR people post. Everything is so exaggeratedly polite and "celebrated" that it's nauseating in the other direction entirely because it's so phony.