Batwoman TV Series

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

on the motu board you're also only allowed to praise it. these type of shows have their own agenda, and somehow money and success does not enter into it. they are probably budgeted for a 'set' number of shows they think they can last without going broke..and then go quietly into the sunset after the twitterati dries up.

whole different set of rules for these types of things.

I haven't actually seen a ton of that, though. I've seen a lot of heated arguments about it get deleted once they get too into actual "political" stuff and not enough about the show specifically. But I do see a lot of "I don't like it, Here's Why" and it's allowed to stay up.

The most active thread about it is whether or not it will have any legacy at all aside from fracturing the fanbase, and there's a LOT of comments from people who didn't like it. So I don't think they "only allow people to like it", I just think they don't want things to get too heated. They have a much shorter leash on people, over there.

Originally Posted by snake

I can see the old, toy-collecting He-Man dudes retaliating against it, but I think this is a case where the "it isn't for you" argument can be used with merit, because they're openly aiming for a different audience and actually succeeding. It's a vehicle for writers to write what they want, and not one to sell toys, which I can get behind. This isn't like Star Wars, where they took a property that was already popular with everybody, and still managed to alienate all demographics.

But again, I genuinely do not give a shlt about 'integrity' of the He-Man toy franchise or whatever some people are undoubtedly complaining about. It's not like the toys have gone anywhere, and old fans are still being catered to with stuff like MOTU origins. I don't know, I just like Modulok.

Problem with your thesis being, a ton of older He-Man and She-Ra fans are gay, and more of them than you'd think DID think that the new She-Ra show was heavy-handed pandering. They're not shy about saying so.

There's no "One Size Fits All" Consensus from LGBTQ+ people as to whether something that aims to "include" them does a good job or not. Some younger queer people like the show simply for existing, and that's their prerogative. Some older queer people say things like "Well why did they even bother making it 'She-Ra' if they were just going to go so off-script with it?" and "Man, as a queer person, I remember when I didn't need to be hit over the head with rainbows and unicorns in order to feel 'included' in something. This show tries too hard and it annoys me."

The thesis that it's just "crusty old straight white males" who didn't like the new She-Ra is the kinds of stuff the show's fans have been saying on social media, BUT it's not the reality. Plenty of gay people didn't like it. Thus it basically became a war of Ageism rather than ideology, with anyone "Too Old" for New Coke Flavor She-Ra being told to go screw. And you should never treat your audience that way. Whether it's She-Ra or TMNT, or anything, if you already have an existing fanbase you should never lead in with your fists up saying, "Yeah, if you're over 30, please kindly go f*ck your own face, we don't want you to play with us."

For SOME reason, people don't like that kinda thing. Weird, right?

Regardless, this is all very off-topic from why I brought the show up to begin with: Andrew mentioned how streaming shows can be "successful" despite not drawing in any actual money simply because of how streaming models work, and I brought up the new She-Ra because it's the most prominent example of that which I have any ability to speak to. If we're gonna debate whether or not it was "good" or has any right to exist, that's a WHOLE other conversation that has nothing to do with This One. It IS an example of a streaming show that 1. Wouldn't have gone over if it were on a network, and 2. Didn't make anyone any money and probably lost some in the end.

That's the only reason I even mentioned it. It wasn't to start "A Thing."

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

That fanbase has openly mocked the original show and insulted the likes of it's creators in J. Michael Straznyski and insulted Larry DiTillio when he passed. Yeah, f*ck them.

Princesses of Power wasn't a success, it cost Mattel money and they're ignoring it in favour of more of what it's fanbase actually want to see.

Yeah, that stuff was gross. When Melendy Britt asked for new fans to be respectful to older fans, some of the newer fans said something about burning down her house, because how dare She-Ra herself have any opinion on She-Ra. Awesome. Right Side Of History!

I've *heard* that Mattel lost money on it (or at least broke even but not much more) but I don't have the numbers to back that up. All I know for a fact is that as the brand-holders of the property, Mattel did not get anything substantial out of the Netflix show. A little brand awareness, maybe, but nothing dollars-and-cents based. The only real "success" could be measured in, "How many people bought Netflix subscriptions specifically to watch That One Show?", and conveniently, as Andrew initially pointed out, there's no way to actually tell those things.

[snake]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Problem with your thesis being, a ton of older He-Man and She-Ra fans are gay, and more of them than you'd think DID think that the new She-Ra show was heavy-handed pandering. They're not shy about saying so.

There's no "One Size Fits All" Consensus from LGBTQ+ people as to whether something that aims to "include" them does a good job or not. Some younger queer people like the show simply for existing, and that's their prerogative. Some older queer people say things like "Well why did they even bother making it 'She-Ra' if they were just going to go so off-script with it?" and "Man, as a queer person, I remember when I didn't need to be hit over the head with rainbows and unicorns in order to feel 'included' in something. This show tries too hard and it annoys me."

Yeah, the demographic definitely skews younger, and that's a whole different can of worms. My experience with non-straight people is limited solely to younger ones, of the twitter variety. Definitely no one over the age of 30.

Originally Posted by Leo656

The thesis that it's just "crusty old straight white males" who didn't like the new She-Ra is the kinds of stuff the show's fans have been saying on social media, BUT it's not the reality. Plenty of gay people didn't like it. Thus it basically became a war of Ageism rather than ideology, with anyone "Too Old" for New Coke Flavor She-Ra being told to go screw. And you should never treat your audience that way. Whether it's She-Ra or TMNT, or anything, if you already have an existing fanbase you should never lead in with your fists up saying, "Yeah, if you're over 30, please kindly go f*ck your own face, we don't want you to play with us."

For SOME reason, people don't like that kinda thing. Weird, right?

I have no clue how the fandom divide was handled. I'm definitely not a fan of the aggressive, 'we don't WANT you here' rhetoric when it comes from the official channels. Leave that stuff for the fanbase to sort out. I think it's good to have different things for different audiences, but shltting on one audience at the expense of another is just bad for business.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Regardless, this is all very off-topic from why I brought the show up to begin with: Andrew mentioned how streaming shows can be "successful" despite not drawing in any actual money simply because of how streaming models work, and I brought up the new She-Ra because it's the most prominent example of that which I have any ability to speak to. If we're gonna debate whether or not it was "good" or has any right to exist, that's a WHOLE other conversation that has nothing to do with This One. It IS an example of a streaming show that 1. Wouldn't have gone over if it were on a network, and 2. Didn't make anyone any money and probably lost some in the end.

That's the only reason I even mentioned it. It wasn't to start "A Thing."

It's the Drome. This place has never not been off topic. I was just weighing in because I thought it was interesting that the show accrued a fanbase when I was almost sure it would've flopped, and I happened to know a few people who like the show. Not related at all to the reasons why you brought it up, because yeah, it absolutely would not have survived on network television.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by snake

It's the Drome. This place has never not been off topic. I was just weighing in because I thought it was interesting that the show accrued a fanbase when I was almost sure it would've flopped, and I happened to know a few people who like the show. Not related at all to the reasons why you brought it up, because yeah, it absolutely would not have survived on network television.

True story!

I personally wasn't shocked that show had a fanbase, because it worked very hard to cater to a very specific group of people. I'd be shocked if those specific people DIDN'T like the show. When your showrunner openly says, "This show is to promote the gay agenda", over and over again, you're definitely going to draw a lot of 20-something Twitteristas to it, because it was made for them by design.

It just would have been nice if anyone who already liked She-Ra had any reason at all to pay attention to it, is the thing. But that was in no way a priority and in turn it pissed a lot of people off. It's impossible to say whether a "regular" She-Ra show would have done any better or worse than this one did. But most people who already liked She-Ra would have been happier if this specific show had called itself something else. And that included a lot of older gay people, who initially were helped along in finding out they were gay thanks to the original He-Man and She-Ra cartoons.

The cancelled Xena reboot, same thing. A ton of lesbians like Xena. Lots of straight women, too. When they announced a Xena reboot that was going to be 100% about Xena and Gabrielle being open lesbians, huge chunks of the fanbase said "Ugh, don't." Sure, some of the lesbians were all over it, because in theory they'd get to see two hot Amazons sucking face for an hour every week, but even more of them were like "We don't need All That." Most Xena fans were fine with Subtext being Subtext, it was more fun for everyone that way. In the end, they cancelled the project, and it was probably for the best.

I think if the She-Ra reboot had been the exact same show but all the characters had different names, it probably wouldn't have gotten the same media attention but it also might be more well-received in general since it wouldn't have any of the "baggage". I know that my wife is a huge Xena fan, and she thought the All-Lesbian Xena Reboot was a terrible idea and was relieved they never made it. She'd love for Xena to make a comeback but not Just For That Reason. If that's the only reason she'd just as soon it stay dead and buried.

Personally, I'm of the mind that if you have to do something like that, you're better off doing Your Own Thing and not trying to co-opt Someone Else's Thing for cheap attention pops. That never seems to go over too well. You win a few people over but you also shove a lot of people away by default, and that's never good. It always feels like the showrunners don't have enough confidence in their ideas to sell themselves on their own merit, so they go for "Look how we changed ______!" for shock value. And that just feels cheap and lazy.

[snake]

I personally think Xena would be massively improved if ‘90s Lucy Lawless and Renee O’Connor made out for 10 minutes every episode.

[Leo656]

I definitely wouldn't complain, but that's me as a pervert and not actually the perspective of a "real" Xena fan.

[sdp]

Originally Posted by snake

I personally think Xena would be massively improved if ‘90s Lucy Lawless and Renee O’Connor made out for 10 minutes every episode.

[Leo656]

"I see dead people..."

No, seriously. Dude's dead. Shame.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by sdp

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YW8n5zuwu...rchive2006.jpg

The talented Kevin Smith

[Leo656]

Hey, man The Other One at least made Mallrats. Credit where it's due!

[frank_one]

No love for Clerks? That movie is a little masterpiece.

[Leo656]

I know but that's the one everybody cites first and foremost. My gimmick is having controversial opinions and also being kind of an idiot, you see.

Plus, Mallrats had Joey Lauren Adams's tits out. And Miss Ivana. Zero tits in Clerks.

God, the sh*t I'd do to mid-90s Joey Lauren Adams.......

[Rabbit Kraken Zeo]

This show was pretty cool when it first premiered; haven't been able to keep up but I'd like to catch up on the new season hopefully soon. I never understood why the lead actress left but that happens to. This new lead seems very engaged with her role as batwomanand I think she'll be fine.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by frank_one

No love for Clerks? That movie is a little masterpiece.

I love just about everything he did early on in the Askewverse actually, I meant more recent Kevin Smith (if the past fifteen or so years can be considered recent)

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Rabbit Kraken Zeo

This show was pretty cool when it first premiered; haven't been able to keep up but I'd like to catch up on the new season hopefully soon. I never understood why the lead actress left but that happens to. This new lead seems very engaged with her role as batwomanand I think she'll be fine.

This show was never cool, people have made a mockery of it since day one.

[Andrew NDB]

The Ruby Rose Batwoman is being... retconned?

https://screenrant.com/arrowverse-ba...mpaign=SR-FB-P

[Sumac]

So much respect for a "brave and stunning" woman...that they even kicked her out of continuity. How typical for the leftards.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

The Ruby Rose Batwoman is being... retconned?

https://screenrant.com/arrowverse-ba...mpaign=SR-FB-P

The current season keeps it a mystery as to wheter or not she survived the plane crash. My guess is that they're trying to show none of her in the role, so they can more easily recast her when the twist hits.

[Leo656]

Man, she really must have pissed someone off.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Man, she really must have pissed someone off.

Seriously. She musta taken a rancid $hit in somebody's urn of their grandmother's ashes.

[Autbot_Benz]

Kate Kane has been recast Wallis Day will be playing an altered version of Kate



https://deadline.com/2021/03/batwoma...cw-1234718851/

The second half of the season is going to reveal where Kate has been, and what that means for her character going forward. At the end of tonight’s episode, the audience discovers that Kate Kane is alive but unrecognizable due to injuries she sustained in the crash. She is bandaged and being held hostage. That said, Day will play an altered version of Kate.