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Old 05-23-2019, 12:23 AM   #721
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Unleashed had hub like sections for each part of the map but not like SA.

06’s hub world seemed dull for some reason.

I’ve read some say they should remake 06. I guess that true.
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:27 AM   #722
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I was having fun with Unleashed until the ending. Then I lost like 50 lives on a cheap-ass boss fight and rage quit. I might go back to it but I'unno. I did like most of the regular Sonic levels but some of them were cheap.

I don't hate that game as much as most seem to but it definitely needed work.

I've heard it spoken by people who've played a patched version of Sonic '06 for PC that it's actually not terrible with all the bugs removed, but I wouldn't know. I only know what I played on Xbox 360, which was the drizzling sh*ts.
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:27 AM   #723
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As someone who has only played the Mega Drive Sonic games plus Sonic Mania and half of the first Advance game:

I think a lot of people have a lot of nostalgia for the classic Sonic games and can't accept Sonic in 3d form or in a different way than the games they grew up playing. As great as the classic Sonic games are, none of them is as good as the mainline Mario games, like Leo told me somewhere else. Sonic 2 and Sonic Mania are the only games of the classic gameplay Sonic games that come close to being masterpieces. And even those games have their flaws. They're great games, but not masterpieces.

Sonic has always been the least good of the biggest platforming series, imo. The best Mario, Donkey Kong Country and Mega Man are all superior to the best Sonic games, imo. Sonic games rely on the speed gimmick, which worked well as a test demo to prove how fast Mega Drive was compared to the Super Nintendo, but something that doesn't impress much nowadays unless it's on a racing game series like F-Zero. Honestly, go play Sonic 1 in 2019. It doesn't even have the spin dash feature. It hasn't aged to well. Marble and Labyrinth zones are kinda painful to go through. And, as stated many times in Sonic discussions, for games where speed is the major selling-point, it sure feels more detrimental than helpful often. Ofc I'm not suggesting Sonic games to simply require you to press and hold right on the D-pad and expecting to beat every level just like that, but developers always had trouble designing levels that have a good mix of platforming and use of speed. Plus, Sonic's jumping controls weren't as tight as those in Mario, for example.

I haven't played the 3D Sonic games asides from a bit of the All-Star racing game when it was free to play on Steam for a couple of days, but I don't recall Sonic being considered as "trash" until the mid 2000s. I think the Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 2006 games REAAAAAAAAALLY damaged the reputation of the property. The Adventure and Advance games had good reviews for the most part. While most people seem to have Shadow and Sonic 2006 and consider them to be trash games.

You gotta remember that Sonic, at one point, was going toe-to-toe with Mario. And even to this day it's still one of the most recognisable video game characters of all time. Go ask grandmas who don't play video games to name all the video game characters they know. They'll name Mario and Sonic, most likely. So, my point is, a Sonic game being blasted by the critics and fans alike is sorta embarrassing. People expected better out of the Sega mascot. Imagine if Zelda, Mario, Pokémon, GTA, Final Fantasy, etc. had a few REALLY bad games in the upcoming 4-5 years. Wouldn't that annoy a lot of people as well and wonder WTF happened? Lucky for Nintendo they didn't develop the ****** Mario and Zelda CD-i games... but no one bought those, anyway

As for the hub world in SA, I'm gonna guess it's because that game is from 1998 and it was hard to build a massive world in a 3D game at the time still? Same reason Mario 64 had to have the Princess Peach castle as a hub world and Banjo-Kazooie had to have the Gruntilda Lair as one as well. Donkey Kong 64 also had a hub world.

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Old 05-23-2019, 12:41 AM   #724
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I always, ALWAYS try to Spin Dash in Sonic 1. F*ckin' stupid game not magically having the perks of its later sequels. F*ck they tryin' to pull? The biggest obstacle in Sonic 1 isn't the enemies; it's gentle but steep hills. Bananas.

I'd still rather play most Sonic games than most Mega Man games, personally. I like Mega Man, but I'm not comfortable calling my video game a "Cheating, c*nty sack of assholes" as often as I end up doing when I play Mega Man games.

I think you'd dig Sonic Adventure, or at least the Sonic levels. Mileage varies on the side character levels. I find them a nice break, but some people just want All Sonic, and I guess I understand that. I will say that the Sonic levels in SA are some of the most fun I've had playing Sonic games. They're all the fun parts of Sonic gameplay and none of the frustrating parts. They could be longer, and there could be more of them, but they're fun.

As I've said elsewhere, though, if you only ever play one Sonic game again, forever, play Sonic Generations. I can't recall one single thing about it that I didn't like. I played it on Xbox 360, so I had the added benefit of creating a custom soundtrack for it full of tons of speed, thrash, and hair metal. It's bliss. You haven't lived until you've played Sonic racing down the side of a skyscraper at a billion miles per hour with swarms of robots in hot pursuit, to the strains of Fozzy's impeccable cover of "The Mob Rules".

Seriously, it's a really good game. I'm amazed it doesn't get more discussion.

I also liked both parts of Sonic 4.
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:44 AM   #725
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I was having fun with Unleashed until the ending. Then I lost like 50 lives on a cheap-ass boss fight and rage quit. I might go back to it but I'unno. I did like most of the regular Sonic levels but some of them were cheap.

I don't hate that game as much as most seem to but it definitely needed work.

I've heard it spoken by people who've played a patched version of Sonic '06 for PC that it's actually not terrible with all the bugs removed, but I wouldn't know. I only know what I played on Xbox 360, which was the drizzling sh*ts.
Oh I remember you mentioned that. Which boss? Was it an Eggman fight or Gaia fight?

Or do you mean those quick time event flying portions? I hated those.
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:46 AM   #726
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I always, ALWAYS try to Spin Dash in Sonic 1. F*ckin' stupid game not magically having the perks of its later sequels. F*ck they tryin' to pull? The biggest obstacle in Sonic 1 isn't the enemies; it's gentle but steep hills. Bananas.

I'd still rather play most Sonic games than most Mega Man games, personally. I like Mega Man, but I'm not comfortable calling my video game a "Cheating, c*nty sack of assholes" as often as I end up doing when I play Mega Man games.

I think you'd dig Sonic Adventure, or at least the Sonic levels. Mileage varies on the side character levels. I find them a nice break, but some people just want All Sonic, and I guess I understand that. I will say that the Sonic levels in SA are some of the most fun I've had playing Sonic games. They're all the fun parts of Sonic gameplay and none of the frustrating parts. They could be longer, and there could be more of them, but they're fun.

As I've said elsewhere, though, if you only ever play one Sonic game again, forever, play Sonic Generations. I can't recall one single thing about it that I didn't like. I played it on Xbox 360, so I had the added benefit of creating a custom soundtrack for it full of tons of speed, thrash, and hair metal. It's bliss. You haven't lived until you've played Sonic racing down the side of a skyscraper at a billion miles per hour with swarms of robots in hot pursuit, to the strains of Fozzy's impeccable cover of "The Mob Rules".

Seriously, it's a really good game. I'm amazed it doesn't get more discussion.

I also liked both parts of Sonic 4.
You can enable the spin-dash in the 3DS port/remake of the first Sonic game. Although it does feel like cheating when you pull the spin-dash in Sonic 1. Sonic 1 is the most platform-like o the classic Sonic games. I don't recall speeding at all during Marble Zone or Labyrinth Zone. Not very advisable to run in Scrp brain Zone either. The developers didn't want every level to be fast paced like Green Hill Zone because they were afraid the player would run out of breath. Nowadays this looks absurd, but I guess in 1991 a game like Sonic the Hedgehog wasn't for the faint of the heart
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:55 AM   #727
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Oh I remember you mentioned that. Which boss? Was it an Eggman fight or Gaia fight?

Or do you mean those quick time event flying portions? I hated those.
It was something with Eggman*, like I think I kept falling to my death somehow. It was like 3 or 4 years ago, I can't really remember. I hardly had any problems with the game until that part, and that just killed my mood. But I maintain that the rest of the game before that is more fun than people give it credit for.

*I meant to say "Robotnik", because "Eggman" is f*ckin' stupid.
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:00 AM   #728
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I still call him Dr. Robotnik as well. I don't care if Eggman was his name all along in Japan. It's like the Street Fighter bosses name swap. Ok, in Japan M. Bison is Vega, Vega is Balrog, Balrog is M.Bison and Akuma is Gouki... but I'll NEVER stop calling them by the names I've first known them as. Just like I don't call Ash Ketchum Satoshi or Misty Kasumi.
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:09 AM   #729
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It was something with Eggman*, like I think I kept falling to my death somehow. It was like 3 or 4 years ago, I can't really remember. I hardly had any problems with the game until that part, and that just killed my mood. But I maintain that the rest of the game before that is more fun than people give it credit for.

*I meant to say "Robotnik", because "Eggman" is f*ckin' stupid.
Egg Dragoon maybe. You’re on a rock as the Werehog.

I go back and forth with the name. Depends what I’m talking about. I know Robotnik is his proper name.
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:13 AM   #730
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From now on he's "Jim Carrey" to me, guv'nah.

Which is fine. I hate Jim Carrey!
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:28 AM   #731
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Wait you really don’t really like Jim Carrey or is that a joke?

I looked it up and I’m thinking it’s probably the Egg Lancer boss. You’re constantly running and there’s parts where you have to go in between rows of bombs.
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:35 AM   #732
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Can't 'membuh. I'm not about to boot it up at 3:30am just to find out. Could'a been.

And yeah, I've never liked Jim Carrey. Just "Man on the Moon" and the first "Ace Ventura", which nobody is allowed to admit they like nowadays. He's pretty insufferable otherwise.

I mostly liked Kick-Ass 2 but he was pretty much a non-entity in that.

It's odd; while I, myself, am quite low-brow, I'm generally not a fan of paying to see other people's dick and fart jokes. They ain't better'n mine, for one thing.

I've always maintained that he's a hack who got lucky due to people's incredibly low standards. The 87 movies nobody remembers he made vs. the 4 or 5 they do kind of bears that out.
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:55 AM   #733
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I actually never saw Ace Ventura.

I liked both Dumb and Dumber movies (the prequel too). I liked Fun with Dick and Jane, Me Myself and Irene, Bruce Almighty and the Grinch...I’m sure I know how you feel about the Grinch.

I know I saw the Mask but don’t really remember much. Same with Liar, Liar.
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Old 05-25-2019, 03:25 AM   #734
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So when I started playing Sonic Adventure 2 on Gamecube a few days ago, I was wondering why I hadn't played it since I beat it around 15 years ago. After all, I've played through SA1 multiple times and I always have fun with it, so why hadn't I played the sequel more than once?

I'm almost done with it (Completed "Hero" Story and almost done with "Dark" Story), and now I know with 100% certainty: This game is NOT very good at all.

Don't get me wrong, there's good THINGS about it. The graphics are much-improved, the levels are colorful and much more intricate than the first game's, with lots of branching paths that can (sometimes) reward exploration. Some of the Sonic and Shadow levels are actually fun, but there's not enough of them and some of the later ones are f*cking ASS. Great to look at, mind you, but far more frustrating than fun to play. And almost every second you're playing as Knuckles or Rouge is f*cking TORTURE. That outer space level with Rouge can go f*ck itself forever, bubba. I am never, EVER playing that sh*t again. The Robotnik/Tails levels aren't TOO bad, but they're clunky as hell, and having Tails and Robotnik share the same gameplay style shows how badly rushed this game was. The shooting is inaccurate, the mech barely jumps a foot off the goddamn ground, and for some reason Tails controls way sloppier and clunkier than Robotnik. The style makes sense for Robotnik, but it doesn't fit Tails at all, and the way the levels are laid out makes them a goddamn chore.

One complaint about the first SA was that the levels were too short; they seriously over-compensated for this one, making most of the levels way too large - especially those god-awful treasure hunting missions. They weren't too bad in the first game because they generally only took 5 minutes, max, and the radar and hint system worked much better. These levels are 100 times larger and the radar only kicks in when you're practically right on top of whatever it is you're looking for... when it bothers to work at all! Which reminds me, Did You Know that the game contains a bug where the Treasure Radar will sometimes randomly NOT work at all no matter what, and you have to either die repeatedly or restart the level to get it to work again? I sure didn't, until I just now read about it, but it sure does explain a lot! Those levels are creatively designed but they're a chore to actually play, and they stop the game dead, every time. Every single time this game tossed a Knuckles or Rouge stage at me, I've felt nothing but irritation, with a smidge of hope that maybe this level won't be TOO annoying. But they always are. I impatiently want the next stage to be Sonic/Shadow, but I'd even settle for one of the Mech stages, clunky as they are, but first I have to suffer through the same "needle in a haystack" bullsh*t.

As for the "basic" levels, there's admittedly a lot to like, but they fall into some of the same problems the 2D Sonic games had (and apparently "perfected" some of the flaws the 3D series has since become infamous for). When playing SA1, I commented several times how there was NO "Trick you into going top speed and then randomly steer you right into an enemy or spike trap" shenanigans at work; well, I guess they thought the first game was missing some of that classic "joy", so those bits are back in spades (They usually toss you right into an enemy when you've conveniently got about 98 Rings, just to really rub it in ). And I hit maybe three spots in SA1 where I'd get tossed completely off the track and instantly die, but it happens ALL THE TIME in this one, especially the later, rail-grinding levels. Later games got much better about "magnetizing" Sonic to whatever surface he was running or grinding on, but this one demands tons of precision at high-speed which really isn't possible with how sh*tty the camera is. Once again, it wasn't perfect in SA1 but it's much worse in the sequel. In SA1, I had a blast zipping through the levels at speed, maneuvering through enemies, finding shortcuts, etc. I rarely died. In this game, everything kills you, always. Miss landing on a rail by a pubic hair's width? Dead. Get a little too close to the side edge of a tunnel while going too fast? Dead. It's one thing to die by enemies, but that doesn't happen much; the level design, crappy camera, and clumsy controls are what steals most of your lives. The game outright punishes you for trying to do what it says you should do: Go Fast. Because nearly every time you do, You're Dead. I've died missing rails, "falling" off of a track I was nearly dead-center on until I hit a curve, even glitching through the walls/floors. It's a mess. NOT Sonic 2006 levels of bullsh*t, but it's annoying.

Another thing that burns my ass is the controls. SA introduced the Homing Attack and the Light Speed Dash, and those are great things. This game f*cking ruins them by making them almost never work as intended. I can't count how many times I've been standing RIGHT next to an enemy, looking directly at it, only to do a Homing Attack and go flying right past him - or THROUGH him - into the abyss, and losing another life. That NEVER happened in SA1. Same with the Light Speed Dash; they simplified its use in this game, and that's nice... when it works. But again, I find that you need to be pretty much right on top of the first ring for it to work, otherwise you just go flying off the track and die. Even if you're facing straight, the game will just decide to send you flying right or left if you're not perfectly aligned - even if the button prompt for the Dash is visible, it doesn't matter, the game kills you whenever it feels like. The levels demand precision, and the controls simply are too spotty and inconsistent to make the game fun.

All in all, there's fun to be had in small doses but I do NOT like this game. It was rushed out one year after the first as a last-ditch effort to "save" the Dreamcast, and it shows. There are a LOT of good ideas, but they just don't come together to make the game fun, or at least more fun than annoying. Everything about it screams "rush job"; especially the goddamn cutscenes where the music is twice as loud as the voices, with two characters talking at the same time occasionally, to boot! What a mess. The music is also crummy and cheesy, and the Boss fights are lousy. The Knuckles vs. Rouge fight in particular is a sh*t-show from either side. Rule of thumb for SA2: Anything having to do with Knuckles or Rouge is f*cking terrible; everything else is at least playable even if some bits are annoying.

Compared to the first Sonic Adventure, SA2 is completely one step forward and two steps back. What's worse is, I'm playing the Gamecube port, which came out a couple years later, so if they had any inclination, they could have fixed some of these issues rather easily. Nope; instead they put all their energy and resources into a tacked-on two-player mode that I don't think anyone asked for or cared about.

It's very pretty to look at (by 2001-ish standards at least), but I can't in good conscience recommend anyone play it. SA1 holds up much, MUCH better than this one.

So at least the "mystery" is solved of "When did people start saying 3D Sonic games sucked?" Definitely right here. I'll finish it, but I already have no desire to ever touch it again. By far one of the worst Sonic games ever.

Shame. There's potential to it, but later games did everything much better, so there's absolutely no reason to even bother with this.
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Old 05-25-2019, 04:13 AM   #735
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So does that mean you’re not going for the 3D Green Hill stage?

I have both versions. I only got the GameCube one because I wanted to play Green Hill. I have the Action Replay for it so I used the code that unlocks 180 emblems. It was only $20 new because it was a Players Choice copy.

Now there’s Generations but back then a 3D Green Hill was a big deal because I knew I could never complete the game.

I agree the light speed dash is more picky. I was always careful to make sure the indicator was showing.

Also about the rails. I used to hate the last stage Final Rush but I actually got a decent hang of it. I think got an A rank on it later on.
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Old 05-25-2019, 04:59 AM   #736
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I can't imagine that one stage being worth trying to A-Rank those godawful Treasure Hunt stages. Once each was enough for me. I don't mind replaying the Sonic/Shadow or even Tails/Robotnik stages for emblems but those Knuckles/Rouge stages aren't worth the hassle of playing more than once. Anti-Bueno.

With Colors, Generations and even the first SA all existing, I don't see any reason to mess with this one. All it has going for it are some interesting ideas that later games pulled off with much greater success.

Ah well.
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:21 AM   #737
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Green Hill really isn't worth it. Trust me. I got all 180 emblems on the PS3 version and it felt nice to finally beat the game after all the years but it was a waste of energy.
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