OOTS on it's own merits? (or Lack therof)

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Yeah, the first movie stinks, and so did this one!

[TrickOrTreater]

can't we just go into this flick, and pretend that the first film never happened?

No.

Because why? Why should I afford people who got PAID to produce the garbage they produced the first go around any kind of mulligan?

"Oh sorry we totally got the FIRST one wrong even though we swore up and down before it came out it was awesome and you'd love it, but THIS time we're definitely gonna blow you away!"

Nearly all the same people who worked on the first one, made this one. They do not and will not get do-overs.

[Candy Kappa]

If you want to dismiss previous established canon and pretend this isn't the second movie, sure, that can be your cute little head-canon. But that still doesn't change that the PDOotS is a follow-up sequel to the first PD movie.

[letscook89]

Originally Posted by TrickOrTreater

No.

Because why? Why should I afford people who got PAID to produce the garbage they produced the first go around any kind of mulligan?

"Oh sorry we totally got the FIRST one wrong even though we swore up and down before it came out it was awesome and you'd love it, but THIS time we're definitely gonna blow you away!"

Nearly all the same people who worked on the first one, made this one. They do not and will not get do-overs.

Yeah first time I agree with you

[sethmartin]

To answer your question, you do not need to see the last movie to understand this one.

[IndigoErth]

Once bitten...

The work of the director, sure. He shouldn't have to be saddled with the crap that Liebesman did. But that's about it.

As for other big factors... After last time, the writers have something to prove in terms of better effort and care of it if they hope to earn any ounce of respect back. Not expecting perfection, no film has that, but a better effort for the main characters needs to be obvious. Even if the tone of the film isn't everyone's cup of tea. But if that's what they went with, at least do well for the Turtles in the process.

And Bay needs to prove that he stayed out of the way more. (Not expecting that to happen. )

[sethmartin]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Once bitten...

The work of the director, sure. He shouldn't have to be saddled with the crap that Liebesman did. But that's about it.

As for other big factors... After last time, the writers have something to prove in terms of better effort and care of it if they hope to earn any ounce of respect back. Not expecting perfection, no film has that, but a better effort for the main characters needs to be obvious. Even if the tone of the film isn't everyone's cup of tea. But if that's what they went with, at least do well for the Turtles in the process.

And Bay needs to prove that he stayed out of the way more. (Not expecting that to happen. )

It's definitely a better effort from everyone involved. Dave Green should have been given the last movie.

[sethmartin]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

Yes, except this movie ignores the first one all by itself. Shredder looks totally different- from scars and bald head, to younger Japanese man- and survives a fall from the top of a skyscraper in a metal suit- and the idea the ooze somehow got through the suit to him and healed and changed his appearance- is a cute little head cannon all unto itself. Eric Sachs? Pivotal part of the 1st movie's version of the origin, shredder' adopted son and heir, chief scientist responsible for the turtle's mutation, and killer of April's father- smacked by Vern with a microscope, falls unconscious in a lab, and is never heard from again. Instead, Baxter Stockman and his TCRI company are substituted in for Eric Sachs and Sachs industries as if they'd always been there.

No mention of a giant robot samurai falling from a building where a dangerous chemical was being released, no metion of Sachs, a major funder of the city's police force (according to the 1st movie), being involved with the foot, no explanation as to why Karai looks different and younger. Just 'Shredder lost to the TMNT and went to jail'. Yeah, no way in heck I'm accepting this as being in the same universe of the first movie.

Baxter is a real scientist in this, though. I don't know what Eric Sacks was suppose to be other than a wealthy business man. They do show a shot of Shredder on the ground from the first movie. But it's never explained how he survived the fall. I guess the mutagen on his finger healed him. Either way, this movie ignores it.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by sethmartin

Baxter is a real scientist in this, though. I don't know what Eric Sacks was suppose to be other than a wealthy business man. They do show a shot of Shredder on the ground from the first movie. But it's never explained how he survived the fall. I guess the mutagen on his finger healed him. Either way, this movie ignores it.

I can see some bits of the first movie surviving into this one's continuity, but the mutagen thing is never explained in this film, so it's headcanon unless stated. And the scene of him lying on the ground from his defeat could be from the events of this movie's backstory.

I just can't except we went from the disjointed ending of the last film, to completely different looking characters, major story changes, and plot elements being ignored. It just seems thing are too incompatible between the two movies for them to be in the same universe.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

I can see some bits of the first movie surviving into this one's continuity, but the mutagen thing is never explained in this film, so it's headcanon unless stated. And the scene of him lying on the ground from his defeat could be from the events of this movie's backstory.

Oh, do you mean the mutagen that are stated in the movie to self-repair people on a cellular level, the mutagen that heals Splinter's broken body within seconds. The mutagen that was seen on Shredder's fingers after he had fallen down the building, and clenching his hand coated in said mutagen. His hand that is not gloved with hard armor but a softer material?

Yeah, that mutagen.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Oh, do you mean the mutagen that are stated in the movie to self-repair people on a cellular level, the mutagen that heals Splinter's broken body within seconds. The mutagen that was seen on Shredder's fingers after he had fallen down the building, and clenching his hand coated in said mutagen. His hand that is not gloved with hard armor but a softer material?

Yeah, that mutagen.

http://orig06.deviantart.net/78f6/f/...pa-da4hdtw.jpg

It's still doesn't work, in my mind. The hand was still fully covered by a gauntlet and glove that seems too thick for the ooze to seep through, plus the fact that the impact that shattered the ooze canister would have reduced Shredder to mush. And even if the ooze did get through the gantlet, the few seconds it'd take the ooze to seep through, he'd already be dead; a splattered mess inside the armor beyond the ooze's ability to heal. So even if we swallow the idea it was the ooze that healed him (Which is not stated anywhere officially) The ooze not only magically healed a bloody and mangled corpse with the consistency of hamburger back to life, but restored his hair, made him shorter, and reduced his scars down to one conveniently placed one across his face?

And even if we swallow all that, there's still the amazing vanishing Sacks and Sacks Inc, Karai's magical mutation into a different appearance with no ooze, Baxter having always been a shredder minion,and several other silly plot points that change between the two movies. I'm not buying the idea these two flicks are in the same universe.

By the way, I'm not defending either movie. I think they're both smelly balls of 'so bad it's good' b-movie cheese, nowhere on Par with the 1990 film. I look forward to the day we get a non-bay non Platinum dunes TMNT. I just think 2 is slightly better than one, and can stand on it's own a bit.

[Candy Kappa]

The Turtles and April survived the fall as well.

[letscook89]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

Hanging on the a slowly falling spire, instead of just directly slamming into the ground. Though I suppose that's another one of the first movie's dumb flaws.

Oh boy, I just realized how stupid the first movie is...

[sethmartin]

Yeah the turtles and April were on a spiral colliding into building which broke their fall. Also they needed that moment for Raph to give a big speech about how he was sorry that he was always so hard on the turtles even though it was never present in the film.

[Candy Kappa]

Which had slow-motion falling, but the Turtles spoke normally.

Guess super-speed speech is another super power we can chalk up the PD Turtles have as well as being bullet proof and super strong.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Guess super-speed speech is another super power

And what did it sound like to April. Or was she screaming at super speed, too, I forget.

[IndigoErth]

Kind of agree, though personally I'd have taken it further and just made it out to be post-Shredder years entirely, with older Turtles since they don't look like a bunch of kids anyhow.

Save themselves some grief by aiming for safer waters where they might have gotten away with just making up new stories. Instead, no... they decided to strap a fresh steak to their collective ass and jump into shark infested shallow waters and proceed to screw with the origin and other important things.