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Old 08-12-2017, 06:10 PM   #1
Ulisa
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Any good ideas from the Red Sky era?

So, the Red Sky era is usually regarded as the most controversial of the FW cartoon. I know people that loved the change, I know people that despised it. I'm personally in the middle. There were things about it that I loved, there were things that I hated. I don't watch it as much as I do the rest of the series but that's not to say it does not have its merits. However, what I have found is that it definitely had some IDEAS that I would have liked to see expanded upon that weren't. I feel it was more the execution than the plots themselves that were bad (with the exception of the secondary mutations)

The idea of the mutant prejudice getting worse was a good angle and I am a big fan of the episode "Cry H.A.V.O.C" because of the idea of a mutant sanctuary dividing the turtles. It's nice to see them split in two groups because of difference of opinion and I liked seeing the two groups interact with one another. Leonardo and Michelangelo tend to be my favorite team up so I enjoyed them working off one another and Raphael and Donatello seem to have the same idea of humans in this series so that felt like a natural pair up as well. I just feel they could have expanded it a lot more than they did. This is a series known for all their mutants. I would have liked to see more of the old mutants return.

Shredder becoming more threatening, especially regarding his famous "I never bluff" scene was a nice addition. I do enjoy Shredder as a comedic villain in this series but it was nice to see him suddenly take things more seriously as well. Under that same token, the turtles use their weapons more in this era, so that was nice to see as well.

Also, while I was not a huge fan of Dregg, I found I did like a few of the one-shot villains they introduced in these seasons. I would have liked to see more development on them and maybe them used more than once but it was a nice change from the "mad scientist of the week" type of villains. Some of them definitely had a BTAS feel (Chronos was essentially "The Clock King") but I don't necessarily think that was a bad thing.

Lastly, I have to admit, I like the idea they had for a finale-touch--the turtles being recognized as full ninjas and masters in their own right. It lends itself to a very well done conclusion, but I would have preferred to see more thought put into it; it seemed a little "tacked on" but if expanded could have worked really well.

Any thoughts?
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:19 PM   #2
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The episodes themselves were mostly good although I prefer Season 8 over the Lord Dregg era.

It was time for a change, and it was interesting to see the original cartoon try to be a regular action cartoon in its last few seasons.
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:33 PM   #3
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No.

Well, maybe this mutant organisation from the future. But everything else was either cliche, badly executed or both.
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:35 PM   #4
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I like:

1. Lord Dregg (Tony Jay was the best)
2. The idea of turtles mutating further
3. Shredder becoming more dangerous and bloodthirsty.
4. The new aesthetics and soundtrack
5. The theme song (nowhere as much the original, but still good)
6.Irma, Vernone and Burne being phased out as they wouldnt fit the serious tone of the two final seasons.
7. The turtles becoming ninja masters at the end
8. Shredder and Krang becoming very close and caring for each other.
8. Side characters such as Krakus, Landor and Merrick.
9. The consistent and highly detailed animation compared to previous seasons.
10. The return of highly serialized storytelling since season 2.
11. More action, with the turtles using their weapons more often and less slapstick.
12. More info adding to the lore of the FW series (e.g. Bezerko being the one who built the technodrome, Krangs android body being based off a similar looking Dimension X alien).
13. Rat King, General Traag and Casey Jones returning (my favourite secondary characters in the FW series).

Im pretty biased obviously since I am a FW fanboy, and love even the worst episodes such as in European Vacation. Despite that however, I think that the Red Sky seasons are much better than what people give it credit for and have alot of legitimately good content.

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Old 08-12-2017, 07:37 PM   #5
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I think one of the best thing about the Red Sky era is that the show was able grow as a cartoon the same way that its viewers did. Kids like myself who had become teenagers by the final seasons were able to enjoy it as a show that had became much more appealing to teenagers than the early seasons were.
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:24 PM   #6
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It was not growing - it was useless "grittying" (if that's the word, if no, I just invented a new one, yay me), for the sake of it.

Personally, I have watched original seasons when I was a kid and RS seasons when I was teenager and I liked previous seasons more. RS didn't strike me as mature, as much as "trying hard to be gritty and dark (but constantly failing at it)".
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:41 PM   #7
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The two ideas I enjoyed from this era were the introduction of Lord Dregg and probably the evolution of Shredder. However, I do agree with the general consensus that they felt out of place with the sudden tone shift.

I do like Red Sky for what it was and actually, I prefer its theme over the original FW theme, but at the same time, I don't like the seasons. While more action-oriented, the FW series got its charm from the dry humor and character relationships. By stripping the show of most of it, it just made it a generic action show.

I would be interested in seeing Dregg done properly (because his Nick incarnation sucked big time) or any of the villains as with Next Mutation. There was potential, it just didn't bode well for me.
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:43 PM   #8
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I do like Red Sky for what it was and actually, I prefer its theme over the original FW theme, but at the same time, I don't like the seasons. While more action-oriented, the FW series got its charm from the dry humor and character relationships. By stripping the show of most of it, it just made it a generic action show.
Thank you.
That was what I've been looking for, when I was trying to figure out why RS sucked, in my opinion (besides, boring new characters and stories that is).
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:41 PM   #9
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There were plenty of good ideas to come from season 8. I look down on season 9 because the two classic foursomes(Channel Six except for April and Technodrome gang) were removed and lacking characters were added in the forms of Dregg and Carter as well as that poor plot point secondary mutation.Shredder was more menacing yet only got 7 episodes and did not feel like a finality with the character. He showed up Dregg but would one say Dregg won out? I wanted so bad to see Shredder defeat Dregg! In a sword fight especially!

Good ideas?
Hall of Science was a good base for the Technodrome gang. However, Beserko recently moving in was way too convenient for serving plot points. Now, Beserko dimension hoping looking for Krang and blocking Shredder, Krang, Bebop, and Rocksteady's entry into the building? Yeah, that would have worked! Beserko would have been a better character than Dregg to take over as the main villain as he had the connection to Krang and had unfinished business with both the Turtles and Krang. He was the boss of the Dimension X Assault handheld game after all that had him flanked by Bebop, Rocksteady and The Foot. Beserko has a lot of unused potential from that series and it can be utilized in other versions if ever realized. He was a major force that needed more attention and his single appearance outside the game he was overshadowed by Shredder. Shredder wanting Krang back that desperately was odd to me considering thier dialog banter and Shredder being quick to betray Krang when he had the means to. Perhaps it was because he still needed Krang as a means to resources.

Rat King was badass in his final appearance. He was also a wildcard but always evil despite what some fans claim. Wrath of The Rat King appearance showcased his crazy side well. He knows something Shredder does not and that is the location of the lair. I always considered him the #2 villain at least when Shredder and Krang are a team.

Titanus and his H.A.V.O.C organization actually if only temporarily duped half of the team and split them up. Krakus brought up some interesting possibilities which I ran with in my own fan fiction continuation. April saved his father. Why not make it Burne's future son? His age can be played with as the teases of turning fifty could be just a rib at him for getting older. There is also Landor and Merrick , why not have them work with Krakus in the future? Perhaps the pair are married and the timeframe Krakus is from they are in their forties while Landor might be chief of police. See there is stuff to work off of.

Dark Water needed further usage. I had the idea that Agent Bishop could have come out of this and ironically Dark Water goes form the unfortunate single appearance in the 1987 cartoon to being hired by Agent Bishop in IDW. I hope to see more of them in IDW and maybe have Colonel Wesley Knight turn into Megavolt.

The Starheart is like the Eye of Sarnath and Turnstone as relics of power. I can see the reformed Galaxons taking on a Guardians of The Galaxy type role if IDW were ever use them.


Season 8 was chock full of excellence!

Chronos was a cool concept. A guy who went mad after the TMNT stopped him from robbing a bank as a revenge plot. He turned his revenge on the TMNT. However, how did he know the location of the lair? Shredder never successfully found it! Rat King knowing makes sense,but Chronos for the sake of a plot point? No! He could have lured Splinter out near 13th street but not gone directly to the lair. Anyway, I loved the idea of his character just flet Dregg being shoehorned in the final minute of the episode was unnecessary.

Shredder returning and making a three sided fight with the Turtles and Dregg. Aside from the lack of a duel between him and Dregg it was disappointing that he and Krang while trapped in Dimension X with Dregg did not immediately return like Dregg did. It felt like they would have tried a comeback just after Divide and Conquer. As awesome as it was there were some thing left to be desired. Another was using the 1988-1993(classic look of the 1987 Turtles) in the two episodes A Turtle In Time and Turtles To The Second Power. A missed opportunity.

The Day The Earth Disappeared had an interesting concept that had some similarity to the Ultimate Drako saga of being split up in different realities apparantly lost forever needing to find the nexus point. That could be done with the Technodrome in the future.

Krang's android body? How is it in the technodrome? a spare and Krang's broke down shortly after Shredder Triumphant? It did give a bit of poetic justice for the TMNT needing Technodrome gang in besting Dregg once and for all. I just wanted Shredder to engage Dregg in battle and win.

I am one of the few who's favorite TMNT theme song is the techno enhanced red sky theme. I like the beat and the red sky season 8 epsiodes interlaced with the first film. Its epic!

Those are all of my favorite concepts. There are several I love. It is probably it is lacking Dregg, Carter and mutations. So many bad moves in season 9. Season 10 had missed opportunities as I mentioned above while a few good episodes.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:24 AM   #10
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I personally think Lord Dregg was the best thing to come from that era.
As opposed to most of the villains from the show, he was a competent one who got results. It'd be cool to see him brought back in another iteration (and not be just a in-name-only character).

Plus, the revamped intro was kinda catchy.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:59 AM   #11
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I thought seasons 8 and 10 were good for their time. I agree with what Ulisa said. I also liked the three-way battle between Shredder, Dregg and the Turtles in mid 10. Don't care much for nine, though, as a lot of changes were introduced abruptly and is the least enjoyable season, but there were a few great episodes such as Split Second. Dregg was a decent villain, imo, at least in 10 when he was very cunning and one step ahead most of the time. Didn't mind Carter and thought he got some good character development in The Showdown.
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Old 08-13-2017, 11:06 AM   #12
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They had some good ideas and concepts but didn't execute them so well. Getting rid of familiar cast quickly such a Channel 6's crew, Shredder, Krang and Bebop and Rocksteady for Lord Dregg and Carter never made much sense. The problem with the show getting stale was that it was too formulaic and too episodic. It was outdated around 1992 or so. No one asked for Lord Dregg or Carter of all people. Change isn't always a good thing. Also, they tried harder to make the Turtles look more badass and mature... but the fights were still kinda goofy and the Turtles still cracked lame jokes at times. It didn'y have a distinctive feel to it. They really made it obvious they were competing with Batman TAS.

Also, all the fights with aliens and those turtle and carter mutations... let's remidn ourselves that the show has the word "NINJA" in the title. It didn't feel like the Ninja Turtles much anymore once season 9 rolled in.

I still liked Red Sky, but could have been better. Season 8 was the best one and season 10 was good too. Insane Dregg was pretty cool.
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:20 PM   #13
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Seeing how they're some of the few seasons I know I've watched in full, let me think...

... I liked April's new outfit... The artstyle was much better than the previous seasons... There's not as much awful "comedy" to groan at.... That's about it, it's not really much better or worse where it counts.

Dark Water and Dregg found their ways into subsequent iterations, even if one ended up being potrayed as a generic mercenary group with little to relation to what they were in the show, while the other had way more to do with Maligna for some odd reason. So I guess that counts as "good enough" ideas?
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Old 08-13-2017, 04:00 PM   #14
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*More action again
*April leaving Channel 6 to work for Newspan
*Abandoned Technodrome in the last episode
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Old 08-14-2017, 09:36 AM   #15
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*April leaving Channel 6 to work for Newspan
April didn't work for Newspan. It would've been cool since the boss seemed like a Negaburne if you will. She was a freelance reporter who worked for anyone who would pay her for her work.
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:02 AM   #16
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There is nothing from these seasons that I want to see adapted to IDW.
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:04 AM   #17
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There is nothing from these seasons that I want to see adapted to IDW.
For real? Check out my season 8 centric post. That echoes of my distain for TMNT products 1997-2000, but I do have an argument above for season 8 red sky and I thought Dark Water would have helped curb your interest with its untapped potential.
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:26 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87 View Post
For real? Check out my season 8 centric post. That echoes of my distain for TMNT products 1997-2000, but I do have an argument above for season 8 red sky and I thought Dark Water would have helped curb your interest with its untapped potential.
Nah. EPF did the whole "hunt the mutants" story better. Don't care about Dregg, or any of his ilk, or Carter, so nope.
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:53 AM   #19
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Best idea they had during the Red Sky seasons was to cancel the show.
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:11 AM   #20
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Best idea they had during the Red Sky seasons was to cancel the show.
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