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Old 04-14-2007, 05:37 PM   #1
DrSpengler
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The TMNT Mirage Continuity Timeline (complete?)

The Mirage Comics continuity timeline has MOVED!


As mentioned a bit back, the timeline became so massive that it actually exceeded the character limit for this post. As such, I moved it to my site, TMNT Entity, and gave it a facelift. It is now purdier than ever!

So far as discussion goes, I'd prefer it if we kept it to this thread and not the comments section of my site. I say this not because I don't want your feedback there, but because discussion of this sort of thing is a LOT easier via a forum than via blog comments. It would just be easier for everyone, this way.


And last but not least, a BIG THANKS to EVERYONE in this thread who has helped with this project. Three years and counting and it just gets bigger and better. I appreciate all the help and feedback you guys have been giving me and look forward to more in the future. Fresh observations regarding placement seem to be made all the time, so who knows how long it will be before this timeline is "perfect".

But rest assured, it get a little closer every day.
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Old 04-14-2007, 05:37 PM   #2
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*scrubbed by user for notes being out of date*
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Old 04-14-2007, 06:42 PM   #3
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Good job Doc! I'm going to have to see how I've got mine ordered in comparison now!
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Old 04-14-2007, 06:44 PM   #4
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Goodness gracious man...I am very impressed...your logic in placement seems very nice to me...theres a few things Id like to check on but overall great job...
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Old 04-14-2007, 07:10 PM   #5
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Please, double check. There's so much material that I'm bound to have mixed up somewhere along the line.

Also, I don't own the second printing of the Michealangelo (microseries) #1 which contained a short Christmas story or the Tales Vol. 1 TPB which contained an additional Nobody short story, so I wasn't able to place those in the continuity.

If anybody DOES own them, please, help me figure out where they belong.
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Old 04-15-2007, 09:59 AM   #6
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That's pretty damn good. I'll re-read it just to make sure you didnt miss anything but, pretty damn good none the less.

*Edit*: Found one: What about the two part Casey Jones solo arc?
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Old 04-15-2007, 11:51 AM   #7
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Great job, dude. Didn't someone post an age time line for the turtles as well somewhere on these boards? It would be really cool if the two of you could combine these to give us the ultimate all-encompassing turtles time-line. Or maybe you're the one who posted that and just decided to split them up?

Either way, excellent work.
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Old 04-15-2007, 12:44 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Aztec General View Post
That's pretty damn good. I'll re-read it just to make sure you didnt miss anything but, pretty damn good none the less.

*Edit*: Found one: What about the two part Casey Jones solo arc?
Oh, it's in there. Check "Post Return to New York, Pre City at War". That story, "North By Down East", was actually taken from "Plastron Cafe" because that series got cancelled before they could finish publishing it.

Also, how old were the TMNT in the very first issue? I'm sure I read it somewhere but I can't remember.

I need to know so that I can more accurately place "Fifteen Years Later" (since the TMNT are 15 years old in that story).
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Old 04-15-2007, 01:47 PM   #9
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That's really impressive that you put all that together. Good job!
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Old 04-15-2007, 02:45 PM   #10
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Didn't Peter Laird say that the three-part "The River" from Volume 1 wasn't in continuity?
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Old 04-15-2007, 03:56 PM   #11
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Great list!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSpengler View Post
Also, I don't own the second printing of the Michealangelo (microseries) #1 which contained a short Christmas story or the Tales Vol. 1 TPB which contained an additional Nobody short story, so I wasn't able to place those in the continuity.

If anybody DOES own them, please, help me figure out where they belong.
The Nobody story:
The Turtles and Nobody are aware of each other (well, duh)
The Turtles basically run into Nobody while out on patrol.
I had to check #48 to see if anyone there referred to Tales #2 as something like "the last time we met", but nope. So, it can go anywhere during a time period where the Turtles are living in Northhampton, sometime after Tales #2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSpengler View Post
Also, how old were the TMNT in the very first issue? I'm sure I read it somewhere but I can't remember.

I need to know so that I can more accurately place "Fifteen Years Later" (since the TMNT are 15 years old in that story).
Splinter says: "...the mission for which I have trained you these past thirteen years"

In Vol. 1 #7, the Turtles are "fifteen and one half years old", according to Splinter

(Other ages: Return to New York is three years after #1, and according to a later letter column, Shades of Grey takes place "sometime shortly after issue 21 and Return to New York left off")


Addition: Challenges, which takes place sometime early in the Exile part of the chronology. But I'd put it after Tales #1, since that's shortly after they've moved in.

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Old 04-15-2007, 04:41 PM   #12
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Very nice work! I might use some of the Tales Vol. 2 placements when I get to that in my own timeline.

Shelf there was a thread a while back with something like this, I posted a detailed WIP timeline including months/years that had the TMNT's ages in there, maybe that's the thread you were thinking of? It's very WIP, I'm covered all of Vol. 1 up to RTNY and all of Tales Vol. 1, so the dates may be revised a bit (Shadow's age in some of the Tales issues may require me to re-work a few things later on to try and make that fit with the TMNT being 12 in 1981 that was set in Tales Vol. 2 #1).

That project I'm doing in my spare time and it only covers the definately in continuity issues of Vol. 1, the 2 volumes of Tales, Vol.2 and Vol. 4, so DrSpengler has a lot of stuff on there that I won't have in mine since I don't own those issues (Turtle Soup, the Casey issues, the Usagi stuff, the small back ups from some of the early Vol. 1 issues and specials and I only have the collected books, etc)

The Turtles in Vol. 1 #1 are nearly 15. Splinter says it took them a year to reach their current size, then an undefined amount of time passed, then he trained them for 13 years.

The TMNT are 15 1/2 in the space story #4-7, then you have the Mike special. The Leo special/Vol. 1 #10 is a year later (16 1/2), then return to NY is another year after that (17 1/2). This fits with them being 15 in #1 as Leo says it's been about 3 years since #1 at that point (just over 2 1/2 years rounded up). So the "15 Years Later" story would probably actually come between #1 and #2!

Btw has it ever been confirmed exactly what is in continuity?

We know for sure all of Tales Vol. 1 and 2 as well as the 5 specials (Raph, Fugitoid, Mike, Don, Leo) all of Vol. 2 and 4.
From Vol. 1 we know for certain #1-15, 19-21, 27-29, 45-62
Other possibles are #17, 43 and probably some others like those on your list but I don't think they've ever been declared official cannon like the other issues have.
Has an official status ever been given to things like the Casey Jones: North by Downeast, Turtle Soup, Shell Shock, Challenges, the Usagi crossovers, etc? If they are then I'd better try and track them down asap!

Edit: And just to clear up one error I can see; Tales Vol.2 #2 takes place in what you would call "Vol. 3" as in a letters page Murphy said it took place in 1996 (Murphy said he couldn't remember why at that point) which places it after Vol. 2 when they have the new sewer lair.

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Old 04-15-2007, 07:04 PM   #13
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Fixed that Tales Vol. 2 #2 error. Also, kudos onthe extensive age breakdown. I placed "Fifteen Years Later" where you recommended.

Interesting thing about that story, is that the TMNT run across Chet while on their way to a battle with the Foot (Leo says to an angry Raph, "Save it for the Foot"). Personally, I like to think that this story takes place during #1, while the TMNT are on their way to their showdown with the Shredder. But that's my personal theory.

I e-mailed Dan a while back and asked about definitive canon. He gave me a very cursory list off the top of his head, saying that Laird has yet to determine precisely what he wants to keep and what he wants to cast aside. Dan's list of "for sures" was:

TMNT Vol. 1 #1-15, 17, 19-21, 45-62
TMNT Vol. 2 #1-13
TMNT Vol. 4 #1-28
All 5 Micro Series
Tales Vol. 1 #1-7
Tales Vol. 2 #1-31

A very "bare bones" list, but it's not like he had the time to go all in depth and craft a list like the one in this thread. The dude has a life, after all.


In regards to the River, it was referenced in "Shades of Grey" (I think, or maybe an early City at War story), which would imply that at the time it was wholely considered continuity.

However, Laird seems to think less of Veitch's work, lately. In a Vol. 4 letters page, someone recommended that "Sky Highway" be adapted into an episode of the 2k3 cartoon, to which Laird replied (to the effect of) "I have absolutely no plans to adapt any of Veitch's stories, though they may some day be collected in their own trade".

Whether this implies they're non-canon or not, I dunno. However, they certainly work with the canon just fine and are referenced by the "definate" material.


Oh, and Sparvid, thanks for the Nobody info. Before I work it in there, could you tell me the title of the story? Thanks!
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Old 04-16-2007, 01:46 AM   #14
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Thanks! And I must say that theory on the story happening on the way to the battle makes a lot of sense, I really like it.

Guess Peter Laird hasn't been working on his timeline much as that's the same list that was going around about the time Vol. 4 started. We'll probably only know for sure when he eventually re-releases the stories in remastered trades.

The River was referenced in "Sons of the Silent Age", but it was one page that could be totally removed and not affect the story at all so if Peter Laird wants to remove it from continuity then it wouldn't affect anything.
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:09 PM   #15
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Oh, and Sparvid, thanks for the Nobody info. Before I work it in there, could you tell me the title of the story? Thanks!
The only thing on the first splash page is "Tales of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" and the credits, no story title. No title listed on ninjaturtles.com either.
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:13 PM   #16
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The only thing on the first splash page is "Tales of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" and the credits, no story title. No title listed on ninjaturtles.com either.
Thanks!

Just one more question. You said that this takes place when the TMNT are in Northampton. Is this during their exile to NH or when they were staying their voluntarily after RTNY?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but since I don't have the thing for reference I gotta be thorough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Thanks! And I must say that theory on the story happening on the way to the battle makes a lot of sense, I really like it.
One thing about that I just noticed. In the "Fifteen Years Later" story, the kid's name was Chet. In the future story by Peter Laird, "Old Times", Donatello's computer system is also named Chet. Wondering if there's any signifigance to that or just a unique coincidence.
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:27 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DrSpengler View Post
Thanks!

Just one more question. You said that this takes place when the TMNT are in Northampton. Is this during their exile to NH or when they were staying their voluntarily after RTNY?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but since I don't have the thing for reference I gotta be thorough.
Err, beats me? It can go either way, but since it's collected with the original Tales comics, I'm guessing that it would fit best somewhere close to them.
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:29 PM   #18
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Cool!

I put it in with the "Exile" era. Thanks for the info!


EDIT:

Also, added placement of Gizmo and the Fugitoid #1-2.
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Old 04-16-2007, 03:43 PM   #19
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Stories from the Shell Shock TPB, not already on the list. I don't know which of these were originally printed somewhere else, and if so where. Bold text copied from official site:

---

"Bottoming Out" - A TMNT tale by Kevin Eastman, Jim Lawson, George Hagenaur, Eric Talbot and Steve Lavigne. 4 pages.

The Turtles are in a forest practising with Splinter (basically playing hide and seek, trying to find him). At first, it could be either in Central Park or in Northampton, no buildings are shown. They come across a man passed out on a park bench (so, more likely Central Park). Based on their general attitude towards the training ("I hate this exercise, Splinter always wins", "Remember, we're supposed to find him before he finds us") and a somewhat despaired reaction when they fail to find Splinter, I'd put this fairly early in the timeline. They're wearing the regular bandanas though.

---

"The Treaty" - Usagi Yojimbo and Leonardo team-up by Stan Sakai. 10 pages.

Leonardo is on his way back to April's apartment in New York when he's transported to Usagi's world. He recognizes Usagi from Turtle Soup #1 and Usagi #10, according to the editor's note. Usagi is surprised to hear Leonardo mentioning the existance of his brothers, Splinter, and New York City.

---

"Junkman" - A Donatello story by Michael Dooney. 10 pages.

The Turtles are living in their sewer lair.

---

"New York Ninja" - Donatello solo adventure by Kevin Eastman, Peter Laird, Ryan Brown and Steve Lavigne. 10 pages.

New York. Donatello is hiding from Raphael (damn, they really like hide and seek, don't they?). The loser of the game will have to do the dishes for a week. Do they have running water and dishes in the sewer, or does this mean that they're living at April's?

---

"New Comic Day" - A Michaelangelo tale by Peter Laird, Jim Lawson and Steve Lavigne. 6 pages.

April's apartment. Michaelangelo comes back with a bunch of comics he's bought (umm, how?) and is attacked by the chair before he wakes up from his nightmare. Although, considering the last page shows the chair "really alive" when being alone, it might not be in continuity.

---

"Teen Techno Trio Plus One" - An alternate universe TMNT story by Don Simpson. 9 pages.

Obviously not in continuity.

---

"Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" - The Turtles retrieve a lost sword by Kevin Eastman, Peter Laird, Ryan Brown and Steve Lavigne. 5 pages.

First chapter in a story which continues in "Quest for Dreams Lost", which appears to feature non-Mirage characters. I don't have that one, but it could be out of continuity. It seems a bit weird for Splinter and two of the Turtles to be in a row boat in a Central Park pond, even if it is in the middle of the night. Pretty hard to stay hidden out there, no matter how much of a ninja you are.

---

"Stompers" - All four Turtles in a gang battle by Kevin Eastman, Michael Dooney and Steve Lavigne. 12 pages.

The Turtles appears to be living in the sewers. Local crime lord to Leonardo: "I've got a few connections in this town - I'm sure the Foot organization has some meaning to you... ninja." Putting this after Vol. 1 #1, right?

---

"Terror by Transmat!" - The TMNT, Fugitoid and Utroms battle the Triceratons by Kevin Eastman, Peter Laird, Ryan Brown and Steve Lavigne. 10 pages.

The Turtles are visiting the Utrom home world and Fugitoid on a separate occasion ("A lot more relaxing than the first time we came here").

---

"O Deed" - Michaelangelo's nightmare by Michael Zulli, Stephen Murphy and Eric Talbot. 6 pages.

As it says: Michaelangelo has a nightmare. He's sleeping in a bed in a room with a window, with Splinter being close enough to enter as soon as Michaelangelo wakes up.

---

"D'Ants Fever" - The TMNT visit a seedy bar filled with aliens by Kevin Eastman, Peter Laird and Steve Lavigne. 8 pages.

During #5, after they've been talking to Fugitoid about where they came from. It could technically go before they enter the bar showed in #5 (this story begins with them finding a bar and ends with them about to leave it), but then it seems a bit weird they they are astonished seeing all different alien creatures in the #5 bar, if they've already met a bunch in this story.

---

"Don't Judge a Book..." - The Turtles prepare for a Halloween party but are interrupted by burglars by Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird. 8 pages.

They're in April's apartment when the burglars break into the Second Time Around. (Burglar who's checking if somebody is home: "Ah... Is Chet there?" )

---

"Not One Word" - Donatello has a bad day by Eric Talbot. 10 pages.

They're living in April's apartment.

---

"Splinter in the Eye of God?" - Splinter contemplates his life by Michael Zulli and Stephen Murphy. 8 pages.

As opposed to the earlier Zulli story, the Turtles look less humanoid here (no teeth, for example). Splinter is meditating in a regular looking room with a door and roof beams, doesn't look "sewer-y".

---

"Night Life" - The Turtles capture some cop killers by Kevin Eastman, Ryan Brown and Steve Lavigne. 6 pages.

"Saved by the shell" - is that one of the earliest shell puns? New York. After a policeman is killed by a gang, the rest of the police sees the Turtles who flee ("I think we finally lost the police - That was close, the closest yet!") At the end one of them (can't see who, but not Leonardo) wonders if they did the right thing, letting the killers live (but capturing them and leaving them to the police to find), and get's the responses "I guess so" and "We did. We had no right to do anything else". I don't know whether or not their stance on killing changed in the early days, and if this helps with the chronology)

---

"It's a Gas" - Mike and Raph get a snoot full of nitrous oxide while trying to prevent a burgalry by Eric Talbot and Steve Lavigne. 6 pages.

New York. The place the burglars break into? "Chet's Medical Supplies"

---

"Meanwhile... 1,000,000 B.C." - Renet and the Turtles have some prehistoric fun by Michael Dooney. 2 pages.

While caught in the past during Tales #7.
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Old 04-16-2007, 07:23 PM   #20
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Oh man, I don't have the Shell Shock collection.

Gonna have to eBay it. Thanks for the info. So many stories, though, I'm gonna wait until I have a copy before I attempt to put it all together.

That Usagi story alone could completely change where I've placed the other Usagi crossovers.

EDIT:

Alright, I just went on eBay and won a copy of Shell Shock for $36 bucks. Not bad, considering the thing is 200 pages. I'll get it soon (hopefully) and work it into the timeline!
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