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View Poll Results: Do you believe in reincarnation?
Yes, I do. 3 15.79%
No, I don't. 7 36.84%
I'm open to the idea of it. 9 47.37%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-26-2017, 02:35 PM   #21
FredWolfLeonardo
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Yeah, but we're assuming reincarnation is off the table.
So that means all souls were created at once, and they all exist now, but just aren't here. And that after they're here they're sorted either to The Good Place or The Bad Place.

And then...
I guess it would be troublesome to pinpoint an exact point in time when the soul was created since the soul is said to be a non physical entity in the Abrahamic faiths and non-physical "things" are theoretically not bound by the physical laws of time, so you would be right to say they were all "created at once" and exist now.

And as for then, I believe both places are eternal so yeah....
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Old 07-26-2017, 02:51 PM   #22
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This could go on forever seen as no-one actually knows for sure so a lot of speculation.
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Old 07-26-2017, 02:53 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
Yeah, but we're assuming reincarnation is off the table.
So that means all souls were created at once, and they all exist now, but just aren't here. And that after they're here they're sorted either to The Good Place or The Bad Place.

And then...
Is there a third option between reincarnation being off the table and all souls being created at once?
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:09 PM   #24
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Is there a third option between reincarnation being off the table and all souls being created at once?
I don't see why not!
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:19 PM   #25
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Could reincarnated souls that have been to Heaven and chose reincarnation, reincarnate and be bad enough to go to Hell their second time around?

If so, invariably, all souls would EVENTUALLY all end up in Hell or infinitely content in Heaven. If reincarnation was mandatory and souls could be bad in their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, whatever go-around, then all souls would statistically ALL end up in Hell for sure.

Right?
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:23 PM   #26
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Could reincarnated souls that have been to Heaven and chose reincarnation, reincarnate and be bad enough to go to Hell their second time around?
The question is, would anyone in heaven even ask to be reincarnated? If we go by the definition where heaven is a place of ultimate happiness, I think everyone would be too content to desire re-incarnation.
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:29 PM   #27
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I don't see why not!
Cool because I like options. And only having the two notions of reincarnation or flip side all souls created at once was to limiting for fun. Maybe add in soul created at conception. And a fourth and fifth option if anyone's got 'em.
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:37 PM   #28
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The question is, would anyone in heaven even ask to be reincarnated? If we go by the definition where heaven is a place of ultimate happiness, I think everyone would be too content to desire re-incarnation.
Think, the ending of "What Dreams May Come."
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:45 PM   #29
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Think, the ending of "What Dreams May Come."
Haven't seen the film but it certainly sounds interesting.
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:07 PM   #30
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My two cents (and this is coming from someone for whom reincarnation is part of my belief system): first off, reincarnation is not as simple as black and white, though the concept can be explained with the symbol of the Yin-Yang. Life in the physical is the black part, while the soul's stay in the "resting place" between lives is the white part. But the knowledge and experiences gain in life are carried into death, and the memory of the soul's growth is carried into the physical world. Yes, we CAN remember past lives, and that knowledge can be relevant and help us to grow and gain enlightenment in the present life.

Secondly, the spirit CAN choose not to go on again, if it has learned all that it needs to, or simply wishes to remain in the resting place or "Summerland" as it is known in my faith. Once it has been perfected through enough lives and wisdom, it returns to the source, the "Oversoul" or divine essence if you will. New souls are created all the time as well, so there is always one for each individual. This is why some people can remember multiple lives ("old souls") while others are "new souls" on their first or second (or whatever) incarnation. There is not some set number of souls to go around, it waxes and wanes as new ones come into being and old ones complete their cycle of lives and return to the eternal divine spirit. The number of lives it takes varies according to the choices each soul makes in each new life, but those choices and experiences can either advance its growth or hinder or even reverse it if the lessons for that life are not learned (meaning it has to go through similar experiences again in the next incarnation) or the choices made are negative ones.

Third, karma plays a HUGE part in all of this, as each spirit is born into circumstances and traits that are determined by its actions and choices in the previous one. This means that what we do in this life will greatly influence what we become in the next. No, this does not mean being reborn as an animal, although the soul can take an animal-like form during the time between lives depending on their basic nature. In other words, someone whose inner nature is cold, devious and immoral might have a snake-like form in the "afterlife"; seers have sometimes seen newly departed spirits wearing animal skins- this may be where the idea of reincarnating as animals came from.
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:57 PM   #31
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No. I'd need to see proof of it to believe in it.
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:45 PM   #32
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It's not something that can be proven objectively, unfortunately. But there is evidence of it in many cultures, and there are plenty of instancesof individuals who can remember places, dates, and names from past lives. I've done a few regressions myself, with interesting results.
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Old 07-26-2017, 10:14 PM   #33
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The question is, would anyone in heaven even ask to be reincarnated? If we go by the definition where heaven is a place of ultimate happiness, I think everyone would be too content to desire re-incarnation.
Humans are a Fickle species.
If you plant an electrode in the pleasure center of a rat brain and attach that electrode to a switch, the rat will kill itself by constantly stimulating that part of its own brain.

If you do the same thing to a human? Yeah they press the lever for a while, but eventually they get bored.

With that in mind I can easily see some folks in heaven deciding to take another spin around the Earth.
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Old 07-26-2017, 10:33 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
Humans are a Fickle species.
If you plant an electrode in the pleasure center of a rat brain and attach that electrode to a switch, the rat will kill itself by constantly stimulating that part of its own brain.

If you do the same thing to a human? Yeah they press the lever for a while, but eventually they get bored.

With that in mind I can easily see some folks in heaven deciding to take another spin around the Earth.
Its a sad thing people do that stuff to rats.

Well, since what you see as heaven/happiness appears to be hedonistic pleasure, I'm not surprised you would think people would want to leave it. Pleasure and the lusts of flesh shall not fufill the soul.
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:00 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
Humans are a Fickle species.
If you plant an electrode in the pleasure center of a rat brain and attach that electrode to a switch, the rat will kill itself by constantly stimulating that part of its own brain.

If you do the same thing to a human? Yeah they press the lever for a while, but eventually they get bored.

With that in mind I can easily see some folks in heaven deciding to take another spin around the Earth.
Well, there's only so much dopamine, right? Humans know that they're getting diminishing/no returns. Rats just know muscle memory and what worked before... why wouldn't it work again if we keep trying at it?
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:11 AM   #36
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Its a sad thing people do that stuff to rats.

Well, since what you see as heaven/happiness appears to be hedonistic pleasure, I'm not surprised you would think people would want to leave it. Pleasure and the lusts of flesh shall not fufill the soul.
Goodness, that's an awfully strange conclusion to jump to.
But hey, you do you.
Or...don't do you, as like.

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Well, there's only so much dopamine, right? Humans know that they're getting diminishing/no returns. Rats just know muscle memory and what worked before... why wouldn't it work again if we keep trying at it?
I don't know that I'd classify this as muscle memory, which speaks more to reflex, than conscious decision.
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Old 07-27-2017, 02:08 PM   #37
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I think its possible that there's only one massive "soul", or consciousness, that exists beyond our current understanding of spacetime.

As beings are born into our reality a portion of this oversoul is put into the living creature, so that it can experience what the physical world has to offer. This happens countless times, over and over, until the soul has experienced life from every living thing's point of view.

Because the oversoul is beyond space and time, it can be in all living beings simultaneously, all beings that have ever lived, and all beings that will ever live. This is the meaning behind the phrase "namaste", which can be translated as "the divinity in me recognizes the divinity in you".

See also "The Egg" by Andy Weir (although there is an additional bit of speculation about what the point of all this could be)
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Old 07-27-2017, 03:12 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
Humans are a Fickle species.
If you plant an electrode in the pleasure center of a rat brain and attach that electrode to a switch, the rat will kill itself by constantly stimulating that part of its own brain.

If you do the same thing to a human? Yeah they press the lever for a while, but eventually they get bored.

With that in mind I can easily see some folks in heaven deciding to take another spin around the Earth.
I'm not trying to poopoo on your beliefs and I'm as open minded to interpretation as anyone, but I think you're misunderstanding what Heaven is. It's not some nice neighborhood where people might get bored because nothing happens; it's the ultimate paradise. It's true happiness, to the point of it being beyond earthly understanding. No one is gonna wanna leave.
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Old 07-27-2017, 03:12 PM   #39
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I'm not trying to poopoo on your beliefs and I'm as open minded to interpretation as anyone, but I think you're misunderstanding what Heaven is. It's not some nice neighborhood where people might get bored because nothing happens; it's the ultimate paradise. It's true happiness, to the point of it being beyond earthly understanding. No one is gonna wanna leave.
Bingo, I couldn't have said it better.
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Old 07-27-2017, 03:26 PM   #40
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Here's a quote about reincarnation by Rodney Trotter from the tv show Only Fools and Horses.

Rodney: Iíve got this horrible feeling that if there is such a thing as reincarnation, knowing my luck Iíll come back as me!
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