Gotham

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by snake

I actually liked Penguin. The Riddler was extremely annyoing in his 5 seconds of screen time.

I think the Riddler was just a tease in terms of the pilot - he's one of my favourite Bat villains so I hope we see more of him and his development. I love the psychological aspect of Nigma.

Originally Posted by blindturtle02

There are a tun of rogues they could play around with over time. I loved how they portrayed Twoface in Batman TAS and hope to see him eventually. I guess this is more real world stuff, so probably no Manbat or Clayface. These two always scared me as a kid, but oh well. I've got to say that Joker in a Batmanless Gotham might also be interesting. They also introduced that Red Claw chick in the toon, and I always loved Kate Mulgrew playing that role. Anywho, yeah, so many possibilities. I wonder if they'll eventually add Deathstroke to the mix or if they'll steer clear since he's on CW's Arrow and-- gasp, that might confuse people! Do network execs think they have to water stuff down for adults as well as kids these days? Hope not.

Yeah, I really like Manbat and Clayface as well. Those two and Two Face were all handled superbly by Batman TAS - stellar work. But then that show's treatment of most characters was fantastic.

As I said earlier, the worry is that much of these villains' appeal may lie in their dichotomy with or relationship to Batman. Nigma in terms of smarts, Joker pushing the Bat to his ethical limits etc. The worry is if these characters can stand alone without him. That's why I'm feeling a time jump will happen eventually - that and the pressure from the fans.

Do you think we could see Ra's Al Ghul?

Deathstroke seems to fit this show like a glove, but as you say he's part of another show on another station. Yes, lots of stuff feels watered down these days sadly.

I'd love to see Black Mask as well. We don't want it to be too convoluted. But over six or so seasons all/some of these villains could have adequate screen time and story arcs. It could be really great fan service.

[snake]

What if this is just a lead in to an actual Batman show around the second or third season?

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by snake

What if this is just a lead in to an actual Batman show around the second or third season?

Do you mean a time jump? Or do you mean they might end it after a few seasons and then start work on a whole new show with this show as the prequel material? You mean the latter in all probability and I would be more than happy with that. In fact I would prefer this as I prefer to see the origins of the characters before jumping in with Batman and his rogues gallery in a pilot.

[snake]

Originally Posted by Davetello

Do you mean a time jump? Or do you mean they might end it after a few seasons and then start work on a whole new show with this show as the prequel material? You mean the latter in all probability and I would be more than happy with that. In fact I would prefer this as I prefer to see the origins of the characters before jumping in with Batman and his rogues gallery in a pilot.

A time jump to Bruce training to become batman, and then his first day on the job.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by snake

A time jump to Bruce training to become batman, and then his first day on the job.

Well, either way it amounts to the same thing, whether it's a time jump or a new show. And yes, I would be more than happy with that. If this show had started with Batman training, Batman: Year One or Batman and his already established rogues gallery it would have left like more of the same. I like and respect that they're developing some origin stories, as I like origin stories in fiction.

Like you, I and blindturtle said, a time jump would be fantastic at some point. Not too soon though - we want to see these characters developed. And a problem with a time jump is possible mass recasting of characters.

[snake]

Originally Posted by Davetello

Well, either way it amounts to the same thing, whether it's a time jump or a new show. And yes, I would be more than happy with that. If this show had started with Batman training, Batman: Year One or Batman and his already established rogues gallery it would have left like more of the same. I like and respect that they're developing some origin stories, as I like origin stories in fiction.

Like you, I and blindturtle said, a time jump would be fantastic at some point. Not too soon though - we want to see these characters developed. And a problem with a time jump is possible mass recasting of characters.

Some villains I'd like to see forshadowed
-Solomon Grundy
- Two Face (Or Harvey Dent)
- Bane
- Clayface
- Killer Croc (If they go with the skin disease route, he might be an established villain)
- Man Bat
- Mr. Freeze

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by snake

Some villains I'd like to see forshadowed
-Solomon Grundy
- Two Face (Or Harvey Dent)
- Bane
- Clayface
- Killer Croc (If they go with the skin disease route, he might be an established villain)
- Man Bat
- Mr. Freeze

There was a Grundy easter egg in the pilot. I don't know if that means he won't show up. Bane is certainly doable, although without Batman around it's hard to know who could best him in combat (and even Bats struggled with that as we know). Two Face is a street level character so I see no problem with him appearing, hopefully he will.

I'd love to see the others as well. But then I love Batman main rogue gallery (and Spiderman's, as an aside) and would be happy to see a selection from about 15-20 named villains show up.

[snake]

Originally Posted by Davetello

There was a Grundy easter egg in the pilot. I don't know if that means he won't show up. Bane is certainly doable, although without Batman around it's hard to know who could best him in combat (and even Bats struggled with that as we know). Two Face is a street level character so I see no problem with him appearing, hopefully he will.

I'd love to see the others as well. But then I love Batman main rogue gallery (and Spiderman's, as an aside) and would be happy to see a selection from about 15-20 named villains show up.

I caught the Grundy easter egg. He was the owner of the bar that Harvey was in, right?

[DarkLightDragon]

I honestly would like to see Mr. Freeze and maybe Scarecrow prior to their lives of villainy since they are a couple of my personal favorites. Freeze could still be a normal guy who meets or lives happily with Nora before her diagnosis and Scarecrow could still be a scientist/doctor studying the psychology of fear with signs that he's not necessarily in it to help people.

Though I can easily see how they'd rehash Penguin's 'starting out as some awkward guy that got picked on by peers before going all ruthless on them' for Jonathan Crane.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by snake

I caught the Grundy easter egg. He was the owner of the bar that Harvey was in, right?

Wasn't he part of a street name that Bullock mentioned? "4th and Grundy" or something like that?

Originally Posted by DarkLightDragon

I honestly would like to see Mr. Freeze and maybe Scarecrow prior to their lives of villainy since they are a couple of my personal favorites. Freeze could still be a normal guy who meets or lives happily with Nora before her diagnosis and Scarecrow could still be a scientist/doctor studying the psychology of fear with signs that he's not necessarily in it to help people.

Though I can easily see how they'd rehash Penguin's 'starting out as some awkward guy that got picked on by peers before going all ruthless on them' for Jonathan Crane.

Those sound fantastic. What they will be wary of though is introducing too many villains at once and things reaching saturation point (although McKenzie did say they will be introducing new characters from episode to episode so who knows).

I'd like to see perhaps three or even four seasons fleshing out a few villains at various times, creating some manageable overlap. Then they could have a timejump to a mid-20s Wayne who is about to become the Batman.

[DarkLightDragon]

Well I didn't mean to say they should, since that very well can lead to having too many Batman villains all at once, but would be eager to see them in some fashion should they introduce those particular two.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by DarkLightDragon

Well I didn't mean to say they should, since that very well can lead to having too many Batman villains all at once, but would be eager to see them in some fashion should they introduce those particular two.

Agree. I would certainly love to see those two, particularly Freeze. The relationship with his wife is something which has massive mileage and great potential character development if she's healthy but gradually deteriorates.

Having looked back in the thread there are some people wondering what time period this is set in. In the series preview episode called "The Legend Reborn" (free on places like Amazon) they mention that it isn't set in a particular time period and they're just going for an eclectic mix and mesh. So that's why we see a noir Gotham with some older vehicles but also the use of cell phones etc.

[blindturtle02]

Heck yeah, Dave and Dragon, would love to see Freeze at some point as well as Scarecrow. I was just watching Heart of Ice this afternoon and can't believe I forgot about Freeze since he's also one of my favorite Batman villains. I like the idea of them introducing a few new villains per season. Sounds like the way they'll probably go if they choose to keep bringing it back. And yes, they should bring Ra's into the lineup at some point. Enjoyed him ever since I saw my very first Batman TAS episode, Off Balance. I'm a bit unfamiliar with some villains like Black Mask and Grundy, but since my better half and I are starting to read comics together, I hope to remedy that. Grundy seems like he'd be a powerhouse from what I've seen in my Injustice game and Justice League/JLU DVD collections. Love that guy, but I suppose they wouldn't go the zombie route if they're trying to stay real world. I don't see why they couldn't go with just a touch of the supernatural or Scifi in this, but seems like no live action comic shows have touched this since Smallville. Well, sounds like Agents of Shield is tackling it. So ya never know. Fox might do it to compete with Shield at some point.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by blindturtle02

Heck yeah, Dave and Dragon, would love to see Freeze at some point as well as Scarecrow. I was just watching Heart of Ice this afternoon and can't believe I forgot about Freeze since he's also one of my favorite Batman villains. I like the idea of them introducing a few new villains per season. Sounds like the way they'll probably go if they choose to keep bringing it back. And yes, they should bring Ra's into the lineup at some point. Enjoyed him ever since I saw my very first Batman TAS episode, Off Balance. I'm a bit unfamiliar with some villains like Black Mask and Grundy, but since my better half and I are starting to read comics together, I hope to remedy that. Grundy seems like he'd be a powerhouse from what I've seen in my Injustice game and Justice League/JLU DVD collections. Love that guy, but I suppose they wouldn't go the zombie route if they're trying to stay real world. I don't see why they couldn't go with just a touch of the supernatural or Scifi in this, but seems like no live action comic shows have touched this since Smallville. Well, sounds like Agents of Shield is tackling it. So ya never know. Fox might do it to compete with Shield at some point.

Yeah, it would be brilliant to see them introduced sparingly but have them recurring as well, so they can pop up at any point if it ever time jumps to Batman. As I say above the potential to introduce Fries and his healthy wife is phenomenal. Can you imagine how much we could see her deteriorate physically and mentally and he mentally before the accident? They really could build it up as one of the arcs over an entire season.

I'd like to see a little sci-fi or supernatural as well - why not? That sort of thing can keep a show fresh if it's done intelligently and coherently.

One of my favourite Grundy moments happens in the JL cartoon, between he and Hawkgirl. We really see his humanity.

I'm going to bed now mate. Speak soon.

[BubblyShell22]

I'm sure we'll see more villains, and I agree that a time jump would be beneficial down the line or else it'll get too boring and repetitive. But for now, I'm fine with seeing how things play out and what they have in store for us.

[TurtleTitan97]

Finally watched it. I thought it was pretty decent overall. I'm interested in what happens next.

[snake]

Anyone catch the second episode? I liked it better then the first. Penguin is still amazing.

[BubblyShell22]

Yep, loved it and loved the cliffhanger they left us on. I hope Selina gives Jim the necklace and tells more about who murdered the Wayne's. Penguin is awesome and really shone in this episode as well, and I still love Fish Moony. Yep, definitely not a woman to cross. Anyone catch the Arkham Asylum references they put in there? I thought that was pretty cool, too.

[snake]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

Yep, loved it and loved the cliffhanger they left us on. I hope Selina gives Jim the necklace and tells more about who murdered the Wayne's. Penguin is awesome and really shone in this episode as well, and I still love Fish Moony. Yep, definitely not a woman to cross. Anyone catch the Arkham Asylum references they put in there? I thought that was pretty cool, too.

I love the riddler pandering in the show.


"Oh Edward NIGMA, stop with your RIDDLES! Always asking QUESTIONS and RIDDLES. RIDDLES. RIDDLES."

Bullock looks to the camera,

'Ya get it? He's the riddler!"

[CyberCubed]

This show feels like someones truly awful fanfiction brought to life on TV. I'm pretty sure if you look up Batman fanfiction from the early 2000's you'll find a concept just like this.