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Old 03-23-2019, 03:29 PM   #21
Redeemer
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Its honestly depressing. I feel like this movie would have been leaps and bounds better than what we got with viacom.....
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Old 03-23-2019, 04:25 PM   #22
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Yeah! That was the one. And the script writer they chose was Frank Fusco. And it was decided it was "too dark."

Everything I've heard about it suggests it was the best TMNT thing we'll never get.

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In retrospect, I feel like a lot of the 25th anniversary effort was put together to help make the TMNT "saleable." I wouldn't be surprised if there were Nickelodeon suits watching the general interest that the events they held garnered. Especially at the Turtles Forever screening that was at Comic-Con that year.
Like we all said, those of us that attended it... "We had no idea it was going to turn out to be a wake."
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Old 03-24-2019, 03:06 AM   #23
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The teaser for the movie was great. Looked like it could have been a very Mirage movie, then it turned out to be the 4th in the series, which I don't think was a great choice. I would have much preferred starting a new series than giving it the Superman Returns formula where we're revisiting a world that's changed a lot since we last saw it.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:10 PM   #24
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I also don't think they had much of a marketing budget because very few people even knew there was a movie out.
Quite the opposite where I was. Between previews of the game online, a competition to win the game via Channel 4 (WHICH WAS HACKED!!!) as well as press news either about Patrick Stewart's involvement or Mako's death I never not knew the film was coming out. Kind of sad that pretty much every film Kevin Munroe has directed has been a flop.

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And ofc, a lot of people were like "WAIT, NO SHREDDER ,BEBOP, ROCKSTEADY AND KRANG?! **** IT"
I went to see the film with some buddies of mine and that wasn't out lasting concerns. It was more to do with the lack of an exciting plot or action although Shredder's absence was noticeable to us.

I just found it a disappointing movie to be honest. The Raph/Leo fight scene was just fan service and something nobody outside of the ultrahardcore wanted to see. We get they don't get along, we don't need them to spend ten minutes on them having a pointless fight just because. There was also a tendency for some reason back in 2007 to shoehorn Kevin Smith into every returning movie franchise because "he's a fan". Found it pretentious even back then.

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Imagi had their idea for a sequel that I think I read Peter was OK with (not entirely sure there)... then Imagi fell apart for unrelated reasons.
Yep, Laird said he wanted to see a live action sequel with Sarah Michelle Gellar and Freddie Prinze Jr reprising their roles while the TMNT being CGI. Obviously the idea of doing things this way ultimately led to the PD movies.
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Old 03-28-2019, 08:11 PM   #25
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Speak for yourself, the Leo/Raph fight is the only part of the movie that I still remember, and the only part of the entire thing that feels like anything important is happening when I do watch it. I liked it a lot in the theater - I generally do have a good time at the theater regardless of what the movie is, it's on the ride home when some things start to fall apart - but a while after that I realized that the movie itself wasn't very memorable. So I re-watched it a few times and while it's definitely not bad, it's completely "Meh". A lot of interesting ideas, none of which were explored to their full potential. And saving the conflict everyone actually DID want to see for the sequel (which we never got) was a Very Bad Idea. Regardless of whether seeing Shredder again was a rehash or not, it's what most people would have preferred to spend money on.

I knew the thing wasn't gonna take off when I went to see it opening night and the theater was 2/3s full. That's always a bad sign.
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Old 03-28-2019, 08:16 PM   #26
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That is the most depressing thing I've read all day.

I'd give IDW TMNT over for one single modern decent "Batman Begins" TMNT movie in a heartbeat. And throw in my Mirage/Image collections, too.
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Old 03-28-2019, 08:19 PM   #27
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Wish in one hand, and you know what to do with the other...

It'll never happen. Never, ever ever. Real shame.
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Old 03-28-2019, 09:17 PM   #28
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I think a sequel featuring Shredder would've been cool as f*ck, but I kind of applaud them for doing an original villain for the movie.

Like, the Stone Generals and Max Winters were kind of sh*tty, but at least it wasn't the same thing we've seen before.
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Old 03-28-2019, 09:41 PM   #29
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What's the trade-off, though? What weighs more? An original idea, executed poorly, or a re-hashed idea done well?

I personally vote for Option B, but then, I'm a fairly conservative person and I don't believe in taking risks.
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Old 03-28-2019, 09:44 PM   #30
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Original idea, IMO. Maybe I'm too jaded by the Star Wars sequels and the general direction of the TMNT franchise, but I'm sick and tired of seeing the same sh*t.

Hell, I like TNM's villains just because they're new ideas, and if executed a little better- could probably work.
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Old 03-28-2019, 10:05 PM   #31
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Fair enough, but SO many "new ideas" end up that way - "If only they were better executed" - that it almost seems like wasted energy.

"Potential" is a word people use for things that are ultimately not very satisfying, after all. Nobody ever says, "That thing totally lived up to or exceeded its potential." Hardly ever, about anything. They say, "That thing had so much potential, it's a shame it didn't do better."

Who knows WHY it's so hard to get a New Idea to actually work. Maybe it's because they haven't had a chance to polish it into a diamond, the way older ideas get to be? I honestly don't know. I do think some things persist and become "iconic" for a reason, though.

With regard to this film, I think using a brand new (and ultimately underwhelming) villain for the first TMNT film in 15 or so years was a HUGE mistake. They absolutely should have used Shredder. It's impossible to say how many people skipped seeing it and said "I'll wait for the sequel" once they heard that Shredder wasn't in it, BUT, it had to have been A Lot Of People.

Like, people often do crap on "The Force Awakens", but it's absolutely the movie they HAD to make in their situation. They needed to do a "safe picture" since the Prequels were so divisive. Business-wise, it was the right move and I don't fault them for that at all, I fault them for completely botching the follow-up.

If Disney had come out of the gate with an entirely New And Original Idea for their very first Star Wars flick, they would have gotten ten times more sh*t from people, for "not understanding Star Wars" and "Not giving people what they wanted."

I get wanting to see fresh stuff, but there's a time for that and a time to play it safe. The wisdom is knowing when to do which. Unfortunately, that usually only becomes clear with hindsight, and by then you've either made or lost the money and you can't go back and do it over.
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Old 03-28-2019, 10:11 PM   #32
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Here's where I disagree. Star Wars was going to make money regardless. I don't care what anyone says. There is no way it was not going to succeed and TFA was absolutely not their only choice.

The problem with the ST, and TFA in particular, is that it doesn't even rehash the right things. Do we get the rehash elements we SHOULD be getting? Like the OT Trio, Luke training jedi, the original character's having offspring and having a happy outcome, the new republic, or an interesting conflict? No. We get sh*tty sets, wide-eyed earth tone aliens that all look the same, a bare bones story, awful new characters, cheap looking effects, zero worldbuilding, basically no interaction with ANY of the OT characters, Rebels vs the f*cking Empire again, and the end result is a galaxy that in size more resembles my penis.

F*ck Disney. I should not be this fired up this late at night, but whenever that movie is brought up- that's the point I'm driven to.
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Old 03-28-2019, 10:30 PM   #33
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I agree with some of that for sure. And I agree they would have made money regardless. But I kinda think that TLJ only did as well as it did because they had everyone in the palm of their hand after TFA was considered "Acceptable" by the majority. Like I don't think anyone thought TFA was mind-blowing, but it was at least "Acceptable and Recognizable as a Star Wars Product", which TLJ kind of isn't, and that's why it's so divisive.

I do agree that they've chosen to focus on the wrong things, however. And I'm just about as "F*ck Star Wars, I Give Up" as you are, for sure. But I don't think TFA was the problem, I think they were right to make that movie. I think the mistake was doing a complete 180 and making a sequel that mostly pretends that movie didn't even happen, despite everything depending on it for the story to function. TLJ could have been FULL of Fresh New Ideas, and tried to be... but they f*cked it up by giving it to someone who didn't even "get" Star Wars, so all his "new ideas" were terrible.

If it makes you feel any better though man, these are conversations worth having. Thanks for raising the bar.
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Old 03-29-2019, 05:07 PM   #34
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Speak for yourself, the Leo/Raph fight is the only part of the movie that I still remember,
I had to remind myself I actually saw the movie at the cinema. I just felt the fight scene didn't have a purpose. The film had some interesting things about it. I liked that the villain wasn't actually a villain but there wasn't much I enjoyed. I remember a fair bit about the movie even though I've only seen it once. Like the PD movies I don't have a big desire to see the 2007 movie again.

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Like, people often do crap on "The Force Awakens", but it's absolutely the movie they HAD to make in their situation. They needed to do a "safe picture" since the Prequels were so divisive. Business-wise, it was the right move and I don't fault them for that at all, I fault them for completely botching the follow-up.
No way in hell did Disney have to make The Force Awakens. The film single handedly ruined the entire franchise while undoing all the good work Return of the Jedi ended with. It's only now after the disappointment of TLJ that people are starting to realise that. It was a travesty of a movie. If The Last Jedi is guilty of anything is being more of the same sh*t.

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F*ck Disney. I should not be this fired up this late at night, but whenever that movie is brought up- that's the point I'm driven to.
I get you. Say what you will about the prequels but at least there was a vision and somewhat of a consistency to the universe Lucas created.
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Old 03-29-2019, 09:52 PM   #35
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- Eh. Leo/Raph fight was entertaining, but the wrong guy went over. Rest of the movie wasn't offensive but easily could've been sponsored by Ambien. I stand by that opinion.

- Eh. Disney made any other movie than TFA, people would've nerd-raged at them even worse than they did at Lucas about the prequels. It was a decent (if completely safe and corporately-mandated) launchpad that could have led to some interesting stories, but they pooched the follow-up by making TFA completely not matter. I stand by that opinion.

- Star Wars should have stopped having movies entirely after Episode III, and become a completely TV and comic books-only franchise. I stand by that opinion.
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Old 04-03-2019, 06:35 PM   #36
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- Star Wars should have stopped having movies entirely after Episode III, and become a completely TV and comic books-only franchise. I stand by that opinion.
I don't care about Star Wars movies besides the original trilogy. Didn't like Phantom Menace and I certainly did not like Attack of the Clones.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:17 PM   #37
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Interesting. I thought the Prequels got successively better overall as they went along, although Hayden Christensen certaily was a mistake. But Obi-Wan kept getting more and better lines, so that was what I was mostly paying attention to.

If you focus JUST on what he's doing and ignore almost everything else, the Prequels aren't too bad. But holy sh*t, how Lucas managed to get such terrible performances out of such award-winning actors I will never know. It's very obvious that he was far more concerned with playing with his shiny new computer toys than anything having to do with his actors. Total case of misplaced priorities.

In case I haven't been completely clear about it, I loathe CGI with the fury of a thousand suns. I'd settle for stop motion/"Claymation" and goddamn puppets before I'd ever say, "Yeah, use CGI, that's gonna look great." No exceptions.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:42 PM   #38
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Interesting. I thought the Prequels got successively better overall as they went along, although Hayden Christensen certaily was a mistake. But Obi-Wan kept getting more and better lines, so that was what I was mostly paying attention to.

If you focus JUST on what he's doing and ignore almost everything else, the Prequels aren't too bad. But holy sh*t, how Lucas managed to get such terrible performances out of such award-winning actors I will never know. It's very obvious that he was far more concerned with playing with his shiny new computer toys than anything having to do with his actors. Total case of misplaced priorities.

In case I haven't been completely clear about it, I loathe CGI with the fury of a thousand suns. I'd settle for stop motion/"Claymation" and goddamn puppets before I'd ever say, "Yeah, use CGI, that's gonna look great." No exceptions.
I watched those movies not too long after they came out, so I no longer remember most of the details.

Anyway, SW is a huge universe and the extended universe seems cool judging by what I've played of KOTOR so far.
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:11 AM   #39
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I can't believe you haven't finished it yet. When I first played that game it was ALL that I did besides go to work for almost two weeks, and upon beating it I immediately restarted it so I could play Dark Side as well as find all the stuff I knew I'd missed. If that game had a moist orifice I for sure would have gotten it pregnant by now.

Your mother and I are very disappointed in you for this. And I'm not even your real Dad, nor do she and I talk. But nonetheless, we both expect better from you in the future.

I won't hold it against you if you skip the second game, though. Some big improvements, but it's also kind of a letdown. First one is all you really need.
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Old 04-04-2019, 05:47 AM   #40
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Yeah, Karai in it seemed to exist to #1, get knocked down by April F***ing O'Neil, and #2, tell us that Shredder was coming back.



True, but these things weren't connected. Imagi had their idea for a sequel that I think I read Peter was OK with (not entirely sure there)... then Imagi fell apart for unrelated reasons. Then years later Frank Fusco (yes, Fusco, not Fosco) wrote a draft of a live action reboot that Kevin Eastman told me was, "Like Batman Begins," "awesome," and "the best thing Turtles" that he's ever read or seen conceptualized. And yeah, that's about the time the sale happened... and everything got twisted.
There were plans for two sequels, with City at War and Triceratons.

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