Does anyone else feel disillusioned with their fandom?

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

You do know what COPPA is right?

Yep, long story short, parents are not doing their part to pay attention to what their children are doing and take responsibility for it. Now, the government wants the rest of us to be the babysitters to these kids. Personally, I think they should revise the laws that kids under 13 don't have access to the internet period without adult supervision at all times.

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

2012 April is a sexual icon... ?

Gross, dude

Not sure about sexual icon, but I did find it weird that the show liked to focus on her butt alot. Especially that one scene where she is tied up in precarious position that is often seen in bondage porn. The design itself is weird. They have a yellow sticker right on ass. Makes me wonder what was going through the designers heads when they decided on that detail.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by TommyT

You had me for most of the argument, and you're being charitable to Nick, but to close your eyes to the intentional race swapping, under the guise that she looked cute? First of all, she's not remotely cute, from any objective position, and secondly, She's a pastiche of SJW women in general, a black Kelly Sue Deconnick, if we're being honest.
Baby Yoda, she is not.

So no, while they're not waving the progressive flag and marching in the streets, it was absolutely a strategic move, aimed at the demo they think will buy these toys. when your business approaches a billion dollars, decisions are not whimsical in the slightest.

Despite all the market testing, that demo didn't spend money. Shocker.

This goes back to my point, months ago now, that April, for better or worse, is a sexual icon, and removing that from the TMNT dynamic as they did in Rise, breaks the magic.

Funny thing though, I do think this new change in April is definitely to cater to a fad at the moment, but, back in the 90's, I was watching En Vogue's "Hold On", and thinking the main singer with the short hair looked strikingly like April from FW, and I would totally be open to her playing April.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Funny thing though, I do think this new change in April is definitely to cater to a fad at the moment, but, back in the 90's, I was watching En Vogue's "Hold On", and thinking the main singer with the short hair looked strikingly like April from FW, and I would totally be open to her playing April.

Some people want Idris Elba to play Bond and MB Jordan as Superman.
If Jordan plays Superman, I'm good so long as it's Calvin Ellis. I would say there are tons of other actors i would choose ahead of Jordan, like, most of them, but he's not a bad actor, just an obnoxious one with no charisma.

Now that I've seen Idris as a furry cat, he'll be hard to take as Bond, but not impossible.

Bond was, in my opinion, done well by a few different actors, we've had all sorts of quality Bond. Idris would be a fresh take, and he's bond like already.
April has never been done well in live action. I'd like to see her played well as written first, before the race swapping begins.

I hate the look of Rise april. She's a low key pink hair.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TommyT

Now that I've seen Idris as a furry cat, he'll be hard to take as Bond, but not impossible.

Is that an admission you went out and saw the movie?

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Not sure about sexual icon, but I did find it weird that the show liked to focus on her butt alot.

I think it's safe to say that the character was sexualized a bit on the show, which is a much different observation than anyone who tells you that she was a "sexual icon".

But I also perceived it more as a teenage-style-joke and wink to the audience much the same way the kids look at "El" in Stranger Things. And so it's not that we laugh and enjoy it because we the audience find her (El or 2012 April) desirable, but instead we laugh and enjoy it because we understand that the characters of the show do.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Is that an admission you went out and saw the movie?

It's on youtube, or at least it was. Cringe factor 2000.

[vicsavage]

Why is having a black character a "SJW" decision

[Leo656]

A black character in and of itself is not.

Flipping a character who is/was white into a non-white character is very much a "SJW" decision. It implicitly sends the message that 1. "Too many honkies" is Not OK, and 2. Someone is literally holding a checklist and keeping score to make sure that the numbers are represented in an "acceptable" manner.

Changing a white character into a non-white character is simply Racist. Changing a non-white character into a white character is ALSO simply racist. It's not acceptable from either side, BUT some people encourage it because they want everything to simply be a numbers game, and in their eyes there is an imaginary number of how many White and Non-White characters is "acceptable" for a story to have.

Flipping Male characters to Female, same thing, just as ridiculous, hurts way more than it helps. Pandering nonsense, solves nothing.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

A black character in and of itself is not.

Flipping a character who is/was white into a non-white character is very much a "SJW" decision. It implicitly sends the message that 1. "Too many honkies" is Not OK, and 2. Someone is literally holding a checklist and keeping score to make sure that the numbers are represented in an "acceptable" manner.

Changing a white character into a non-white character is simply Racist. Changing a non-white character into a white character is ALSO simply racist. It's not acceptable from either side, BUT some people encourage it because they want everything to simply be a numbers game, and in their eyes there is an imaginary number of how many White and Non-White characters is "acceptable" for a story to have.

Flipping Male characters to Female, same thing, just as ridiculous, hurts way more than it helps. Pandering nonsense, solves nothing.

Yeah man, but Katie Sackhoff in Battlestar Galactica was great.

There's always at least one outlying exception.

[vicsavage]

So character race and sex is immutable? Nick Fury in the Avengers movies is a racist decision? Characters can be reinterpreted to have different circumstances, origins and personalities but if they're white they've got to stay white?

Was making Magneto a Jewish Holocaust survivor SJWism run amok?

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by vicsavage

So character race and sex is immutable? Nick Fury in the Avengers movies is a racist decision? Characters can be reinterpreted to have different circumstances, origins and personalities but if they're white they've got to stay white?

Was making Magneto a Jewish Holocaust survivor SJWism run amok?

Magneto being a Holocaust survivor was integral part of his character and motivations.
It was not done just to get headpats from Twitter.

[vicsavage]

It was still added decades later by people who didn't create Magneto.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by vicsavage

So character race and sex is immutable? Nick Fury in the Avengers movies is a racist decision? Characters can be reinterpreted to have different circumstances, origins and personalities but if they're white they've got to stay white?

Yes it was a racist decision (which was first done for the comic book series The Ultimates, way before the movies). Someone looked at the Avengers roster, said "Too many white people! This is a problem!", and then set about to "fix" the problem by making a white character black. Someone with half a brain would have simply taken an already-established black character and "promoted" them to a more prominent position on the team, if it were simply about "we need a black guy." BUT, that takes talent and creativity, and ALSO carries none of the shock value that these stunts rely on for effectiveness. They WANT people to be annoyed and chattering about it; you promote an existing black character, nobody cares. "Flip" an established character into a different race, then everyone has something to say. It's marketing bullsh*t. They do it for attention. There's nothing truly altruistic about it.

"Too Many White People" also implies that there is an "Acceptable Number" of Caucasian characters that any story is allowed to have, and if you're over the line then it's a serious problem in need of fixing, and that's frankly horse sh*t. If I decide to make a movie about Ireland or Scotland in the 1700s, for example, and I'm trying to be as authentic as possible, odds are extremely slim that I'm going to include any non-white characters; maybe one if they were a figure of notable historical importance and their inclusion is critical to the story I'm telling, but any writer or creative type needs to be free to make those decisions for themselves, NOT go down the list with a checklist and "flip" a few people just to make the numbers even. That's nonsense.

For the record, you assume a lot by saying "Characters can be reinterpreted to have different circumstances, origins and personalities". I don't really agree with that much at all. I know it's a thing people do often nowadays - lazy people, mostly - but it annoys me. "I want to write Batman, BUT, I don't have any good ideas for the character as he exists and has been established. So what I'M gonna do, is change as much as I need to in order to force the character to fit a story I CAN tell... even if the character doesn't resemble themselves any more. Whatever's best for MY story." No, I am definitely not a fan of that. It takes no talent whatsoever to "reimagine" Sherlock Holmes as The Shadow and just call it a "new interpretation". There HAS to be some consistency or else the "creator" is just masturbating. If Batman can fly and his parents weren't killed and he's dirt poor, he's NOT Batman anymore, he's now a completely different character wearing a familiar costume, and that's ALL he is.

Things of little consequence can sometimes be changed, if there's a good enough reason for it. Hair color, eye color, favorite food, these things don't ultimately mean much most of the time (although they can). Things such as race, origin, sex, etc. are fundamental and should be left alone. It is completely impossible for anyone to change my mind about this.

Flipping a character's race, sex, or sexual orientation is something lazy writers do for shock value. Period. It's not a practice that should be respected nor celebrated. Put simply, it's "cheap heat".

[d_osborn]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Flipping a character's race, sex, or sexual orientation is something lazy writers do for shock value. Period. It's not a practice that should be respected nor celebrated. Put simply, it's "cheap heat".

I 100% disagree. Some genius TV exec flipped race/background and made The Beverly Hillbillies immensely more watchable as The Fresh Prince of Bel Air. As much as I disagree with The Rural Purge, it had strong benefits.

[Slade]

wait..what..

Feel like I'm behind now.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by vicsavage

Why is having a black character a "SJW" decision

Originally Posted by Leo656

A black character in and of itself is not.

Flipping a character who is/was white into a non-white character is very much a "SJW" decision. It implicitly sends the message that 1. "Too many honkies" is Not OK, and 2. Someone is literally holding a checklist and keeping score to make sure that the numbers are represented in an "acceptable" manner.

Changing a white character into a non-white character is simply Racist. Changing a non-white character into a white character is ALSO simply racist. It's not acceptable from either side, BUT some people encourage it because they want everything to simply be a numbers game, and in their eyes there is an imaginary number of how many White and Non-White characters is "acceptable" for a story to have.

Flipping Male characters to Female, same thing, just as ridiculous, hurts way more than it helps. Pandering nonsense, solves nothing.

What Leo656 said. And the truth is, when these new producers come along and try to change anything, they do it in the most obnoxious way. Hence why there was huge backlash against the first Michael Bay film when it was revealed they were going to have a white guy play Shredder.

With that aside, I do think if the producers want to bring more people of color into the TMNT world, then why not bring someone like Angel? She's always been a character I wished they would have done more with, because her world would fit perfectly with the Turtle's. Dare I say, even more so than April.

[CyberCubed]

I'm more curious what prompted the decision to change April into a red-head in the 2000's in most media as opposed to the 80's/90's when she always had black or brown hair.

In Mirage, the original cartoon, the movies, the Archie comic, etc, April always had either dark black or brown hair. She was pretty much a brunette.

Then 4kids gave her red hair for the first time in the 2k3 series, and it somehow stuck and became a staple of her for the next 20 years. 2007 CG movie April had red hair, then Nick 2012 April was a red-head and IDW April was also a red head. Even Megan Fox had her hair with a red tint in the Bay movies.

It's only Rise that made her black, but she'll probably be a white red head again in the next cartoon.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I'm more curious what prompted the decision to change April into a red-head in the 2000's in most media as opposed to the 80's/90's when she always had black or brown hair.

In Mirage, the original cartoon, the movies, the Archie comic, etc, April always had either dark black or brown hair. She was pretty much a brunette.

Then 4kids gave her red hair for the first time in the 2k3 series, and it somehow stuck and became a staple of her for the next 20 years. 2007 CG movie April had red hair, then Nick 2012 April was a red-head and IDW April was also a red head. Even Megan Fox had her hair with a red tint in the Bay movies.

It's only Rise that made her black, but she'll probably be a white red head again in the next cartoon.

I thought the comics were in black and white? And she was red head in the Fred Wolf show as well as the 1990 movie.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

I thought the comics were in black and white?

Only the first volume. And there are many colorized versions of the early stuff.

Oh yeah, and there's this thing called covers.

[d_osborn]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I'm more curious what prompted the decision to change April into a red-head in the 2000's in most media as opposed to the 80's/90's when she always had black or brown hair.

Is this a rhetorical question?

The comics honestly aren't my forté-- didn't Eastman confirm April in the early issues was loosely based on an African American girlfriend he had at the time?