Could the new show be the Nick turtles in space?

[Jephael]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

I think the best options are they disappeared and by that argument merged with their counterparts. Because they were about to becomes the what the turtles were in the finale. However there were subtle changes such as Mozar asking if they had met him before and the Turtles responding that no they had not.

And due to the Turtles from the previous reality showing up and saving the day, the other Turtles go into space and pretty much disappear to close the time paradox that was caused by their counter parts.

I'm no time travel expert, but I've never heard of the idea of people merging with themselves from an alternate timeline.

Also, I was just re-watching the season 3 finale last week and to my surprise I couldn't help but notice that part where Mozar asks the TMNT if they recognize him was like shot in a way that it could easily have been inserted into that same scene in "Annihilation: Earth".

My point being though is, it's pretty crystal clear that Past Fugitoid took Past April, Past Casey and the Past TMNT back in time to become the group as we saw them in the beginning of the season. Also as cool as the idea of there being alternate versions of the Ninja Turtles from another reality, it convolutes things too much.

No two versions of the same person from different points in time are meant to co-exist. Eventually the younger iteration has to become the older and go through exactly what he or she did before... otherwise all hell will break loose, especially if the older one were to accidentally cause their younger counterpart to meet a premature demise.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Jephael

I'm no time travel expert, but I've never heard of the idea of people merging with themselves from an alternate timeline.

Also, I was just re-watching the season 3 finale last week and to my surprise I couldn't help but notice that part where Mozar asks the TMNT if they recognize him was like shot in a way that it could easily have been inserted into that same scene in "Annihilation: Earth".

My point being though is, it's pretty crystal clear that Past Fugitoid took Past April, Past Casey and the Past TMNT back in time to become the group as we saw them in the beginning of the season. Also as cool as the idea of there being alternate versions of the Ninja Turtles from another reality, it convolutes things too much.

No two versions of the same person from different points in time are meant to co-exist. Eventually the younger iteration has to become the older and go through exactly what he or she did before... otherwise all hell will break loose, especially if the older one were to accidentally cause their younger counterpart to meet a premature demise.

then perhaps they just disappeared to close the time paradox, particularly since the hunt for the black hole generator is a mute point once it destroyed the triceraton mother ship.

[ToTheNines]

It actually does make sense, they just skirted around the darker implications. Jeph, I'm a big BTTF fan too, but a lot of their time travel "rules" are totally silly, even if plenty of other works use them as a basis (TMNT included some times!)

Basically, (let's call seasons 1-3 of the Nick show universe A) Universe A was totally destroyed, it and all of its inhabitants on Earth are dead, save for our 6 heroes. When they go back in time, they don't go back in their own time in the linear sense (that's why Bishop/Mozar didn't know them, etc.), but when they went back 6 months, they created a branch-off timeline. Universe B.

So when they saved Universe B. Instead of everyone coexisting, the real Turtles of B just used Fugitoid's one time ticket to go back and do it again, creating Universe C. Ad infinitum, in theory.

Now the major difference is the the turtles from Universe B and onward aren't dealing with the murder of Master Splinter, or the destruction of their planet while on their space adventure. But it is interesting and unique that we got to see the beginning of the paradox. Normally we find the characters in the middle of the paradox when dealing with time travel stories.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Or why not following "Half Shell Heroes"?

[ABrown]

Man that's a good movie. And just like with the original Star Wars trilogy, the middle movie is my favorite.

[Jephael]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Basically, (let's call seasons 1-3 of the Nick show universe A) Universe A was totally destroyed, it and all of its inhabitants on Earth are dead, save for our 6 heroes. When they go back in time, they don't go back in their own time in the linear sense (that's why Bishop/Mozar didn't know them, etc.), but when they went back 6 months, they created a branch-off timeline. Universe B.

So when they saved Universe B. Instead of everyone coexisting, the real Turtles of B just used Fugitoid's one time ticket to go back and do it again, creating Universe C. Ad infinitum, in theory.

Now the major difference is the the turtles from Universe B and onward aren't dealing with the murder of Master Splinter, or the destruction of their planet while on their space adventure. But it is interesting and unique that we got to see the beginning of the paradox. Normally we find the characters in the middle of the paradox when dealing with time travel stories.

Okay now here's the tricky part to all of this. As I stated before there's a safe bet the TMNT, April and Casey of the new timeline essentially had their minds wiped by the time travel process, thus making them have no memory of the new timeline, same as how the Marty we briefly see at the end of Back to the Future is essentially Marty of the new timeline, though once that Marty departs for 1955, his memories of that timeline are replaced by the memories of the original timeline, thus making him the Marty we've been following throughout the movie.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Jephael

Okay now here's the tricky part to all of this. As I stated before there's a safe bet the TMNT, April and Casey of the new timeline essentially had their minds wiped by the time travel process, thus making them have no memory of the new timeline, same as how the Marty we briefly see at the end of Back to the Future is essentially Marty of the new timeline, though once that Marty departs for 1955, his memories of that timeline are replaced by the memories of the original timeline, thus making him the Marty we've been following throughout the movie.

I think you and I see eye to eye on all this up until the transferred memory stuff. I know there's precedent for it, in other fiction, but it's pretty dumb if you ask me. I mean, what sense does that make? Retaining memories of stuff that never happened to you? How?

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Fugitoid will be taking turtles created in new timelines into space for all eternity...

[Jephael]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I think you and I see eye to eye on all this up until the transferred memory stuff. I know there's precedent for it, in other fiction, but it's pretty dumb if you ask me. I mean, what sense does that make? Retaining memories of stuff that never happened to you? How?

Well, actually I agree with you. In my theory, essentially in any case no matter how many times you alter the past and change the timeline, you're still in the same universe, but with the new history basically taping over the previous version. In any matter, why wouldn't their memories be altered as well?

If you ever watch Quantum Leap, the main character of that show is constantly altering the past (for the better, mind you) and as a result his memory is totally scrambled. Even the current television version of The Flash and other heroes on CW had their memories altered as a result of constantly changing the past. I believe there once was an episode of The Twilight Zone or some such show where a woman went through a breakdown because she somehow gained knowledge of multiple alternate timelines.

For some reason Back to the Future ignores this principle and has its characters not go through such things. In fact the IDW comic book series just finished up a really interesting story about Marty having an existentialist crisis over the fact that he's forever stuck in a reality he doesn't feel like he truly belongs in, simply because he still retains full memory of the original history.

[ToTheNines]

Gotcha. I just personally subscribe to the theory that going back on time doesn't alter your timeline, but rather creates a new branch-off timeline in the Multiverse.

Either that, or the old paradox/loop. Like in Tale of the Yokai. The turtles didn't go back and change anything, they were always there to rescue Yoshi. Everything they did was already set in stone.

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Gotcha. I just personally subscribe to the theory that going back on time doesn't alter your timeline, but rather creates a new branch-off timeline in the Multiverse.

Either that, or the old paradox/loop. Like in Tale of the Yokai. The turtles didn't go back and change anything, they were always there to rescue Yoshi. Everything they did was already set in stone.

Didn't "Turtles in Time" show that in the TMNT 2012 universe, time travel can change the history of their own timeline without predestination and all that? In that show, we learn that the Turtles were supposed to beat Savanti in their present day, but when Renet did the job for them, that created a new timeline, where Savanti was beaten under different circumstances,

[Jephael]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I just personally subscribe to the theory that going back on time doesn't alter your timeline, but rather creates a new branch-off timeline in the Multiverse.

Either that, or the old paradox/loop. Like in Tale of the Yokai. The turtles didn't go back and change anything, they were always there to rescue Yoshi. Everything they did was already set in stone.

I was just watching Alice: Through the Looking Glass and it delved heavily into time travel and how history cannot be altered no matter how hard you try. Similarly you also have the time-turner scenario in the third Harry Potter story where essentially Harry and Hermione went back in time to save Buckbeak, however it was set up to make you feel like they had always been there.

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by Jephael

I was just watching Alice: Through the Looking Glass and it delved heavily into time travel and how history cannot be altered no matter how hard you try. Similarly you also have the time-turner scenario in the third Harry Potter story where essentially Harry and Hermione went back in time to save Buckbeak, however it was set up to make you feel like they had always been there.

Okay. Yeah, time travel stories usually have different rules (can't change history, can completely change history, can only make "minor" changes), depending on the what story is being told and the rules for temporal mechanics that are invented.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Jephael

I was just watching Alice: Through the Looking Glass and it delved heavily into time travel and how history cannot be altered no matter how hard you try. Similarly you also have the time-turner scenario in the third Harry Potter story where essentially Harry and Hermione went back in time to save Buckbeak, however, it was set up to make you feel like they had always been there.

Let's not forget Gargoyles when Damona goes back in time to warn her younger self about how in a matter of years her clan would be destroyed and her mate as well as the handful of survivors are cursed to sleep forever in stone. Goliath defeats Demona and knocks her unconscious.

When younger Demona asks how she can go on knowing this future will happen. Goliath just tells her not to focus on that future but live in the present and keep her vows of love. Later in present day when Demona wakes up she says that she never forgot what Goliath had told her and it changed nothing.


With the whole events with the Turtle's in space everything up until the death of Splinter would be intact. So if the turtles do still have memory of Splinter being killed off it would likely just a residual memory of that former timeline.