TMNT Reboot: Baxter Stockman vs The Rat King

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I truly believe other villains can work in the main role, it just has to be done it a properly done script. Rat King vs. Baxter with the turtles caught in the middle (maybe with a leatherhead scene thrown in) could work. A post-credits scene with shredder and the foot, to tease the sequel. I think any villain could work to draw people in, so long as the marketing makes the movie look fun and exciting.

[Galactus]

From a creative standpoint you could definitely make a good non-Shredder TMNT movie but it's no guarantee the public will buy it.

Aren't most action movies marketed as "fun and exciting"? While the various trailers for both Platinum Dunes movies threw up a lot of red flags for us ardent fans but most people were oblivious to all that and all those trailers were very well made and effectively conveyed both the better parts of the movie and how they wanted the audience to view them going in. Didn't really work out as well, did it? Especially with the second.

Even if you could get the general public on board with a non-Shredder focused movie there's one problem before you even get there. How you going to persuade a movie studio to go for it? Is a bottom line Paramount exec going to green light most of these concepts?

Even as concepts many TMNT villains sound either weak or just plain weird. I get the big selling point of a Rat King movie would be to have Rat King control Splinter and force him to fight the turtles - that would be good and connects to the titular characters which is what a lot of fan pitches which have the turtles caught up in the middle of events that have little to do with them overlook...I still think a movie about a nut trying to conquer the world with a bunch of rats is going to be hard sell to a board room.

Then there is also practical concerns. For example I think the Space arc from #3 - 5 of the Mirage book would make a good movie. As far as I'm concerned it's already worked as a movie in Thor: Ragnarok which had essentially the same story but after the last movie failed to make any money do you think Paramount is giving PD the money for that?

[oldmanwinters]

Using Baxter Stockman and the Rat King as live-action movie villains was a Peter Laird's idea for how to do the Secret of the Ooze movie:
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=36749
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....on-second.html

[IndigoErth]

Would Triceratons be a safer bet? A big change from what the less knowledgeable movie goers are used to with TMNT, but it has the benefit of dinosaurs still being a bit of a draw and Jurassic World planning another, so... jump on that bandwagon and tweak people's curiosity with crazy looking space dinos? Kind of a mash up of Jurassic Park meets Transformers with the Turtles being the heroes of it?

Personally I'd prefer some more down to Earth stories, but if they need to do something more out there to get people's interest...

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Rat King versus Baxter Stockman makes sense in theory, but I don't think you could use very interesting versions of either character to do the story.

Think about it; reducing the Rat King to just some homeless guy who commands rats (e.g. the Fred Wolf version) is much less interesting than the crazy/not-crazy spiritual guide of Mirage or the immortal trickster god of IDW. And Baxter Stockman who is just defined by his Mouser robots is only a little better than Baxter the Fly.

It would be an interesting story, but it wouldn't serve to give much depth to either antagonist. They'd just be one-dimensional stereotypes, throwing CGI rats and robots at each other. It'd be fun to watch, but it wouldn't do much to prove that TMNT can be compelling, intellectually engrossing, and involve mature, well-developed characters. It'd just be "Cowabunga!" and "Pizza Power!" without the usual villain roster.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

I truly believe other villains can work in the main role, it just has to be done it a properly done script. Rat King vs. Baxter with the turtles caught in the middle (maybe with a leatherhead scene thrown in) could work. A post-credits scene with shredder and the foot, to tease the sequel. I think any villain could work to draw people in, so long as the marketing makes the movie look fun and exciting.

The main thing is, I want villains who are not made for movie, but pre-existing. Walker and MaxWinters are made for movie crap. While I believe The Shredder orovides the best option there are other actual villains that can be used as your concept proves.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Rat King versus Baxter Stockman makes sense in theory, but I don't think you could use very interesting versions of either character to do the story.

Think about it; reducing the Rat King to just some homeless guy who commands rats (e.g. the Fred Wolf version) is much less interesting than the crazy/not-crazy spiritual guide of Mirage or the immortal trickster god of IDW. And Baxter Stockman who is just defined by his Mouser robots is only a little better than Baxter the Fly.

It would be an interesting story, but it wouldn't serve to give much depth to either antagonist. They'd just be one-dimensional stereotypes, throwing CGI rats and robots at each other. It'd be fun to watch, but it wouldn't do much to prove that TMNT can be compelling, intellectually engrossing, and involve mature, well-developed characters. It'd just be "Cowabunga!" and "Pizza Power!" without the usual villain roster.

Not neccessarily. This could work if its an early appearance if not an introduction to them. At this point in IDW? No. Early in the run and used to help develop the characters sure.


Rat King in the 1987 cartoon needed a backstory. In fact I believed a Jonathan Crane-like origin fit him and gave it to him in my further scripts. Its interesting that Nick went with the mad scientist in an accident approach which is close to what I had in mind.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Would Triceratons be a safer bet? A big change from what the less knowledgeable movie goers are used to with TMNT, but it has the benefit of dinosaurs still being a bit of a draw and Jurassic World planning another, so... jump on that bandwagon and tweak people's curiosity with crazy looking space dinos? Kind of a mash up of Jurassic Park meets Transformers with the Turtles being the heroes of it?

Personally I'd prefer some more down to Earth stories, but if they need to do something more out there to get people's interest...

Produce one down to Earth film, and then follow it up with Triceratons and Utroms (and possibilities for the turtles to face John Bishop).

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I still hold Rat King/Baxter could work, especially with Introducing April as Baxter's assistant. And if studios will approve some of the crazier things coming out of comic book and super hero movies, I think Baxter and Rat King would get approved. No one can convince me that we need a Shreddder /origin movie to lure people in, no matter what.

Anyway, judging by recent news, we shall find out what the next TMNT movie will be soon enough...

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

I still hold Rat King/Baxter could work

No bad idea, but wouldn't such a film would have a lot of scenes taking place in the sewers.

[Shinigami]

I just want the Rat King. Just once. Even if he’s done poorly. He’s my favorite villain hands down and has way more depth even in his first mirage appearance than most other villains.

[Shinigami]

He’d make a great good bad guy too. Like he’s just creepy and crazy, but aides them in their final battle. He could always return as an enemy.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Let Baxter Stockman and the Rat King study in the same university. When Rat King carries out dangerous expierments with chemicals, he is kicked out.

He takes the Rat King title to take revenge on society. Baxter Stockman invents his mousers, and promises the police to stop the Rat King. Who can imagine Baxter Stockman's real purpose with the mousers is to rob banks and become rich?

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Let Baxter Stockman and the Rat King study in the same university. When Rat King carries out dangerous expierments with chemicals, he is kicked out.

He takes the Rat King title to take revenge on society. Baxter Stockman invents his mousers, and promises the police to stop the Rat King. Who can imagine Baxter Stockman's real purpose with the mousers is to rob banks and become rich?

We have a winner!

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I have seen more good ideas on here, than I have in any of the post-1990 TMNT movies!

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

We have a winner!

If the Rat King will brainwash Splinter, I want him to use some kind of gas (like he used on Irma and Vernon in Leatherhead Meets the Rat King). Nickelodeon's Rat King was also great.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I love the idea of Baxter Stockman and Victor Falco are Rival scientists who studied together. It would create a dynamic to tie the two villains together.

If you HAD to throw in the Origin into this movie (which I believe you don't), have the two scientists working on the ooze at the university with lab animals, and Have Hamato Yoshi be the university's martial arts instructor. There is an accident in the lab, Rat king and Baxter are affected by the ooze and flee, and yoshi rushes in to save some of the lab animals; four baby turtles. They are exposed to the ooze as Yoshi gets them out, and we all know what happens next...

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

have the two scientists working on the ooze at the university with lab animals

And let them work with strange chemicals discovered in the woods, and later it's revealed they landed there when an Utrom spacecraft crashed on Earth.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

And let them work with strange chemicals discovered in the woods, and later it's revealed they landed there when an Utrom spacecraft crashed on Earth.

Yeah, something like a quote ' this ooze is believed to have come from a downed alien spacecraft.... but that is of course preposterous!"