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Old Yesterday, 05:31 PM   #16741
Leo656
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Woman was Woman long before she got there for that specific run. She started with WCW under that gimmick in the late 80s/early 90s, then went on to much greater acclaim in ECW managing The Sandman before WCW offered her more money to jump ship and join the Horsemen.

You may sadly also know her as Nancy Sullivan-Benoit, Kevin Sullivan's real-life ex-wife and the woman Chris Benoit cheated on his first wife with (to be fair, Nancy also cheated on Kevin with Chris, but Kevin and Nancy were well-known to have an open, and highly-abusive marriage so there's nobody "innocent" in THAT story except for Chris's ex), later married, and then murdered.

She was a mainstay in the business for most of the 80s and almost all of the 90s; I'm surprised you're not more familiar with her.

She was dubbed "Woman" because she was "The Quintessential Female". I.e., "I am Woman... hear me roar" (as she'd often say in the rare event she actually cut promos). Not very silly; it was always played totally straight, particularly in that she never had any problem with physically attacking any of the male wrestlers and was always portrayed as a self-sufficient, and self-serving, Alpha Female who didn't need anyone's help. She's pretty legendary.

Really sucks what happened to her. F*cking goddamn Benoit.
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Elizabeth was totally only brought in as a desperate Nostalgia Grab back when WCW was hiring anyone who'd ever drawn a WWF paycheck. They never had a solid plan for her; in fact, she MAY have only been originally brought in as a surprise for the January 1996 Clash of the Champions and then kept around because the crowd popped. The fact that she bounced around between Savage to Flair then back to Savage then to the nWo and then to Lex Luger kind of cements the fact that they never knew what she was there for, except to look hot.

She definitely succeeded at that. She'd recently gotten new breasts when she came in, and had them re-done a few more times over the next few years until they finally let her go, so she was definitely more voluptuous than her shy, reserved, "cocktail dress" WWF persona. Not to mention the black leather and thigh-high lace-up high-heeled "hooker boots" she typically wore in her Horsemen and nWo days made her look absolutely amazing.

Shame what happened to her, too, but she developed a taste for booze and pain pills, and we all know how that ended. Sad.
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I'm pretty sure Beefcake's "Booty Man" persona was a desperate attempt to give the guy a gimmick that WWF wouldn't call their lawyers over, yet was still recognizable to fans. He came in with Hogan to WCW in 1994, and was just called "Brother Bruti" (one of Hulk's old nicknames for him) because WWF were pissy about him using "Brutus Beefcake" (even without the "Barber" nickname). That's partly why they turned him heel and re-dubbed him "The Butcher", since they figured a totally different gimmick couldn't possibly upset Vince, but they were wrong. "Butcher" was still too close to "Barber" (even though he completely changed his appearance so as not to resemble his old gimmick in ANY way), so they sort of gave up and called him "The Man With No Name" as a way to poke fun at the entire debacle on-screen. They knew it was stupid, but it's like, "What can we do? We literally can't call him ANYTHING without getting a cease-and-desist letter". Vince was really, REALLY pissy about guys leaving for WCW between 1994-1996, in case you didn't know.

It ended up being moot as his contract wasn't renewed, so he got let go, but then Hulk lobbied to get him brought back. He still needed a gimmick, so Hulk suggested that they dress him up like he looked in his very brief cameo in the film "Mr. Nanny' (the zebra tights and face paint during the wrestling flashback scenes); that was apparently okay (I guess since you couldn't even make out that it was Brutus unless you'd seen the movie), so they dubbed him "Zodiac" and stuck him in the Dungeon of Doom, where he proceeded to do absolutely nothing for a little less than a year. I got a kick out of it, but it objectively sucked.

I think the writing was on the wall that the Dungeon gimmick was about to fade out - at least in the main events; various versions of the stable hung around until 1998 but they no longer had anything to do with their original "Destroy Hogan" mission plan - or maybe Hogan just wanted more on-screen allies, so they abruptly had Zodiac do a face turn one week, stopping The Giant from beating up Hogan for no adequately explained reason. What's funny is that they worked a tiny bit of character development (if you could call it that ) into the story; Zodiac only ever said "Yes! No!" on a constant and irritating loop, but this time, as he prevented the Giant from assaulting Hogan for the 87th time, he cried out "No! FRIEND!", foreshadowing that he was turning face. Nobody noticed but me, and it was still dumb, but hey, points for effort.

The next week, he came out to make the save for Hulk and Randy against the Dungeon wearing a very bare-bones version of his familiar Beefcake attire - tassels, shredded fishnet tights, etc - and was dubbed "The Booty Man"... I guess because "Bruti" kinda sounds like "Booty" if you're drunk and/or high. It was explained that he was only a MOLE in the Dungeon of Doom, playing "Zodiac" so he could spy on them for Hogan. Which was dumb, but... eh, it made as much sense as anything else from that sh*tty angle. I assume that the legal restrictions were loosened by that point, because "Booty Man" was basically just "Beefcake" with a few minor alterations: No animal-print tights, he wasn't allowed to do "The Strut" but he WAS allowed to shake his ass - hence the stupid name - he couldn't do the Sleeper, so he reverted to his original Running Knee Lift finish, and most importantly, he wore a headband, because wearing a headband or scarf means you are now playing a brand new and totally unique character. He even cut jobbers' hair on a few house shows, but never dared to do so on TV, for what should be obvious reasons.

Ultimately, this went nowhere - there are rumors that the new gimmick was still pissing off the wrong people in Vince Land - and was scrapped when Hogan joined the nWo, and Hogan beat the piss out of him to prove a point about not needing any of his old friends. In storyline terms, this came later to be seen as something of an "initiation", as he later DID join the nWo as "The Disciple", after getting crazy roid-shredded and growing an 80-lb beard that swallowed his entire face. THAT gimmick was finally deemed "acceptable", and he kept it for the remainder of his WCW run until they finally let him go in 1999... after doing one last job for Hogan. Attaboy.
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WHEW! Anyways, there's your History Lesson for today.
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Last edited by Leo656; Yesterday at 06:09 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 06:07 PM   #16742
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Quote:
Woman was Woman long before she got there for that specific run. She started with WCW under that gimmick in the late 80s/early 90s, then went on to much greater acclaim in ECW managing The Sandman before WCW offered her more money to jump ship and join the Horsemen.

You may sadly also know her as Nancy Sullivan-Benoit, Kevin Sullivan's real-life ex-wife and the woman Chris Benoit cheated on his first wife with (to be fair, Nancy also cheated on Kevin with Chris, but Kevin and Nancy were well-known to have an open, and highly-abusive marriage so there's nobody "innocent" in THAT story except for Chris's ex), later married, and then murdered.

She was a mainstay in the business for most of the 80s and almost all of the 90s; I'm surprised you're not more familiar with her.

She was dubbed "Woman" because she was "The Quintessential Female". I.e., "I am Woman... hear me roar" (as she'd often say in the rare event she actually cut promos). Not very silly; it was always played totally straight, particularly in that she never had any problem with physically attacking any of the male wrestlers and was always portrayed as a self-sufficient, and self-serving, Alpha Female who didn't need anyone's help. She's pretty legendary.

Really sucks what happened to her. F*cking goddamn Benoit.
I did not know that Benoit's wife was involved in the wrestling business. I just know him as "that guy who's brain was so damaged by steroids caused him to murder his wife and child". I was not paying attention when he was at his height and his out of nowhere horrific crime. I was made to sit through the 2004 Royal Rumble last summer with my brother unaware Benoit would go on to win. The intention was to show me great choreography, but after what he pulled it disappointed me to see he was the winner. The way she went out and the way she was portrayed in that story-line is shameful. I feel for her. Perhaps its just a bad story for her as the one wrapped around Ric Flair's arm at the time? You make her sound like Becky Lynch.

I started with the month of February 1996 and am now in early March. I did not catch right away that Brutus Beefcake was The Bootyman. This guy never had a marketable name.
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Old Yesterday, 06:27 PM   #16743
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Originally Posted by ZariusTwo View Post
Possibly. She'd been raped in the middle east and WWE covered it up at the time.
People have been posting a tweet they saw on twitter with excerpts of her book(I think?) sharing the details of the incident. Pretty disgusting that it happened and that WWE told her to keep quiet because it could severe WWE's relationship with the US military and cost them money.

A rape is a very traumatic experience. This could have been the beginning of her depression if her cause of death is confirmed to have been a suicide. I found her death fishy as soon as the news broke it. She was pretty young and afaik not addicted to drugs or alcohol. Plus, being a woman who wrestled for a few years and then didn't wrestle or didn't wrestle much again after leaving WWE meant she couldn't possibly have done roids or taken other similar substances.

Pretty sad. Ashley was a victim of a horrendous crime and the scumbag who did it got away with it.
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Old Yesterday, 06:45 PM   #16744
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Woman never wrestled, but she was far more physically hands-on than any female manager at the time, or probably since, so her character was quite revolutionary, as she debuted back in the era when women mostly stood at ringside crying whenever their man got beat up. She was at one point most notorious for viciously beating Sandman's opponents with a kendo stick during the ECW run and things of that sort. For whatever reason, she wasn't often very physically involved during her latter-day WCW run of 1996-1998; I do believe there were some issues with Turner's Standards & Practices division regarding male/female violence, so it's possible that she was asked to not be as physically involved as she used to be.

She notoriously ended up being the "trophy" of sorts in the years-long Benoit vs. Kevin Sullivan feud, otherwise known in the business as "The time Kevin Sullivan accidentally booked his own divorce". I mean, the guy was the booker, and he wrote an angle where Chris and Nancy were having an affair... forced them to travel together and act suspiciously together as if they really WERE having an affair, despite the fact that they barely knew each other or had anything in common... and then, Chris and Nancy just said "F*ck it" and started sleeping together for real. All because Kevin wanted the angle to look "real", even to the people in the locker room who completely didn't give a sh*t. Not to besmirch the dead, but "_____ is sleeping with Nancy" wasn't shocking news no matter whose name was in the blank; as mentioned, she and Kevin had a notoriously open marriage and they each had many other partners. The only shocking things about it at the time were 1. That Sullivan would be that stupid as to book this angle, and 2. That Benoit would cheat on his then-wife since he was known as a very devoted husband and father. But I guess you can't share a hotel room with someone for months and expect nothing to happen. People are only human.

At one point Nancy/Woman was also known as the sexiest woman in wrestling; the "Sunny" of the late-80s/early-90s, if you will. Not to be a morbid creep since she's dead, but if you search "Nancy Sullivan bikini" or similar, you'll get an idea of why she was at one time so notorious despite never ever wrestling a match.

She was quite an important figure in the history of the wrestling business, and was well-loved by seemingly everyone in the entire business. She had about as horrible an ending as anyone could get, which is a real shame because I've never heard anyone say a single negative thing about her.
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Also, steroids don't cause brain damage. Chris Benoit suffered several dozen concussions over a period of several years, was battling crippling depression due to his serious neck injuries and impending forced retirement, and was heavily abusing painkillers, amphetamines, and GHB. His personal records show that he was taking an estimate of around 100 pills a day of the strongest opiate pain meds available around the time of his death (his personal physcian was taken to court and later lost his medical license; I believe he also served jail time). Furthermore, GHB can cause severe psychotic breaks and hallucinations; it's primarily a "date rape drug" (it's a dirty little secret that almost all wrestlers in the 80s/90s had a GHB stash for when they'd meet women on the road), but in high doses it can have similar effects to PCP.

Benoit's autopsy showed massive degenerative brain trauma, and incredibly high levels of opiates, amphetamines, GHB and alcohol in his system at the time of death. Any or ALL of that, individually but especially when combined, can and will lead a person to snap and kill someone, and possibly not even remember it. There are a hundred reasons why Benoit did what he did - none of which excuses it - but it's a medical fact that steroids do not cause brain damage, nor do they force anyone to suffer a psychotic break and murder people.

I'll never defend what he did, because it's indefensible, but people need to have their facts straight or else there's no lesson to be learned. The guy was an asshole, a drug addict, and he cared more about wrestling than he did about real life. End of story. If he'd had better values, three people would still be alive. But steroids had nothing to do with it. That was just an easy headline for the newspapers and talk shows. The real story was FAR more disgusting and tragic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowler View Post
People have been posting a tweet they saw on twitter with excerpts of her book(I think?) sharing the details of the incident. Pretty disgusting that it happened and that WWE told her to keep quiet because it could severe WWE's relationship with the US military and cost them money.

A rape is a very traumatic experience. This could have been the beginning of her depression if her cause of death is confirmed to have been a suicide. I found her death fishy as soon as the news broke it. She was pretty young and afaik not addicted to drugs or alcohol. Plus, being a woman who wrestled for a few years and then didn't wrestle or didn't wrestle much again after leaving WWE meant she couldn't possibly have done roids or taken other similar substances.

Pretty sad. Ashley was a victim of a horrendous crime and the scumbag who did it got away with it.
I can't believe another woman was allegedly involved in it. I've actually heard many cases of women facilitating the rape of another woman, but I can't wrap my f*cking head a round it. There's some pure f*cking evil in this world, man.
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Old Yesterday, 06:51 PM   #16745
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Originally Posted by Leo656 View Post
Woman never wrestled, but she was far more physically hands-on than any female manager at the time, or probably since, so her character was quite revolutionary, as she debuted back in the era when women mostly stood at ringside crying whenever their man got beat up. She was at one point most notorious for viciously beating Sandman's opponents with a kendo stick during the ECW run and things of that sort. For whatever reason, she wasn't often very physically involved during her latter-day WCW run of 1996-1998; I do believe there were some issues with Turner's Standards & Practices division regarding male/female violence, so it's possible that she was asked to not be as physically involved as she used to be.

She notoriously ended up being the "trophy" of sorts in the years-long Benoit vs. Kevin Sullivan feud, otherwise known in the business as "The time Kevin Sullivan accidentally booked his own divorce". I mean, the guy was the booker, and he wrote an angle where Chris and Nancy were having an affair... forced them to travel together and act suspiciously together as if they really WERE having an affair, despite the fact that they barely knew each other or had anything in common... and then, Chris and Nancy just said "F*ck it" and started sleeping together for real. All because Kevin wanted the angle to look "real", even to the people in the locker room who completely didn't give a sh*t. Not to besmirch the dead, but "_____ is sleeping with Nancy" wasn't shocking news no matter whose name was in the blank; as mentioned, she and Kevin had a notoriously open marriage and they each had many other partners. The only shocking things about it at the time were 1. That Sullivan would be that stupid as to book this angle, and 2. That Benoit would cheat on his then-wife since he was known as a very devoted husband and father. But I guess you can't share a hotel room for months with someone for months and expect nothing to happen. People are only human.

At one point Nancy/Woman was also known as the sexiest woman in wrestling; the "Sunny" of the late-80s/early-90s, if you will. Not to be a morbid creep since she's dead, but if you search "Nancy Sullivan bikini" or similar, you'll get an idea of why she was at one time so notorious despite never ever wrestling a match.

She was quite an important figure in the history of the wrestling business, and was well-loved by seemingly everyone in the entire business. She had about as horrible an ending as anyone could get, which is a real shame because I've never heard anyone say a single negative thing about her.
------------------

Also, steroids don't cause brain damage. Chris Benoit suffered several dozen concussions over a period of several years, was battling crippling depression due to his serious neck injuries and impending forced retirement, and was heavily abusing painkillers, amphetamines, and GHB. His personal records show that he was taking an estimate of around 100 pills a day of the strongest opiate pain meds available around the time of his death (his personal physcian was taken to court and later lost his medical license; I believe he also served jail time). Furthermore, GHB can cause severe psychotic breaks and hallucinations; it's primarily a "date rape drug" (it's a dirty little secret that almost all wrestlers in the 80s/90s had a GHB stash for when they'd meet women on the road), but in high doses it can have similar effects to PCP.

Benoit's autopsy showed massive degenerative brain trauma, and incredibly high levels of opiates, amphetamines, GHB and alcohol in his system at the time of death. Any or ALL of that, individually but especially when combined, can and will lead a person to snap and kill someone, and possibly not even remember it. There are a hundred reasons why Benoit did what he did - none of which excuses it - but it's a medical fact that steroids do not cause brain damage, nor do they force anyone to suffer a psychotic break and murder people.

I'll never defend what he did, because it's indefensible, but people need to have their facts straight or else there's no lesson to be learned. The guy was an asshole, a drug addict, and he cared more about wrestling than he did about real life. End of story. If he'd had better values, three people would still be alive. But steroids had nothing to do with it. That was just an easy headline for the newspapers and talk shows. The real story was FAR more disgusting and tragic.



I can't believe another woman was allegedly involved in it. I've actually heard many cases of women facilitating the rape of another woman, but I can't wrap my f*cking head a round it. There's some pure f*cking evil in this world, man.
Yes. Ashley even said she couldn't believe it. But tbh, a lot of women have said "we're often our worst enemies" about their own gender. Just another proof how being a woman by itself doesn't make you morally superior to a man. There's rotten people of both genders. That's why I also faceplam when people say if women ruled the world there'd be less war and corruption. It's like they aren't aware of several sh*tty female politicians and rulers throughout history.
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