TMNT #113 Preview and Discussion

[lonewarrior20]

so, think karais gonna have a limp now? her leg did get mangled pretty good. its gonna be interesting when present lita meets future lita and here's hoping the weasel sisters don't attack koya since she was with hob that time in 103.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Ugh... I wrote an estensive argument for why that probably won't happen. In case you aren't able to comprehend it, here's a simplified version of it:

1. No indefinitely running series will ever set the future in stone, that would prevent it from actually going on indefinitely. The Terminator franchise is infamous for ignoring the obvious static timeline of the first movie.
2. The future Lita told about is way too detailed to ever be allowed to happen. It stinks of being a rotten red herring.
3. A cure is not the only way mutant town could be written out of the story. One possible explaination I'm pulling out my ass now is "Ch'rell promise them a cure when he tells them of the Utrom connection to the mutagen, then 90% of the mutants step through a portal to Burnow island and suffocate". It's idiotic to assume you can only write them out by curing them.

That last one I feel like I had to explain over and over again. What the hell makes people believe a story can only ever go in one of two directions? Even if it does happen, it can still be written out some way. Am I really the only person here (writers involved with TMNT excluded) who has studied creative writing or even written fiction for that matter? Different drafts of the same story can end up radically different with just a few rewrites, and that's not even bringing sequels, prequels or other derivatives.

That isn't going to stop it from having more mutants in NYC. Future Lita told of a possible future. Some parts of it have the potential to happen. And that's the fact more mutants will eventually show up. Many years from now the City will be filled with them.

[CyberCubed]

I mean it doesn't make sense for there to be more mutants to take over NYC unless there's more mutagen bombs. The mutations are not a disease that spreads, if you're a mutant you can't infect other humans for them to become mutants too. So all 8 million people of NYC being mutated makes no sense unless Hob makes more Mutagen bombs and blows up all of NY but that's unlikely.

You can tell Hob somewhat regrets the mutagen bomb, if you can pay attention to his dialogue and expressions on the panels, mutant town didn't turn out like he wanted it to. Most mutants don't even listen to him and find the Mutanimals to be enforcers and everyone else just doesn't care about him. So I don't think he would do it again.

[hypered1]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I mean it doesn't make sense for there to be more mutants to take over NYC unless there's more mutagen bombs. The mutations are not a disease that spreads, if you're a mutant you can't infect other humans for them to become mutants too. So all 8 million people of NYC being mutated makes no sense unless Hob makes more Mutagen bombs and blows up all of NY but that's unlikely.

There's always procreation.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by hypered1

There's always procreation.

Wouldn't their DNA be way too ****ed to allow anything like that to happen?

[Allio]

If it worked for Nina Tucker and her dog.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by hypered1

There's always procreation.

Mutants will get horny eventually.

[lonewarrior20]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Mutants will get horny eventually.

spring is coming. the question is who's gonna be twitterpated?

[Mutant Ninja Anole]

We had this discussion already, but mutagen annihilates the laws of physics and beats up everything we know about how biology should work and sends it home crying to mommy. It even apparently can affect the reincarnation of souls. It’s firmly in the ‘sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic’ category. As such, mutants being able to have families is barely worth noting.

We’ve seen mutant overrun New York in multiple potential futures now, going back to the time traveling mini series. We’ve also seen it prophesied in Shredder’s mini that he will lead an army of mutant against Krang. My personal theory is this still happens, just with a more ‘noble’ Shredder leading an army to save the earth.

Really, mutant overrun post-apocalyptic futures are weirdly common in TMNT. Archie, the RPG game, even the Nickelodeon show.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Mutant Ninja Anole

We had this discussion already, but mutagen annihilates the laws of physics and beats up everything we know about how biology should work and sends it home crying to mommy. It even apparently can effect the reincarnation of souls. It’s firmly in the ‘sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic’ category. As such, mutants being able to have families is barely worth noting.

We’ve seen mutant overrun New York in multiple potential futures now, going back to the time traveling mini series. We’ve also seen it prophesied in Shredder’s mini that he will lead an army of mutant against Krang. My personal theory is this still happens, just with a more ‘noble’ Shredder leading an army to save the earth.

Really, mutant overrun post-apocalyptic futures are weirdly common in TMNT. Archie, the RPG game, even the Nickelodeon show.

Yeah its very common. Like how do you explain the sudden growth of the mutant population? Its possible another Mutagen Bomb was unleashed at some point in that timeline. Or maybe somebody contaminated the water supply with mutagen in New York.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Really enjoyed Mike interviewing Mona on the radio, and seeing Hob beaten down by the criticisms. It's interesting... despite him deliberately acting like a villain for so long, I like that part of him has grown to want wider acceptance.

And daaaaaaaaaaaaaamn.

I'd love a mini-series focusing on this terrible future. It looks and sounds kickass. Make it happen, IDW!

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Really enjoyed Mike interviewing Mona on the radio, and seeing Hob beaten down by the criticisms. It's interesting... despite him deliberately acting like a villain for so long, I like that part of him has grown to want wider acceptance.

And daaaaaaaaaaaaaamn.

I'd love a mini-series focusing on this terrible future. It looks and sounds kickass. Make it happen, IDW!

I love the idea of Mikey interviewing other fellow mutants in Mutant town and discussing things about the city. Like him talking to Mona about setting up some non violent protest at Old Hob's HQ. It seems like they are serious about getting Sally Pride elected in there own Mutant Town election.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Mutant Ninja Anole

We’ve seen mutant overrun New York in multiple potential futures now, going back to the time traveling mini series. We’ve also seen it prophesied in Shredder’s mini that he will lead an army of mutant against Krang. My personal theory is this still happens, just with a more ‘noble’ Shredder leading an army to save the earth.

Really, mutant overrun post-apocalyptic futures are weirdly common in TMNT. Archie, the RPG game, even the Nickelodeon show.

For the longest time, I've been predicting (more often to myself than here in the forum) that the endgame of this comic will be some form of uneasy alliance between the Splinter Clan (including Saki), the Foot Clan led by Karai, the Purple Dragons, Hob and the Mutanimals, Bishop and the EPF, the Burnow Island aliens (Utroms and Triceratons including Ch'rell, bear with me on this one because he seems way more reasonable than Krang/we were led to believe), Stockman and Leatherhead against Null, Maligna (and maybe Krang) and their henchmen bent on taking over the planet.

The forging of that alliance alone would fill up an entire issue and be a wondrous thing to behold in terms of interactions between the various factions who all have reasons to hate each other but must come together for the common good. They all share Earth as their home, after all. Think the meeting in the Dragonpit from Game of Thrones, with Stockman of course playing the part of Cersei and going behind everyone's back to try to cut a deal with the enemy, as he does. It might not shake out this way, but it's how - at this point in time - I see it ultimately playing out and nothing so far has disproved my notion.

[Dejablue]

Considering all the praise this comic is getting in this thread I find this tweet Sophie made kinda funny: https://twitter.com/mooncalfe1/statu...24588374523904

I've seen nothing all that critical yet this little tweet has a small gang of people giving Sophie asspats for what has to be...one of the worst story arcs this comic has ever gotten? Thats how I feel at least. Reading this is like watching a small child in floaties trying to swim in a pool. They paddle with all their might but aren't going anywhere.

Is she vilifying this forum for sympathy? Or is there another big TMNT forum out there? Probably not as her defenders make note that the people here are old fossils. I mean they're not wrong on that front. (Also they name this place directly and she responds so...yeah.)

But anyway I had high hopes for this arc but as it goes on my hopes get lower. I wanted a slower arc and boy howdy did I get it. Too much on the slow side unfortunately. The plot ground to a complete halt without much going on to justify it. And now we've got a time travel plot that could have/should have hit off several issues ago but ultimately is going to be pointless as we all know these future predictions won't happen.

I can't be the only one tired of the turtles standing or sitting around talking and doing nothing all the time am I? Why have they suddenly put all their trust in Sally Pride after one ill-fated help group? Why are they relying on the democratic process to stop someone they see as a dictator? The turtles should just go over to Mutanimal HQ and kick his ass. They should have done that a long time ago. If Hob was a dictator, peaceful protest wouldn't do any good.

I like Hob but this has been a big waste of his character. He's been moping throughout most of this, and without really seeing him, he is now almost regretting his actions. But from what I can tell nothing has substantially changed since the start of Mutant Town til now to change his mind. So all this chest thumping about free and fair elections, while already borderline unnecessary in a ninja turtles comic, is already de-fanged and de-clawed before it can even begin because Hobs is already coming off his high and regretting his actions, making all this political postulation a freakin waste of time, paper, and ink. Did you see how he looks? Not like a man ready to meet the challenge of his detractors. He looks 9 seconds away from tucking his tail between his legs and asking the turtles for help.

And oh boy Jennika. I used to really like her. I don't like her as much. I miss the days when she was an emotionally stunted, loyal, yet level headed chunin to Splinter. Now she is almost a totally different person, again for no reason. She was trained in the Foot Clan of all things. Her master killed Shredder. I don't understand why learning about her future self killing Karai is that big of a deal to her. The kiss between her and Sheena comes out of nowhere and feels unwarranted.

Oh I also wanted to like Mona Lisa. I thought she'd be something useful, anything more than a mouth piece. Seems not.

Lita, a character we've only just met is now suddenly super important and in a spectacular move of bad writing via exposition vomit, she destroys any tension or mystery about what the dark future holds for our heroes by spelling it all out. Plus shipping uwu. And don't even get me started on how stupid Leo x Koya is. Plus I thought Koya was in a relationship with Shark-dude.

How did the turtles or any of their allies not notice the giant helicopter crash within the borders of Mutant Town? Have they become that sedentary?

[Andrew NDB]

I wonder what she read here that was so terrible? The criticisms I'm seeing about the book seem fairly even and level-headed.

Let me see if I have this right, though. They recently added a 6th Turtle now, and are also doing stuff about fair elections and climate change?

[Dejablue]

There was only 1 quip about climate change. But the forward momentum of this plot is, I kid you not, staging a peaceful protest against Hob.

And also Lita time traveled to warn them that Jennika killing a sworn enemy will destroy the future.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Dejablue

Is she vilifying this forum for sympathy?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I wonder what she read here that was so terrible? The criticisms I'm seeing about the book seem fairly even and level-headed.

They are. Campbell is fishing for sympathy/compliments, which is a classic sign of deep insecurity and inability to handle ANY criticism, even if it's fair and even-tempered. Right along with "I really don't care! It was a joke! I don't even pay them any attention!" Sure.

That's why they "quit" the forum multiple times making a big public declaration about it, and YET, whenever I log on, guess whose name I see logged in? Every. Single. DAY. "I don't even look there, though! It's just a joke, I don't pay them any mind! I don't know HOW my name shows up on the front page as 'active' multiple times a day!" To paraphrase Roddy Piper, "Well, SO FAR we know she's a liar!"

And I actually think it's cool that the creators deign to post here, or even lurk. BUT. Historically, whether it's Peter Laird or Sophie Campbell or Ant Ward or any number of other TMNT staff, we've seen one big thing in common from most of them: they love this place when everyone is kissing up to them, but they REALLY can't stand it when ANYONE isn't in romantic love with what they're doing. It's sad.

I mean, I get it. I'm a creative person, and when you work hard on something and people find fault with it, that can sting. But come on, if you're a "professional" you should be used to that, and if you SAY over and over and over again that you are used to that and "don't care", then either 1. Stop coming here at all or 2. Stop making "jokes" about how nasty this place is to drum up attention and sympathy. It's needy and rather pathetic. You'd never catch Denny O'Neil doing that on a Batman forum.

My opinion of Campbell's work is Mostly Neutral leaning towards "Not a Fan". And that's nothing personal, it's "fine" for what it aims to be but ultimately it's not really my taste. As a PERSON, though... the stuff I've seen the last few months to a year has me rolling my eyes a lot. "I'm totally secure in myself... really! I just throw shade at the ONE or TWO people on a message board who don't like my work because I think it's FUNNY! It's totally NOT so everyone on my Twitter can White-Knight me! I don't want or need that! I swear!"

And like Deja and Andrew have already said... who was "negative" in the first place? Two, maybe three people? Plus that flip, off-the-cuff remark I made in reply to ChosenOne earlier, which Ninjinister took WAY too seriously (and apparently some of Sophie's "fan club did as well... aye-yi-YI!), but holy sh*t. It seems like MOST people here actually like the comic and it's only a handful of (vocal) dissenters. That warrants all this passive-aggressive "People are being mean to me on the forum again" stuff? Nobody is! JESUS!

I've never met Sophie Campbell. And I probably never will. But I get a strong feeling they're the kind of person who would get a new haircut, and twenty people would say it looks awesome, like TWO people would say that they liked it better before, and those one or two people who didn't love it would have her up tossing and turning half the night having an anxiety attack. And full disclosure, I have an anxiety disorder so I know how that can be. But c'mon. If it's THAT bad, either stay in the echo chamber full-time and take a permanent "leave of absence" from places where you might find criticism, or... I'unno, do something else.

If one or two or even three "negative" comments about your work (amidst a comparable sea of POSITIVE comments) sends you running to "rally the troops" on your Twitter, then I'm sorry, you need to call your shrink more. There's no shame in that, either, I been there. But that level of anxiety and insecurity is NOT healthy and a person who behaves that way needs to work on their coping skills. Not just SAY, "I don't even pay attention" when that's a blatant lie.

Nobody's trying to hurt your feelings, Sophie. MOST people here like the book; a couple don't, and that's okay too. No need to blow the f*cking Horn of Gondor every time the acclaim isn't universal. Be a professional. And cut the "poor me" stuff, it's not a good look.

And if the stuff I said to ChosenOne is what set this Twitter junk all in motion when I wasn't even specifically TALKING about Sophie Campbell, more just reaffirming the point HE (ChosenOne) was trying to make while also agreeing with it... man, I don't even know where to start with that.
--------------------

Also, I can't help but notice that I'm pretty "Twitter famous" when I don't even have Twitter. F*ck's THAT about? Some idiot's holding up my exchange with Ninjinister as if it has anything at all to do with Sophie Campbell or the two or three people here who don't like the current arc. The two are unrelated. Meanwhile, Ninjinister and I have known each other for about 700 years so if he gives me sh*t or I give him sh*t that's kinda not the business of anyone who isn't here, thank you very much. Min'ja bidness!

I can't help it, one of my pet peeves is people who talk about me but can't ever be bothered to say anything TO me. Granted, very often when people DO come at me directly, it's dumb sh*t (although not always), but I can at least respect that. I get random PMs here and on FB sometimes, and sometimes with no context it'll just be someone I don't know saying, "You seem like a real asshole." And it's like "Okay, great, thanks for paying attention, thanks for taking the time out of your day to bring me this urgent news." Like, what am I supposed to say? BUT. At least they took their shot. That takes a certain amount of courage, and I can respect that.

But I don't respect people who don't know me just saying to someone else, "Lookit THIS guy!" and yet they can't be bothered to actually confront me if they have such a big problem with the way I "behave". I'm sorry, but if you're not going to actually say something to a person's figurative "face", then you don't GET to have an opinion about that person.

Two types of people I absolutely can't stand: Liars, and Cowards.

I mean there's LOTS of people I can't stand but those are the two types that are relevant to THIS conversation.

I don't know, man.

OH. And also, "Go f*ck your own ass" is NOT homophobic and I don't know where that person throwing shade at me on Twitter ever even came up with THAT idea. It's literally just some Snotty Sh*t To Say to someone you're annoyed by, like "Go play in traffic" or "Go pet sh*t with the chickens." No sense of humor, these kids today!

I mean sh*t, if *I* could reach I might never leave the house again. "Homophobic", they sez. Good LORD, some people need to go outside more. Once they figure out how to NOT put their skin on inside-out. Obviously.

[ChosenOne]

To paraphrase a backstabbing little bitch: I liked this comic. I still like this comic. Been sticking with it since 2011 through thick and thin, so I think I'm entitled (and I hate this term) to find fault with the occasional jarring, unnecessary line. Not everything's going to stick the landing. It is what it is. Sorry, not sorry.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I wonder what she read here that was so terrible? The criticisms I'm seeing about the book seem fairly even and level-headed.

Let me see if I have this right, though. They recently added a 6th Turtle now, and are also doing stuff about fair elections and climate change?

I think it has to do more with this forum in general rather then any criticism. Lately the place has become toxic and it was drawing many off from going to the forum.

[Mutant Ninja Anole]

Of all the things in this particular comic to cause this level of drama, the throw away gag about global warming might have been 5 or 6 places down the ladder of what I would expect. Holy cow.