Jennika Miniseries starts in February!

[Cloudrunner]

Originally Posted by Ninjinister

Piss off, incel.

That's not the way adults settle their differences.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by Ninjinister

Piss off, incel.

Married with kids, actually. Did you have a point to make, or are you just incapable of forming any real argument? Do you think Jennika is anything other than a marketing stunt, feeding off of the Hillary campaign, pussy hat womens march, and in general a response to the political climate of today? She is, and she's feeding a dangerous narrative.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, c'mon, Ninjinister. I'm not saying TommyT is right (I'm also not saying he's wrong, but true discussion on this wouldn't be... this), but you're better than this. Let's not just play to the tropes, you've been around here a long time.

[TommyT]

The thing is, everyone knows that comics were written for men, more often than not, with white heroes. It IS what happened, and it might really make a good chunk of characters from the past harder to relate to if that isn't you.

But to take that specific feeling and exploit it, as a cash grab, is rotten. I mean, that's morally bankrupt, in the same way that Valentines day is morally bankrupt. This is band-aide solutions to a bigger issue, that isn't really going to do much more than become a wedge issue, and effectively, drive dollars over the short term into the publishers hands. Its not healthy for TMNT at all.

maybe a female turtle is a dream come true, but I'm still saying it's a rug, they're going yank, as soon as it falls out of fashion, which is not how legacies are built.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't think at all the creation of Jennika at IDW, particularly as a new female TMNT is coming from any bad place. If I had to solely plan out 100+ issues of a TMNT thing... eventually I'd probably hit that spot as a possibility. Now, personally, I'd avoid it, as maybe the biggest thing that makes the TMNT resonate with me is their loneliness. They're the last of their kind, when they breathe their last breaths, that's it... kaput. It's sad but it's what it is. It gives them a unique property in every story they're in.

But that's not at all what IDW TMNT is. It's not what it's pretended to be. We have tons of mutants in it. There was even a "mutagen bomb" recently, apparently, and there are even more widespread mutants. So that whole "alone" aspect is out the window, as has been even before that. Why not a female TMNT, in this particular universe, then? I don't hate this universe, but I get it.

I mean, I worry what the larger Viacom/Paramount media might try and mine from things and in what shape, but that's about it.

[TommyT]

They can create a whole battalion of mutant turtles, if they like, but I just can't even begin to see it from any other view than, "we need more female representation". I also don't actually see that as bad either, but she'll never be one of them, because she had a whole human life first, and that in and of itself separates her out, makes her different. Sure, you can tell that story, but it opens the door - Casey could now become a turtle, April, Baxter... they can all be Turtles with a magical blood transfusion.

I kind of hate that in and of itself. but not to get off track - this story goes in one direction from here on out; how do you get Jennika's humanity back. So, this is transient, and she will revert at some point, just like Donnie didn't stay dead, but the actual narrative, is that being a turtle, is not preferable, to being human. Parallels can be drawn to things like, "slumming it is fun for a while, but eventually you'll come to your senses." or, "I helped out in Africa for a summer once" or "I raised money for a charity by going on a diet three years ago."

The Turtles, never lost a life to live the one they do now. This is who they are, and all they really know. Perhaps the "what if" has come up, or maybe they have dreams of being regular turtles, who knows, but that is a major difference, one that keeps her on the outside of the crew, no matter what color they have her wear (those panels were the height of cringe).

and I disagree with respect to stories. 100 books is a lot, but the female turtle is not a must do, it's a hail mary play, reserved for desperate times, as I said before.

[spookycookies]

Originally Posted by TommyT

The Turtles, never lost a life to live the one they do now. This is who they are, and all they really know.

Except they DID all live a human life previously in japan with their mother that has a driving impact on all of them.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by TommyT

She’s riding the wave of “feminist appeal” or dare I say femsploitation.
Will. Not. Last.

I don't see it that way. That risk is there, yes, and I won't deny a small part of me is concerned about how next year will play out and whether or not Jennika sort of hijacks the comic, but fundamentally I don't see it that way. A female turtle isn't necessarily taboo, on the contrary: it's one of those things that's been done (spectacularly bad) before and that a more qualified team of writers will always be interested in taking a crack at, see if they can make it work better than the first time around. Much like how almost every Spider-Man animated show eventually has a go at the Clone Saga, and seeing as how we're in a comic book forum, I don't think I need to go into details about the reception that got in the comics... And so far, so good. The only element I could possibly see as a misstep was the timing of her mutation. It should've got its own arc instead of being smack dab in the middle of City at War. But what's done is done. Mind you, even Jennika hijacking this comic from the OG Turtles for a time wouldn't be anything new, most other characters have done it too at some point.

In short, a see only a character being trated as every other character before her has been treated. Hardly cause for doomsaying.

[Vegita-San]

Wow. Ninjister and a few others going full NPC. who'd have thunk it?


I'll say this. Jennika as a new female character HUMAN was rather interesting. Just like Having an Adult Angel as Nobody and Apolex was.

but making her a female turtle? Big mistake.

and not just because Venus came before her.

As Andrew said, part of the appeal of the turtles is their isolation. giving them more mutant turtles makes them a bit less unique. Unless the Turtle is SO Differently designed that it doesn't feel like a turtle. Like Tokka or 2012 Slash.

Making her a female turtle just kind of reeks of NPC ness. And the creator of the idea basically saying 'We just had to have a female turtle' kind of confirms that. IDW has been accused of riding identity politics before. but I never really saw it until now.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

Wow. Ninjister and a few others going full NPC. who'd have thunk it?

I subscribe to The_Donald on Reddit and despise all things SJW because equality comes naturally, it's self-evident, ergo it shouldn't and doesn't need to be shoehorned in anywhere. It's the first time anyone's called me that. A novel experience, certainly.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It's interesting, and inescapable, how much debate is arising over Jennika.

Like Andrew, I like the Turtles best as loners. Mirage "Sons of the Silent Age" is where it's at.

But. Because this is IDW, and loner mutants was never in the cards, I'm glad to have a female Turtle.

But Venus was better than Jennika, simply because a human turned turtle is... well, frankly, it reeks like a lot of bad fan fiction. Even though it's the most interesting thing that's happened to Jennika since she took off the red Assassin mask and introduced herself.

Caveats aside, I think Jennika will develop into a better character, and I honestly didn't think she'd just "fade away" after a few story arcs. But she has never been shown to actually be a sister to the four Turtles. Venus was in a terrible show, but she had tons of potential to be revived and improved. So...

We'll see.

[Coola Yagami]

I mean it's kinda hard to give Jennika any crap considering that IDW has been a mish/mash of previous incarnations and characters. They made the Neutrinos bad-ass and basically made Angel and Nobody into one person. Venus was a thing and Jennika is basically Venus done right. You'd have a stronger argument if there was never a female Turtle (including that one time April was mutated) and Jennika was the first female Turtle ever, but that wasn't the case.

I don't see Jennika as any sort of agenda or whatever modern day political ******** you guys want to cram in here that doesn't belong in a TMNT comic, I just see her as Venus done right.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

I mean it's kinda hard to give Jennika any crap considering that IDW has been a mish/mash of previous incarnations and characters. They made the Neutrinos bad-ass and basically made Angel and Nobody into one person. Venus was a thing and Jennika is basically Venus done right. You'd have a stronger argument if there was never a female Turtle (including that one time April was mutated) and Jennika was the first female Turtle ever, but that wasn't the case.

I don't see Jennika as any sort of agenda or whatever modern day political ******** you guys want to cram in here that doesn't belong in a TMNT comic, I just see her as Venus done right.

I can't see her as Venus done right because she feels more like Jennika done wrong.

Jennika has been around for 50 issues, give or take, and she's been boring to me for pretty much that entire run, mainly because she felt very shoehorned. She's close to the Turtles, but we never saw it. She hooks up with Casey, because forced love triangle. The only interactions she has had that felt genuine and interesting were with Splinter and the Foot Clan.

Venus done right would be a mutated female turtle, with no human history prior to mutation. But that's my $0.02.

[Cloudrunner]

My biggest problem with Jennika is that she's going to push other characters further into the background. Still waiting for that moment where Alopex actually interacts with someone from the Foot Clan. I mean FFS she's a straight up traitor to the Foot that almost killed (subjective) Shredder before Karai intervened, and yet she has had zero interaction with either of them after the fact. But Jennika meets Karai for the first time and Karai is just super ****ing interested in her.

It's just that... Jennika's "popularity" is obviously manufactured. It comes from the fact that she got a bunch of articles written about her. And while us as readers know she's her own character... people looking from the outside do not. The ones writing the articles are excited because she represents a similar concept to race/gender swapping a male character. "Destroying the straight white male status quo" or whatever ********. Literally the only reason they care is because they see it as introducing a female character in a male dominated space. But we already had characters like that in this run. And they were better written, at least before they were abandoned to be sideline characters. And I hate to see Jennika take center stage because those characters will get pushed even further back.

My biggest worry is that once Jennika's faux popularity wanes, she's going to be paired up with the other abandoned female characters. I believe one of the users here called them "Harold's Angels." Christ, what a horrible idea. Yeah lets just team up all these characters we've stripped of any relevance to the point where their only defining characteristic is the fact that they're girls. How ****ing exciting.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

I mean it's kinda hard to give Jennika any crap considering that IDW has been a mish/mash of previous incarnations and characters. They made the Neutrinos bad-ass and basically made Angel and Nobody into one person. Venus was a thing and Jennika is basically Venus done right. You'd have a stronger argument if there was never a female Turtle (including that one time April was mutated) and Jennika was the first female Turtle ever, but that wasn't the case.

I don't see Jennika as any sort of agenda or whatever modern day political ******** you guys want to cram in here that doesn't belong in a TMNT comic, I just see her as Venus done right.

I can almost agree with you hear, except, IIRC, the creator of Jennika said they 'just had to have a female turtle'. no other reason.. they just 'had to have one'.

That reeks of SJW ness to me. just like Kathleen Kenendy said the leader of the next ST had to be female. just because. no other reason needed.

[lonewarrior20]

You know maybe we should be happy that tmnt is still being made. Sure it may not be what we're always wanting but it's still surviving, evolving, and branching off from what has been. People make comparisons to the marvel and dc universes but here's the thing what If those two guys had quit after the first issue. Hell if the internet would have been accessible and they saw the way people are fighting these days they might have. So be happy or leave the fandom if you hate what's been done. Or get a job at idw and do your own series. I mean all that has come after that first series is technically fanficton brought out into the limelight.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by lonewarrior20

You know maybe we should be happy that tmnt is still being made. Sure it may not be what we're always wanting but it's still surviving, evolving, and branching off from what has been. People make comparisons to the marvel and dc universes but here's the thing what I'd those two guys had quit after the first issue. Hell if the interent would have been accessible and they saw the way people are fighting these days they might have. So be happy or leave the fandom if you hate what's been done. Or get a job at idw and do your own series. I mean all that has come after that first series is technically fanficton brought out into the limelight.

Can you imagine what would've happened to characters like Lara Croft, Buffy Summers or Sarah Connor if they had been created nowadays? Yikes.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by spookycookies

Except they DID all live a human life previously in japan with their mother that has a driving impact on all of them.

Well... maybe my German shepherd in the next room is a reincarnation of Bob Holloway who used to run the ice cream shop 50 years ago. That doesn't make him human.

[CyberCubed]

I love the yellow bandana choice. For some reason a Turtle with a yellow bandana has always been overlooked but seeing the art yellow really goes well with green skin.

[Allio]

I mean yellow was the best choice as it matches the primary/secondary colors of the others. The only other color that could have worked was green and the turtles are already green.