Jon Watts to direct MCU Fantastic Four film

[TurtleTitan97]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarvelStu...00479063994368

[neatoman]

Oh, cool!...
...
... It's going to replace Black Panther 2, isn't it?

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Oh, cool!...
...
... It's going to replace Black Panther 2, isn't it?

No, BP2 is still happening, but they aren't recasting Chadwick.

Hopefully they can get FF right this time... (I realize the previous efforts weren't Disney).

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

No, BP2 is still happening, but they aren't recasting Chadwick.

Hopefully they can get FF right this time... (I realize the previous efforts weren't Disney).

I didn't necessarily mean "BP2 is probably cancelled" more like "BP2 is probably getting pushed further down the line and FF is taking probably it's initial place".

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Now THIS, I give a $hit about. But it's the Spider-Man guy, so... what, is Reed Richards gonna have a mentor in every movie?

Is Sue Storm gonna go by SS or something lame?

I don't even give much of a $hit about Spidey, but I'm feeling salty.

[sdp]

Could Disney actually make the Fantastic 4 "cool"? The general audience just doesn't seem to be into them, this is including "comic fans". They're awesome explorers, it'd be a shame if they just take Galactus, Silver Surfer and Doctor Doom and leave the F4 to die if their movie fails like they did with the inhumanoids.

[Autbot_Benz]

Originally Posted by sdp

Could Disney actually make the Fantastic 4 "cool"? The general audience just doesn't seem to be into them, this is including "comic fans".

what are you talking about. Have you been in forums with comic fans all people could talk about was how they couldn't wait for FF and X-men to come back to MCU. Look at Twitter right now everyone is super excited for the movie.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by sdp

Could Disney actually make the Fantastic 4 "cool"?

Disney? No. But Feige and Marvel Studios should be able to, if Disney largely stays out of their hair.

[Leo656]

I remain unconvinced that there are a huge number of people salivating over the Fantastic Four.

To most of the movie-going audience, they're just a corny rip-off of The Incredibles. Yes, I know that's backwards. But that's how most of the people who go to see these movies sees the situation.

I mean, let's be real... aside from their Dr. Doom being thoroughly "meh", the very first F4 movie was pretty spot-on. I mean, that's the story, those are the characters. It was about as good as anyone can ever do with that material and those characters, without changing it so much it becomes something else. It wasn't perfect, but it more or less was. Doom aside, it's about as "straight" of an adaptation as there's ever been done. It's ALMOST 1:1 with the comics.

....And in spite of all that it's STILL one of the f*cking worst comic book movies I've ever seen in my life. Second one was very, very, very slightly better in a few ways but also worse in others. The reboot... well, we see what they did there. That was never gonna be any good.

The Fantastic 4 is f*cking corny. I'm sorry, I know they have their fans. Why, I don't know. I just don't think the material is there to make a really "good" movie out of. It's a dumb premise. The only reason to even do them is to introduce Dr. Doom and Galactus into the MCU. Those are top-tier villains. The F4 themselves are f*cking C-listers, though. They are absolutely no one ever's favorite super-hero team. Human Torch is kinda cool. Reed Richards is comics' second (or third) most interesting Stretchy Guy, and you know you suck when Plastic Man is better than you are. Thing is kinda alright, but he's just a "Does his dick look like the rest of him?" punchline to most people. Sue is hot, but she's goddamn useless.

I know Duckie's gonna yell at me, like she does every single time I say this stuff. But I don't care. The F4 are some of Marvel's least-interesting characters of all time. I don't think they've ever had one single "iconic" story outside of their origin, and their villains are the only interesting thing about them. Everybody loves Doom, everybody loves Galactus... nobody "loves" the Fantastic 4. They tolerate them, so that they can have Doom and Galactus. That's all it is.

I mean, we'll see. They've had three at-bats and they've struck out three straight times as far as making an F4 movie that wasn't lousy. Disney might have "The Midas Touch" but you'd have to be some kinda warlock to make the F4 not-corny in a movie setting.

Then again, I think ALL the MCU movies are kinda f*cking corny so maybe they're perfect for this, I'unno.

[ZariusTwo]

I need to see if there's been any updates to the "Fantastic Four: Great American Novel" website. That guy's fountain of knowledge and trying to weave a whole tapestry of Marvel history around how much the FF's story meant to it was insane.

I love the characters, and even Slott, who I normally despise, is doing a decent job with them at the moment in the comics, it's arguably his best work since his early days on Amazing Spider-Man, and infinitely better than his Iron Man 2020 dross.

However, it's almost impossible to put together a decent movie or animated series featuring them. Their problem is they function so well as a family that any attempt at drama with them feels forced and unnecessary, and you don't actually want to see them in too much trouble

I suppose given the low key stakes of almost everything in the MCU (Russo Brother movies as the exception), they fit right in though.

[Galactus]

Definitely give it a chance but I think Watt's strengths will be in the family aspect but I've seen little in his Spider-Man movies to show he can successfully pull off the grand scale action the FF needs but we'll see.

It's only recently that I got around to watching Josh Trank's 'dark' FF movie. It was just as horrible as expected but the idea of giving them an edge wasn't wrong. In the early comics the Thing is supposed to truly scary and deeply resentful of Reed's arrogance turning him into a monster and Johnny was a true rebel without a cause. I think showing that would be great before settling into to being a big rocky teddy bear and the surrogate brother that likes to tease him.

As for Reed he's one of the most important characters in the entire Marvel Universe. Throughout the 60s and 70s if ever there was any gathering of heroes he was the one that was naturally picked to lead. Throughout most of the Lee/Kirby run he's just as much a man of action as lab guy. He is partially based on Doc Savage and he should always be like an intrepid explorer in 50s pop culture. Yeah his stretchy powers look silly in live action and there's little you can do not make it look at least a little silly but his main weapon is his mind.

[Sumac]

FF4 is too "primitive" and goody-goody for its own good.
It is hard to make something serious out of them, but we'll see. If Marvel was able to make Guardians of Galaxy to be good, so I assume they have chops to make even FF4 good.

[Galactus]

How is the FF too goody-goody? They were the first comic book super hero team with interpersonal issues and real world problems. You can argue that other Marvel properties teams and expanded on this and made the FF seem tame by comparison but it all started with the FF.

I suspect that the movie wont go for the more edgy version of the characters as depicted in the early issues and go for more of a the light family sitcom version the characters settled into eventually. That's a valid take and one that even the 2000s movies got right. I expect the MCU movies will be similar but much better depiction of the villains.

I'm not sure what is primitive about them either. There is a reason why most of Marvel's big bads started off as FF villains.

[Leo656]

This is my all-time favorite Fantastic 4 story, no question:

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Galactus

How is the FF too goody-goody? They were the first comic book super hero team with interpersonal issues and real world problems. You can argue that other Marvel properties teams and expanded on this and made the FF seem tame by comparison but it all started with the FF.

My knowledge of FF4 comes mainly from cartoon and movies, so maybe in the comic books they are more nuanced.

My impressions was that they are pretty boring and their powers are kind of generic.

[sdp]

The comics have always loved the Fantastic 4, they somehow write them in such ways that despite not looking as interesting at first sight they had the most awesome stories. I don't know if the general audience can change their minds and if not left with great writers F4 might just seem like a generic super hero team but they're more than that, they're the explorers of the Marvel Universe.
Counting they're being introduced late into the game I think they'll have things difficult for them, I also don't think Antman will ever be as big as if he had been in phase 1, I mean Hawkguy is getting more love than Antman and that's sad.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Sumac

My knowledge of FF4 comes mainly from cartoon and movies, so maybe in the comic books they are more nuanced.

My impressions was that they are pretty boring and their powers are kind of generic.

I think it's kinda like Superman. That character came and popularised almost everything about the superhero genre but it was expanded on by literally every other superhero. Decades on Supes looks plain and generic by comparison.

Fantastic Four is basically the same deal. The solified a lot of the formula which made Marvel's characters so successful. The lead characters arrogance causing something bad to happen and they feel a sense of responsibility, a gruff but noble monster, teenage angst and real world issues as a backdrop. It was all very fresh and new but then came the Hulk and Spider-Man and Wolverine and the X-Men and s on who did a lot of these things too arguably better.

Still FF operate on a grander scale than most of those characters hence why their villains and mythos gets absorbed into the wider Marvel Universe. Heck a lot of their characters have had a huge presence in the MCU even without the FF themselves. Watchers, Skrulls, Ronan the Accuser

Originally Posted by sdp

The comics have always loved the Fantastic 4, they somehow write them in such ways that despite not looking as interesting at first sight they had the most awesome stories. I don't know if the general audience can change their minds and if not left with great writers F4 might just seem like a generic super hero team but they're more than that, they're the explorers of the Marvel Universe.
Counting they're being introduced late into the game I think they'll have things difficult for them, I also don't think Antman will ever be as big as if he had been in phase 1, I mean Hawkguy is getting more love than Antman and that's sad.

Do them 'right' and I don't think it doesn't matters when they debut.

I think they are uncomfortably caught in between what their big fans want. A lot of of them thing they should be very old school super heroics to the point they want Brad Bird to make an animated movie but the moment that happens they complain it's too camp and cheesy and not respecting the characters enough.

Personally I think the '05 movie got the characters right enough but I'd prefer they had a bit more edge to them this time around. Reed should feel slightly more guilt and sense of responsibility for ruining his friends lives and Ben should be a bit resentful that he's become a monster. I doubt that's the route they'll go, their characterisation will probably be more inline with the previous movies but I don't think they'll shy away from the big scale action the series requires...like Doom wont be an evil business man or Galactus or cloud out of fear the audience wont get it.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I need to see if there's been any updates to the "Fantastic Four: Great American Novel" website. That guy's fountain of knowledge and trying to weave a whole tapestry of Marvel history around how much the FF's story meant to it was insane.

I actually just checked that site again since this news. He makes a few interesting points but he's absolutely insane with ideas like Reed being a skrull or Skrull milk being the source of most Marvel super heroes powers Sue being Johnny's mother etc is some perfect madness.

[Leo656]

I mean, that was kinda my earlier point, though. Like jokes aside the 2005 movie mostly "got them right" and it was still terrible, partly because it was so damn cornball. Sure, they got Doom wrong, but I doubt that would have "saved" the movie even if they'd gotten him right. You could still drown your nachos in all that cheese.

But like, you kinda can't do it any differently or it's not even them anymore. And then Fant4stic tried to "give them an edge" and that was only one of a hundred reasons why THAT movie was also terrible from a different direction.

I kinda feel like a person's hope for the potential of an F4 movie has a lot to do with how tolerant they are of "funny" super-hero movies. And I, personally, just haaaaaaaaaaaate that stuff. But I feel like you kinda can't even do the Fantastic 4 without making it "dumb". So what might be authentic to the characters and premise would by definition still be anathema to a "good movie".

[Galactus]

The 2000s movies mostly got the four right but there was still things they could have done to make them better. Still I don't think the characterisation of the FF themselves was the problem.

I empathise somewhat with the studios predicament. A super villain that is also the monarch of a fictional country might have seemed a bit too 'out there' for an audience still getting used to super hero movies so the evil business man angle is understandable as was linking his origin to FF themselves. Still when he became Doctor Doom he should have been a lot more grandiose and their final battle should have been much bigger. For a comic property that is supposed to be about big scale action a low stakes brawl in a street is a huge let down. There was no big pay off even for the turn your brain off and just enjoy it crowd.

Same with the sequel. Most of the stuff in that movie is forgivable except for the whole Galactus as a cloud crap. Again I get they thought that a giant guy with a goofy helmet may be a bit too much for audiences back then but a cloud???. That's the best they could do?

[Andrew NDB]

I've never really read any Fantastic Four comics, though I've heard from enough people who do whose opinions I value that I believe there's something to them. Now, I actually enjoyed the first Fantastic Four movie with Chris Evans and all, for the most part. Taking that sort of family/fun vibe but utilizing a comic book accurate Dr. Doom and Galactus (instead of an effete pretty boy and a cloud)? I mean, I could see that being pretty awesome. Some people have suggested the "hook" this time could be that it's a "family out of time"... as in, a family from the 1950s accidentally time-travels to the 2020s and becomes the Fantastic Four as we know them and I could definitely see that working.

Just please, please... no checkboxes with "this is the gay/lesbian one, this is the black one, this is the genderqueer one" stuff. We know who the Fantastic Four are and that isn't them.