2018: Are you glad that Nickelodeon bought the TMNT 9 years ago?

[Andrew NDB]

"Image Comics" isn't really a publisher. They're just an umbrella for publishers.

[Leo656]

Yeah, pretty much.

Never been a big Image guy, personally. They kinda screwed things up bad for everybody way back in the day and I'm still kinda not over it.

[Xav]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Now, watch them one day pull a "Halloween" and one day do a direct sequel to the 1990 film, using guys in suits instead of that horrible CGI vomit. Never happen, but boy, would I feel stupid. And grateful, obviously. But yeah, that's about what it would take to get me back, and that's (probably) not happening.

The sad thing is that's exactly what was panned before the sale.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Tough call.

I know everyone wants TMNT to be a Marvel property because of the Daredevil connection and "mutants", but they already have a billion mutants so I feel like the TMNT in the Marvel universe would have absolutely nothing to do, or make them special.

I kind of feel like they'd fit in like 1% better in DC, because they've generally been better about creating a world that's more PG-13 and R rated and they don't shy away from violence, BUT, it would have to be under one of their sub-imprints that's not connected to the main DCU. Again, the main universe is too crowded for them, but I do feel that of the two "big" companies, DC would be more apt to lean away from the cartoon trappings of the brand. I have a feeling Marvel would rather lean into those things because "That's what everyone knows."

I feel like neither company could resist the temptation to fold the TMNT into the main universe at some point, even if that shouldn't happen. If they could avoid doing that, though, I think DC would be a little bit closer to Mirage-ish in tone, while Marvel would probably be pretty similar to what IDW is doing.

Dark Horse probably would've been the best bet, all things considered, but eh, that's not what happened. Fun to think about sometimes, though, I guess.

Right. I'm always tempted to say I'd like to see the TMNT at Marvel, but it's actually quite a conundrum trying to adequately place them in such a complex, shared universe.

At this point, I feel there's nothing to lose, and I'd be excited to see what they come up with. It couldn't be the Mirage-like mythos we know. The Marvel Universe is just too intricate for and involved for that.

While I'm sure they could preserve the elements we love about TMNT, such as isolation, revenge, family, you couldn't avoid the trappings of the Marvel Universe. I think we could still start with the foundation laid by the first few arcs of Mirage Volume 1, but it'd obviously need to go it's own direction from there. Surely we'd see one of them become part of the X-Men, or the turtles have to battle it out with "The Morlocks" over territory in the sewers. You might even see a Triceraton join the Guardians of the Galaxy.

Now, all of this actually sounds quite exciting to me, but we'd have to be ready to embrace a new type of TMNT mythos. And honestly, that's not too hard a pill to swallow these days.

Leo, I see what you're saying about DC potentially being a better fit for the turtles we know and love. It's difficult for me to articulate, but while the DC Universe is massive, it still feels like there are pockets of isolation there, in which the TMNT can thrive.

Either way, I'd take either of these over Nickelodeon. Nickelodeon deserves some credit because this could have turned out so much worse. They have come at the franchise from a place of respect, for the most part, which I do appreciate.
But the TMNT joining Marvel or DC brings me back to the A.C. Farley penciled issue "Halls of Lost Legends", a story teasing the potential for the TMNT to one day reach mythic-status, and I feel that this would be an earned step in that direction for them.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I'm assuming Peter didn't think about selling Kevin the rights. Though Kevin probably wouldn't have been interested or likely didn't have the pockets for them.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

"Image Comics" isn't really a publisher. They're just an umbrella for publishers.

Don't they own Spawn, though?

Originally Posted by Leo656

Yeah, pretty much.

Never been a big Image guy, personally. They kinda screwed things up bad for everybody way back in the day and I'm still kinda not over it.

The Volume 3 comics, you mean?

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Worse than Rise and Platinum Dunes movies?

Seriously? How could it get worse? How are we not already in the Worst Case Scenario?

A live action adaptation of Rise of the TMNT?

Originally Posted by Leo656

Don't get me wrong, these are Dark Times, but it's statistically impossible for TMNT to ever reach the heights of the 1988-1991 period, so really, there's nowhere to even GO but down, no matter what they do.

It's easy to get into a mindset that TMNT is getting worse and worse because different iterations do things we don't like but we as fans need some perspective on this: These aren't Dark Times. Nick has a new TMNT show on at the moment which will last a couple of years at least, the IDW comic still has some years left in it as well as all the merchandise opportunities to continue fan interest. Do you want to know what the Dark Times have been? 1999-2002 when there was no TMNT around. Volume 4 was just starting up but that was it, nothing. We should count ourselves lucky as have something at the moment without any gap. Ghostbusters has been off worse in my opinion.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

The Volume 3 comics, you mean?

I think he means more like how they got the public looking at comic books again, but then squandered it with infighting, shameless money-grabbing gimmicks, and flooding the market with well...



They have gotten much better since those days, though. They now publish creator owned comics in a wide variety of subjects and styles. But, it's hard not to think of them as the "X-TREME 90s" comic company.

[Leo656]

Tetsu: Yeah. that's exactly it. A bunch of pencillers got uppity, once upon a time, and decided that since society was becoming functionally illiterate, and "nobody reads comics for the stories anymore, they just look at the pretty pictures," that THEY were suddenly the most important part of the puzzle and decided to start their own company. And that company's books did a GREAT job in showing everyone what a bunch of books written by people who could "only" draw (and in some cases, not even that) would look like. They almost killed the business with their nonsense, and in some ways we're still digging out of the hole they dug. Shame on them.

F*ck McFarlane, F*ck Liefeld, and even f*ck Jim Lee, who I actually like a lot, for starting this "more seam lines/everything needs to look like armor" business. F*ck 'em. Right in the goddamn ear.
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pferreira: We're just not going to agree on this, because I'm not convinced this brand needs to keep going. Especially if it's just going to keep deteriorating and being pulled away from what it was created and supposed to be, in exchange for selling more toys to a new generation of nose-pickers. That sh*t isn't what's really important.

I have a lot of conversations with my friends about stuff like this. Some of my favorite things, for example, are Speed Racer and Dick Tracy. Those are "dead brands"; they exist, technically, but no new content is being generated on a massive scale (I'm aware the Tracy strip is still published in limited markets, and... well, the content kind of proves my point that some things need to die with grace) and nobody's screaming for a comeback. That is absolutely JUST FINE with me. The last few Speed Racer reboots were horrifying. The newer Tracy strips have them bringing back all the Space Age stuff everyone hated and they'd spent 30 years trying to get away from. It's awful when people try and force them into an era in which they don't belong, once they've stopped being relevant. They need to be left alone, so they can maintain their purity. What was once, is golden. What came after... holy hell. No f*cking bueno.

I never wanted that from TMNT, but here we are. I'll take 1999 any day over what's on my screen nowadays, thank you.

I know most TMNT fans are of the, "I just don't want it to go away! I need new toys! I mean, my KIDS need new toys!" attitude, but frankly, when everything objectively sucks, and you're tricking yourself that it doesn't because you just like the brand so much, it's time to give up the ghost.

Ghostbusters is a great example. Loved Ghostbusters. Probably too much. After seeing what "they" think is the right direction, I never want to see anything new again. It was two movies and a cartoon, THAT'S IT. I don't WANT new content, because the people making it are proven assholes. If it's only gonna get worse, what's the point? "Well, at least we can buy toys?" I. Don't. CARE.
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As for Eastman... I own "Bodycount". He can stay far away from "writing" TMNT for all eternity, as far as I'm concerned.

Time for an even more unpopular opinion: I think Eastman and Laird were only any good when they were in the same room together with a big bag of weed. Separately, I think they're each lousy writers from different angles, but still equally pretty bad. I haven't liked a single thing I've read from them, individually, about TMNT, but for entirely different reasons.

[Prowler]

I dunno how anyone can possibly think Eastman and Laird were not on something when they came up with the Ninja Turtles concept.

[Leo656]

I've heard them say things like they were "Up late watching bad TV", and that always sounded like code, to me.

Like, what college-aged roommates just sit around at 1am watching "bad TV" without being drunk or high or both? They were absolutely smoking weed until video evidence surfaces proving otherwise.

Sh*t, ain't mad at 'em for it. Just sayin'.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I've heard them say things like they were "Up late watching bad TV", and that always sounded like code, to me.

Like, what college-aged roommates just sit around at 1am watching "bad TV" without being drunk or high or both? They were absolutely smoking weed until video evidence surfaces proving otherwise.

Sh*t, ain't mad at 'em for it. Just sayin'.

Eastman definitely looks like the type who did some stuff when he was younger . In fact I'd not be surprised if he occasionally smoked a joint still either. Peter probably doesn't do any of that stuff nowadays but maybe he got a bit adventurous when he was 18-22 years old

[Leo656]

Laird's getting older, he almost definitely has a prescription for the normal aches and pains that come with that.

He's an old hippie from Massachusetts, of course he still partakes. He probably just doesn't want to advertise it because it's nobody's business and some TMNT fans, especially, are quite childish about that sort of thing, not fully understanding it.

At the very least, I'm sure he's a fan of CBD oil. But again, I'd wager he's a "prescription puffer." And there's nothing wrong with that.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Laird's getting older, he almost definitely has a prescription for the normal aches and pains that come with that.

He's an old hippie from Massachusetts, of course he still partakes. He probably just doesn't want to advertise it because it's nobody's business and some TMNT fans, especially, are quite childish about that sort of thing, not fully understanding it.

At the very least, I'm sure he's a fan of CBD oil. But again, I'd wager he's a "prescription puffer." And there's nothing wrong with that.

Perhaps that would explain Laird making April a drawing. He was the one who came up with that, wasn't he? Like WTF.

[Leo656]

Oh, absolutely.

"But DUDE, like... don't you GET IT? Like, they're ALL 'just drawings', right? And like, it's the 'MAGIC' that brings them to life, y'know? Like, the 'magic' of imagination, and wish-fulfillment, and UNICORNS, man! Little kids, man, a child's wish... that's the MAGIC that brings these drawings to life! It's so meta!"

".......But why does April have to f*ck a cockroach?"

"........................What? What the hell are we even talking about?"

........Is exactly how that conversation went, I assure you.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Yeah. Yeah. Whatyagonnado, though?

Can't nothin' be done until they start actually losing money by the barrel, and this fanbase will buy anything, so... I'unno.

One day, in the far future, the TMNT film series will be used in film schools as an example of how it looks to get something right exactly ONCE, and then spend the rest of eternity not even bothering to try. Real shame. That and the old games are about all I bother with, anymore. It is what it is.

True that. Shame Eastman or Laird couldn't buy back the TMNT to flip it to DC or Dark Horse. Neither of those guys shy away from hardcore stuff, and hell, we might get some new storylines.

I'd also say with the marketing emphasis on the little love grubs, isn't that how self centered brats are created? 'Oh you are the only thing that's important, everything must cater to you and your entertainment.'

And reading onwards, sometimes I see the 'Buh buh buh duh toys!' 'It's gotta be for my kids!' I agree with you on that too. I wanna roll my eyes when I see that, I don't mind some toys but there's got to be more then that. I swear, some WOULD rather the franchise remain mainly about cartoons and plastic toys from China (with a periodic bone thrown to the older fans in the form of a rare comic) then have it grow into something more befitting it's Mirage origins.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Oh, absolutely.

"But DUDE, like... don't you GET IT? Like, they're ALL 'just drawings', right? And like, it's the 'MAGIC' that brings them to life, y'know? Like, the 'magic' of imagination, and wish-fulfillment, and UNICORNS, man! Little kids, man, a child's wish... that's the MAGIC that brings these drawings to life! It's so meta!"

".......But why does April have to f*ck a cockroach?"

"........................What? What the hell are we even talking about?"

........Is exactly how that conversation went, I assure you.

Absolutely 100% true. No fvcking chance it went down any other way.

[Leo656]

Metalwolf: Yeah, I'm always a little creeped out by how people try to indoctrinate their kids into liking what they liked. My parents tried that sh*t with me at first, a little bit, but thankfully, after that they stayed out of it.

"I want to share the things I enjoyed with my kids" is code for, "I'm getting older, and I hate it, and I feel a need to try and 'connect' with younger people, to prove I'm not old and out of touch." It reeks of desperation and vanity. Let kids get into things on their own. Obviously, parents buy the toys, but nobody forced He-Man or Superman or Ghostbusters on me, I liked it, I wanted it, so they supported me in it. A lot of parents talk openly about "sharing" TMNT with their kids before they're old enough to know which side of the playpen smells the worst, and that, to me, is questionable sometimes. Not always, but sometimes.

I don't have kids and never will, but my niece was young once. She found TMNT all on her own, on YouTube. Neither I nor her Mom had ever put it in front of her, she just came across it as a 10-year old and was like "Hey, what's this about? Do you guys remember this?" So for a while, she was a fan, and was thrilled to have the movies on DVD. Then she grew out of it and I have no idea if she bothers with it anymore. Probably not. Does it upset me? Eh, not really. It's one less thing to talk about, one less thing we have in common, but she's her own person.

Anyways. Some people's reasons for wanting this property to last forever are highly suspect. A lot of it seems to have to do with not wanting to let go of childhood.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by Anarchistguy

Not at all...

Thanks to that I since then moved onto other things

Agreed. I still like a lot of the old stuff (we were lucky to get the 2003 cartoon and 1990 film imo), but there is so much choice in tv shows, films, etc. nowadays that whether I like or dislike anything new tmnt related won’t bother me.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Metalwolf: Yeah, I'm always a little creeped out by how people try to indoctrinate their kids into liking what they liked. My parents tried that sh*t with me at first, a little bit, but thankfully, after that they stayed out of it.

"I want to share the things I enjoyed with my kids" is code for, "I'm getting older, and I hate it, and I feel a need to try and 'connect' with younger people, to prove I'm not old and out of touch." It reeks of desperation and vanity. Let kids get into things on their own. Obviously, parents buy the toys, but nobody forced He-Man or Superman or Ghostbusters on me, I liked it, I wanted it, so they supported me in it. A lot of parents talk openly about "sharing" TMNT with their kids before they're old enough to know which side of the playpen smells the worst, and that, to me, is questionable sometimes. Not always, but sometimes.

I don't have kids and never will, but my niece was young once. She found TMNT all on her own, on YouTube. Neither I nor her Mom had ever put it in front of her, she just came across it as a 10-year old and was like "Hey, what's this about? Do you guys remember this?" So for a while, she was a fan, and was thrilled to have the movies on DVD. Then she grew out of it and I have no idea if she bothers with it anymore. Probably not. Does it upset me? Eh, not really. It's one less thing to talk about, one less thing we have in common, but she's her own person.

Anyways. Some people's reasons for wanting this property to last forever are highly suspect. A lot of it seems to have to do with not wanting to let go of childhood.

Did you ever notice that there is also a lot of these types not wanting stuff to change too much or evolve further? That seems to go hand in hand with this.

But yeah, my own parents didn't really try to introduce me too much to their own interests, save for Beatles and trying to teach me a little bit of German. My main interests were (and mostly still are) Transformers, He-man, Legend of Zelda, TMNT and Voltron. Plus Thundercats, GI Joe and the Mario cartoon.

[Leo656]

You and I, it seems, have much to discuss.